Protests Around The World

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080619/fuel_protests.html

Maybe some protesting would help our plight and the airlines against rising fuel costs

Another good video fact or fiction you decide. Its long but worth watching

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147

 

[FWAAA]

From the first link:

In Madrid, thousands of farmers brought traffic to a halt on the capital's busiest road to demand lower diesel tax to help cushion the blow of higher fuel costs and low producer prices.

"This is the last straw. If good spring rain hadn't arrived this year and last, we would already have gone bust," said sugarbeet farmer Evaristo Ortega. "The price of diesel and fertilizer is impossible to bear."

Didn't the British truckers and motorists stage huge protests a few years ago over their high fuel taxes? At the time, our dollar gas caused them great envy, and my recollection (which may be faulty) is that Blair might have relaxed some of their fuel taxes as a result.

I remember it as How come those yanks don't tax themselves into $5/gal gas?

Turns out we didn't have to. Give the market a few years and we have $5/gas without the insane taxes the Europeans have suffered for decades.

 

[jimntx]

Give the market a few years and we have $5/gas without the insane taxes the Europeans have suffered for decades.

Maybe so. But, in return for those "insane" taxes, the Europeans have an extensive public transportation system, bullet trains that can get you city center to city center much faster than by air, and no need for the average person to own a vehicle unless they live outside an urban area--which granted, ain't all that prevalent in Europe--or they accept the higher cost of private transportation. It's not like the taxes and costs for owning a car were secret.

Because of cheap gas, we have moved housing further and further from workplace areas. We are now paying the price for that lack of foresight. I have a number of friends in Europe from my days with Texaco. Most of them walk to work or have a 15 minute or less bus or subway ride.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Maybe so. But, in return for those "insane" taxes, the Europeans have an extensive public transportation system, bullet trains that can get you city center to city center much faster than by air, and no need for the average person to own a vehicle unless they live outside an urban area--which granted, ain't all that prevalent in Europe--or they accept the higher cost of private transportation. It's not like the taxes and costs for owning a car were secret.

Just because it works in Europe does not mean it should be copied and work in North America. Personally, I'll take my North Americcan lifestyle over the European way each and every time.

 

[FWAAA]

I agree completely with your points, jimntx.

I have long believed that we should have raised our federal gas tax over the years so that we, too, might have enjoyed better transit infrastructure, less sprawl, less pollution, less climate change and fewer cars clogging our roads. But politicians of both stripes think they know better as McCain and either Obama or Hillary - I don't remember which one - want to give us a tax holiday from our $0.18/gal federal gas tax. Sheer lunacy.

Should have been upping it by a dime or a quarter a year for many years, so that Americans would have become accustomed to expensive fuel and might have made different energy choices over the years (like where to live, how far to drive, what type of vehicle to buy, whether to demand real mass transit and to use it if available, etc). We're a great country but we certainly have our failings.

 

[The Foreigner]

Just because it works in Europe does not mean it should be copied and work in North America. Personally, I'll take my North Americcan lifestyle over the European way each and every time.

Well the prices have gone up over here in England, I just paid £1.30 litre = $9.84 a US gallon for Diesel, Gas is a few cents less about $9.60, the grass is not always greener on the other side! lol If I wanted to take a train to London a 35 mile trip it wil cost £14= $ 28usd one way and will take 1 hr 15 min if lucky usually takes longer. Still is nice living here, just expensive :down: & High Taxes

 

[1Conehead]

Well the prices have gone up over here in England, I just paid £1.30 litre = $9.84 a US gallon for Diesel, Gas is a few cents less about $9.60, the grass is not always greener on the other side! lol If I wanted to take a train to London a 35 mile trip it wil cost £14= $ 28usd one way and will take 1 hr 15 min if lucky usually takes longer. Still is nice living here, just expensive :down: & High Taxes

Maybe A tea party is in order. <_<

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

Just because it works in Europe does not mean it should be copied and work in North America. Personally, I'll take my North Americcan lifestyle over the European way each and every time.

I'd agree in most cases, but not this one. I'd happily ride a train or subway to work every day. Or just to get around, for that matter. The rail infrastructure in many European cities amazes me. Not that any part of the US comes close, but transit options are the one (and only) thing I miss about living on the east coast.

 

[Bob Owens]

Maybe so. But, in return for those "insane" taxes, the Europeans have an extensive public transportation system, bullet trains that can get you city center to city center much faster than by air, and no need for the average person to own a vehicle unless they live outside an urban area--which granted, ain't all that prevalent in Europe--or they accept the higher cost of private transportation. It's not like the taxes and costs for owning a car were secret.

Because of cheap gas, we have moved housing further and further from workplace areas. We are now paying the price for that lack of foresight. I have a number of friends in Europe from my days with Texaco. Most of them walk to work or have a 15 minute or less bus or subway ride.

You left out college tuition, universal health care, 6 weeks of vacation plus at least one holiday a month, (if they cant think of a good reason for it they simply call it a bank holiday), generous pensions and other stipends for the elderly for things like fuel, electricity and phone service.

Sitting down with one of my European relatives it actually came out that I paid more "taxes"than he did after calculating in the fact that I have to fund a large part of my own health insurance, pay for my kids college, work more hours and have to pay property tax regardless of whether or not I have income. I Ireland there is no real estate tax. So yea, consumption taxes are high in Europe but not only can they control the amount of taxes they pay through conservation but they get most, if not all of it back through services and entitlements. Most of our taxes go towards corporate welfare and imperial warfare and we are left to fend for ourselves on what the government doesnt confiscate.

 

[Bob Owens]

I'd agree in most cases, but not this one. I'd happily ride a train or subway to work every day. Or just to get around, for that matter. The rail infrastructure in many European cities amazes me. Not that any part of the US comes close, but transit options are the one (and only) thing I miss about living on the east coast.

I would guess that public transportation in NYC proper is as extensive, reliable and affordable as anything in Europe. Unfortunately thats not the case as you get away from the city. I'd glady use mass transit to get to work but it would add around 4 hours to my day and even with $4 gas cost more than driving.($10 a day just to go from Jamaica to the airport!)

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

You left out college tuition, universal health care, 6 weeks of vacation plus at least one holiday a month, (if they cant think of a good reason for it they simply call it a bank holiday), generous pensions and other stipends for the elderly for things like fuel, electricity and phone service.

Sitting down with one of my European relatives it actually came out that I paid more "taxes"than he did after calculating in the fact that I have to fund a large part of my own health insurance, pay for my kids college, work more hours and have to pay property tax regardless of whether or not I have income. I Ireland there is no real estate tax. So yea, consumption taxes are high in Europe but not only can they control the amount of taxes they pay through conservation but they get most, if not all of it back through services and entitlements. Most of our taxes go towards corporate welfare and imperial warfare and we are left to fend for ourselves on what the government doesnt confiscate.

This is just my opinion, but here it goes:

1) higher education (post-secondary) is not a right but a priveledge
2) If the government in the US ever gets to run health care the level of service would be equal to the local DMV, at best.
3) In the USA I'm rewarded for my hard work, which is not as much as others in my field who are more drive, but then I work at my own pace. In Europe I would be punished by high taxes on my income to subsides the incomes of the lazy who have decided to rely on the government.

So thanks but no thanks to EU standards. There are some nice things about EU (I have relatives and property there too), but I would not trade the American lifestyle for EU in a million of years.

 

[Cosworth]

1) higher education (post-secondary) is not a right but a priveledge

This idea is part of the problem at least in my opinion. Higher education should be free to anyone who can maintain a cert GPA. Society benefits from an educated society. I have no idea what you define as a 'privilege' who who is deserving of said privilege ( I hope it is not based on money) but anyone who wants to go to school and who can prove that the deserve it (GPA) should go free. The benefit to society will be paid back ten fold.

 

[AAStew]

This idea is part of the problem at least in my opinion. Higher education should be free to anyone who can maintain a cert GPA. Society benefits from an educated society. I have no idea what you define as a 'privilege' who who is deserving of said privilege ( I hope it is not based on money) but anyone who wants to go to school and who can prove that the deserve it (GPA) should go free. The benefit to society will be paid back ten fold.

I don't know if he mean't that pertaining to the USA. I know that in the majority of Europe and S. America, if you are fortunate enough to recieve your baccalaureate, your profession is chosen for you as far as University Education. Should you be one of the privelaged to be granted this "public" education, you must study what is chosen for you by your Bac instructors and administrators. You may appeal their decision, but usually to no avail. The majority of students are groomed for vocational educations and apprenticeships between the ages of 14 and 16.
There is no incentive to work in Europe as it is virtually impossible to rise above your "class". In the US if you are willing to sweat, you will prosper. If not you, your children.
In the US, if you have healthcare, you have options on treatment. In Europe and other government run health systems, you take what is given you unless you can afford to go the private route. Our problem here is with the greedy insurance and drug companies....Again corporate greed. Perhaps that is where the reform should be.
I will take the USA above any other nation's system. As am immigrant (I was 4), I am so thankful for what this country offers. As a flight attendant who travels all over the world, ditto.

 

[delldude]

This idea is part of the problem at least in my opinion. Higher education should be free to anyone who can maintain a cert GPA. Society benefits from an educated society. I have no idea what you define as a 'privilege' who who is deserving of said privilege ( I hope it is not based on money) but anyone who wants to go to school and who can prove that the deserve it (GPA) should go free. The benefit to society will be paid back ten fold.

So who pays for the professional student's 'entitlement' program?

 

[MMB]

AASTEW -

I have an uncle who would agree with you.
He is a geophysicist. He was born in Iowa, got his bachelors in Colorado and his graduate degrees in Europe. He lived most of his life in London, his wife was born in London, and his kids were born in London. When he retired, they moved back to the U.S.