Quote Of The Day

[TWU informer]

Lets not forget how the government dictates that workers must continue to work even after all the delays that the RLA gives to the airlines have been used up.

[post="287655"][/post]​

Very true Bob,

But Oneflyer accused you of being confused by "free market economy" talk.

I am confused about the airline industry "free market" also!

I am waiting for Oneflyer to dispense with the Bob Owens attacks and explain the airline industry "free market" to us so that I will no longer be confused during these debates. B)

Come on OneFlyer, I am confused too, please educate me on the airline industry free market economics you speak of?

 

[777 fixer]

The point is we took pay cuts to make the oil men richer. We should have let the industry and the economy collapse and put the blame on the oil companies instead of bankrupting ourselves to keep the airlines flying.

[post="287547"][/post]​

Yes Bob that would solved everyones problem.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yes Bob that would solved everyones problem.

[post="287776"][/post]​

And what did taking pay cuts accomplish?

 

[TWU informer]

I take it that OneFlyer cannot give us the example of "free market economy" in the airline industry?

 

[eolesen]

I take it that OneFlyer cannot give us the example of "free market economy" in the airline industry?

[post="287909"][/post]​

I can. Outsourcing. Those who are free to do it seem to be thriving. Those who aren't free to do it seem to be struggling to break even.

 

[Bob Owens]

I can. Outsourcing. Those who are free to do it seem to be thriving. Those who aren't free to do it seem to be struggling to break even.

[post="287918"][/post]​

And which airline is not free to do it? AA has had language that permits outsourcing since the 1950s.

 

[Boomer]

Don't waste your time, the free market economy confuses Bob.

[post="287640"][/post]​

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Please explain exactly how the airline industry is an example of the free market economy?

 

[TWU informer]

I can. Outsourcing. Those who are free to do it seem to be thriving. Those who aren't free to do it seem to be struggling to break even.

[post="287918"][/post]​

Hmmmm, now that's a new twist.

AA claims we are breaking the trend and bringing work in house - PROFIT.

TWU claims outsource at NWA and UAL is out of control - LOSSES.

Please explain your despicable lie further.

 

[Oneflyer]

Please explain exactly how the airline industry is an example of the free market economy?

Passengers are given the ability to choose from a wide variety of options and prices to get from point A to point B.

Whoever can generate the financial capital can gain entry to the market and provide service (with limited exceptions) to whereever they want to at whatever price they want to charge.

Are there government rules and regulations that restrict the industry, of course. But, in general, those rules apply to all airlines equally.

 

[Oneflyer]

I can. Outsourcing. Those who are free to do it seem to be thriving. Those who aren't free to do it seem to be struggling to break even.

I don't necessarily agree with this statement at all. In only very few situations have airlines has been able to show that by outsourcing its employees it can provide better, more productive service, with increased profitability. Outsourcing is a last result to be used in two very different situations. A. you're to small to operate a full time schedule, ex. an airport like Burbank where AA only has 4 flights a day. B. when you can't get your employees, to adjust to market rates of pay and productivity, ex. NWA mechanics. In my opinion, its always better to have your own employees doing the work.

 

[777 fixer]

And what did taking pay cuts accomplish?

[post="287849"][/post]​

I take it you have no real answer?

In your original post you said.........

"The point is we took pay cuts to make the oil men richer. We should have let the industry and the economy collapse and put the blame on the oil companies instead of bankrupting ourselves to keep the airlines flying. "

So what you are saying is that we took paycuts in 2003 in order to make oil men rich? Do you have anything to back that up other than conspiracy theories and conjecture?

If the airline industry collapsed and the economy tanked what exactly would have been accomplished? Here's what, hundreds of thousands of airline employees out of work, pensions demolished, benefits gone etc, etc. If you think the wages for AMT's suck now what do you think would happen to them then? So I guess either way we all would be in the poor house. So please forgive me if I'm not so enthusiastic about you "cutting off your nose to spite your face" idea.

And before you go saying that I must be for paycuts may I remind you that I never said that. The point I was trying to make was that your idea having the whole industry collapse is just you emotions talking and not any sort of logic or reason.

 

[TWU informer]

Passengers are given the ability to choose from a wide variety of options and prices to get from point A to point B.

Whoever can generate the financial capital can gain entry to the market and provide service (with limited exceptions) to whereever they want to at whatever price they want to charge.

Are there government rules and regulations that restrict the industry, of course. But, in general, those rules apply to all airlines equally.

[post="287994"][/post]​

Get a clue!

“Definition of Free Market Economyâ€￾

Definition: A free market economy is an economy in which the allocation for resources is determined only by their supply and the demand for them. This is mainly a theoretical concept as every country, even capitalist ones, places some restrictions on the ownership and exchange of commodities.

In our current airline industry situation, we experienced and lengthy period of too much supply and not enough demand. Instead of adjusting to this situation, every airline found some way to maintain or increase supply, mostly through employee sacrifice, and thus sustaining the massive economic losses. Then the Federal Government steps in and commits taxpayer dollars to fund the management ignorance. Concessions extracted from airline employees now go straight to the wealthy oil companies and the industry losses continue.

Far from "free market", in my opinion.

Government subsidized and regulated industry is far from free market.

 

[TWU informer]

So what you are saying is that we took paycuts in 2003 in order to make oil men rich?  Do you have anything to back that up other than conspiracy theories and conjecture? 

[post="288017"][/post]​

One simply has to look at the current price of oil, compare that to the current transportation index. Then compare those figures to 2003.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what has happened. Was that the original plan in 2003? Who knows!

But nobody can argue against the current known facts that have documented results.

 

[Oneflyer]

Concessions extracted from airline employees now go straight to the wealthy oil companies and the industry losses continue.

So what you are saying is that Arpey and other airline executives, conspired with the government, and "rich oilmen" to force airline employees to take a pay cut so that the "rich oilmen" could make even more money?

 

[TWU informer]

So what you are saying is that Arpey and other airline executives, conspired with the government, and "rich oilmen" to force airline employees to take a pay cut so that the "rich oilmen" could make even more money?

[post="288074"][/post]​

I never said anything about a "conspiracy", I simply stated the resulting facts of the working man's paycut as it pertains to the current airline industry.

One could look at it another way.

Arpey was conspiring with the unions to create record profits on the backs of labor and the rich oil man stole his profits. Union leaders were not paid under the table, but instead, profited from buying stock at record lows, and selling at a healthy profit.

Either way, the plan to date has failed miserably.

BTW, if AMR is back on track, hows come we still cannot invest in company stock via our 401k plan? AMR removed this option when the employee could take a risk and profit the most. To date, the option has still not be re-instated.