Release Us!

[Overspeed]

Okay, let's see.

People willing to complain and point fingers at others who try and make a difference: Overspeed (Nice alias by the way. Easy to complain while in the shadows.)

People willing to fight for our craft regardless of the challenges we face and realize that this fight is long term: I am one person willing to do this. (Read my signature.)

Attack the messenger, didn't expect anything more.

Craft unionism is not the solution. Read this excerpt from an independent analysis of craft unionism in the airline industry from 2005. Unions need to modify their strategies and also organize others in the industry. A legislative agenda is key as well.

"Specialization and/or division of labor do not allow the worker to have control over the entire product and/or labor process. This has been recognized at least since the time of Adam Smith (Smith 1977 [1776]). In addition to this, specialization and skill formation in contemporary global capitalism puts the individual worker at risk of instant de-skilling, despite the seemingly intact “physical” attributes or use value of the skills themselves. This raises a crucial question about the redundancy of workers’ skills and highlights the difficulty of reliance on “craft” skills to enhance workplace control. Skilling and de-skilling of the labor force are the inevitable result of the competitive pressures created by global technological change. Three global trends within air transport affecting airline mechanics—the diminished role of major carriers, the change in fleet composition, and the growing use of outsourcing—are symptomatic of heightened competitive pressure in this industry. A framework developed in this article, synthesizing “creative destruction” and “destructive creation”, unifies the use value and exchange value of commodities (including those of skills), and thus presents a dynamic picture of commoditization of the labor process in the present stage of capitalism. This, both in theoretical and historical terms, challenges labor unions, such as AMFA—that are guided by the anachronism of craft orientation and often appeal to workers’ sense of professionalism—and cautions to reevaluate their strategy. Minimally, the trends we have discussed and their impact on the skills of mechanics in air transport, raise troubling doubts regarding the ability of craft unions to successfully control the workplace. In view of this fact, labor educators and union activists should be skeptical of any inference that organizing along craft lines will improve the position of those working in the majority of workplaces in the globalized economy."

 

[paul1]

Seriously? Release? To do what? We have members that call HR when someone tells them not to work OT for one day. In my station phone calls to management to stir the pot, deals being cut for CS's with themselves, and cutting deals with management for OT to name a few run rampant. You would think in a small station we could keep an eye on each other and control our own. If we can't be organized in our own station, and I hear this is a problem everywhere, how can we expect our members to have the balls to and resolve to walk out or have a job action? Release to be replaced or have a crappy contract shoved down our throats?

Ken, we don't need any more pie in the sky ideas. We need realistic solutions. AMFA, AMP, craft unionism hyperbole, defending the profession, skills competitions, or statues. We need a long term plan that doesn't rely on all or nothing ideology. The constant name calling, bogus facts, saber-rattling, and puffing your chest out for the past 15 plus years here and on the-mechanic website have gotten us where? The union needs a lot of things to put us in a position to even think of striking or doing a job action. The FAA has created regs that allow our work to be outsourced to the lowest bidder and is willing to gamble with the best aviation safety system in the world. The RLA has been undermined by the pro-business at all cost politicians and the public thinks unions are the problem because that is what they are told by the media.

A new union or emotional actions will not help AMTs. Just ask all those out of work AMFA members. I may have trouble finding them because they are all working those great high paying jobs they were told are out there.

Mister your out of line !!!!!!!!!!!! I like it. To bad only 6 post I'm sure after a couple more months they will have beat you down. YOUR IDEALS ARE OUT OF LINE with the forums big shots. good luck.

 

[Duke787]

Seriously? Release? To do what? We have members that call HR when someone tells them not to work OT for one day. In my station phone calls to management to stir the pot, deals being cut for CS's with themselves, and cutting deals with management for OT to name a few run rampant. You would think in a small station we could keep an eye on each other and control our own. If we can't be organized in our own station, and I hear this is a problem everywhere, how can we expect our members to have the balls to and resolve to walk out or have a job action? Release to be replaced or have a crappy contract shoved down our throats?

Ken, we don't need any more pie in the sky ideas. We need realistic solutions. AMFA, AMP, craft unionism hyperbole, defending the profession, skills competitions, or statues. We need a long term plan that doesn't rely on all or nothing ideology. The constant name calling, bogus facts, saber-rattling, and puffing your chest out for the past 15 plus years here and on the-mechanic website have gotten us where? The union needs a lot of things to put us in a position to even think of striking or doing a job action. The FAA has created regs that allow our work to be outsourced to the lowest bidder and is willing to gamble with the best aviation safety system in the world. The RLA has been undermined by the pro-business at all cost politicians and the public thinks unions are the problem because that is what they are told by the media.

A new union or emotional actions will not help AMTs. Just ask all those out of work AMFA members. I may have trouble finding them because they are all working those great high paying jobs they were told are out there.

Speaking facts/reality will only get you ridiculed on this forum..........you need to learn the rhetoric..... the TWU sucks!, save the profession!, they stole from us!,

I personally think the TWU negotiating team is trying to get us a decent contract.......thanks Bob and the other negotiators.

Just a reminder AMFA wasn't at UAL but a few years before they were voted out. I heard Dell speak to AA mechs and said "I would have never accepted a concession without a snap back clause"speaking of the 2003 MOAC, then he accepted a concession at UAL with no snap back clause.

 

[strikeforce]

Speaking facts/reality will only get you ridiculed on this forum..........you need to learn the rhetoric..... the TWU sucks!, save the profession!, they stole from us!,

I personally think the TWU negotiating team is trying to get us a decent contract.......thanks Bob and the other negotiators.

Just a reminder AMFA wasn't at UAL but a few years before they were voted out. I heard Dell speak to AA mechs and said "I would have never accepted a concession without a snap back clause"speaking of the 2003 MOAC, then he accepted a concession at UAL with no snap back clause.

So, what's your solution?

How many years do you expect US to wait before Bob gets anything decent?

As far as AMFA is concerned......a union is only as good as the people on the property.

Did Delle personally negotiate the UAL concessionary deal or was it UAL mechanics that negotiated the deal to accept without a snap back clause?

 

[Birdman]

Attack the messenger, didn't expect anything more.

Craft unionism is not the solution. Read this excerpt from an independent analysis of craft unionism in the airline industry from 2005. Unions need to modify their strategies and also organize others in the industry. A legislative agenda is key as well.

I'm sure it's no coincidense that this diatribe was pulled from a very bleak period of history in which an evil cororation busted a union, only to be absorbed by another company that had only partial union representation. It was only 4 years earlier that mechanics at every major airline, mostly industrial unionists, benefited from the lowly craft unions prowess, receiving the largest raise in aviation history.

 

[Bob Owens]

Seriously? Release? To do what?

Without a release the union has no levereage at the table, the company can continue what they've been doing for nearly four years, say "No, we dont want to give you anything and we want more concession or see you next month".

Once we are released we have options, real options. We can simply continue to negotiate, however the company can no longer simply say "No, see you next month" because now the union can say that they will engage in self help. That could come in the form of one day strikes, work to rule, Chaos, sit downs, sick outs, rolling strikes or whatever we need to do. Right now we cant do anything to pressure the company. Yes the company can do things as well but I think they like the status quo and dont want any word of a possible strike in the middle of their busiest season.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ Bob, the man wants you to hand him a neat little package! He don't want to make waves! Or take a risk at loosing any OT! That's something for someone else!------- Well, he's right on one thing! Now's not a good time for a strike!-------- But when is it ever? I think you're absolutely correct in saying that in these times you to have strike while still on the clock! But to legally do that, as you say, you have to be released. ------"And", you will also need the cooperation , and participation, of the membership!!! They're the ones that will have to do it! Not you!!!------ But maybe they are satisfied with whatever the company will want to take away from them! -------Hell! They can work more O.T. right!? You can always tell your wife to get a job! Or maybe a "second" one!!!!----- Right? :huh:

 

[Bob Owens]

You can always tell your wife to get a job! Or maybe a "second" one!!!!----- Right? :huh:

Did that back in 03, but advised her to get one with a future. She chose Nursing, her starting pay was $3/hr more than ours in one of the lowest paying Hospitals in the area, she had other options but this one was within walking distance from the house.

Thats one things that those who are trying to discourage a release forget, the overwhelming majority of us no longer look at AA as a sole source of family income anymore. We would like it to be but its not so even if we went on strike our family income would not go to zero.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- I was blessed! My wife never had to go to work, and we were living in one of your larger, high living expense cities, with two young kids, at the time.---- We made do!! We knew how to cut back, and did! Even when we honored the TWA Flight Attendants strike, and walked with them for three weeks! Something AA's Unions need desperately! I worked the Docks during that time! The Longshoremen Union (ILWU) knew what we were doing and invited our Local down to work out of their Union Hall. We pretty much made the same as we were making at TWA at the time. But I worked my tailfeathers off unloading Banana Boats!! Lost about five pounds in sweat the first day! That's something you don't see today, cooperation between Unions!------ This is one thing Bob, you've got to get fixed! The three Unions on the property have to stick together, and act together, to get things done for the good of all!------- Times have changed. And in today's political climate, you need all the leverage you can get! Even a threat of one of the other Unions honoring a picket line could get things off top dead center!!!

 

[strikeforce]

<_< ------- I was blessed! My wife never had to go to work, and we were living in one of your larger, high living expense cities, with two young kids, at the time.---- We made do!! We knew how to cut back, and did! Even when we honored the TWA Flight Attendants strike, and walked with them for three weeks! Something AA's Unions need desperately! I worked the Docks during that time! The Longshoremen Union (ILWU) knew what we were doing and invited our Local down to work out of their Union Hall. We pretty much made the same as we were making at TWA at the time. But I worked my tailfeathers off unloading Banana Boats!! Lost about five pounds in sweat the first day! That's something you don't see today, cooperation between Unions!------ This is one thing Bob, you've got to get fixed! The three Unions on the property have to stick together, and act together, to get things done for the good of all!------- Times have changed. And in today's political climate, you need all the leverage you can get! Even a threat of one of the other Unions honoring a picket line could get things off top dead center!!!

Kudos MCI....I make do with the same scenerio, and I have kids in H.S.

When our f/a's when on strike in the 90's, the TWU didn't honor their strike, and when the pilots were ready to walk.....the TWU didn't ask the guys to honor the pilots potential strike. When AMFA walked against NWA.....several of us on nights walked their line after our shift.....only to have many TWU members give us the bird. You're asking a union, TWU, to fight for other people, when they don't even fight for themselves, or their members.

You're asking a hipocritical union to do something that's not in their bloodstream. The TWU bashes AA management for being greedy, but Jim Little and his cronies illustrate the same greed by living lavishly, cruising in brand new caddy's and buicks, while the membership suffers.

I respect Bob Owens for what he's trying to do.....but he's associating himself with hipocrits and losers, such as Gless, Videtich, and Little, not to mention the other pro-company union baffoons like your ex-president at MCI.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ I hear what your saying Strickforce, but the alternative isn't all that apealing!!!------Hey! it's up to you, the membership! If you want it to get done bad enough, your going to have to do it yourself! You can't expect Bob, or AMP, to set a Contract at your feet!!! ------- I really don't know about this generation! They want everything handed to them without having to "work" for it!!!------ And yes! That may mean taking some risk!!! But if you want to get ahead in life, guess what?----- That comes with the territory!

 

[strikeforce]

<_< ------ I hear what your saying Strickforce, but the alternative isn't all that apealing!!!------Hey! it's up to you, the membership! If you want it to get done bad enough, your going to have to do it yourself! You can't expect Bob, or AMP, to set a Contract at your feet!!! ------- I really don't know about this generation! They want everything handed to them without having to "work" for it!!!------ And yes! That may mean taking some risk!!! But if you want to get ahead in life, guess what?----- That comes with the territory!

MCI
I don't mind taking risk, as far as protecting my livlihood, but I pay an organization to represent and protect those interests. If 11,000 guys are going to get ahead in life against AA, it has to be a coordinated effort led by whatever organization is taking our money and calling themselves "A UNION". Leaders lead, and follower's follow. Too bad our leaders are afraid of leading, and would rather see the members put our jobs at risk by leading the fight.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------O.K.! I agree!------ So what are you going to do about it!!????

 

[Chuck Schalk]

there is no where else for us to go but be released to be taken seriously. All other means have been exhausted or non-existent. We must demand to be released or if we are not released then it will fall into the hands of the membership and their sentiment will be a topic of discussion.

no contract- no peace

 

[strikeforce]

there is no where else for us to go but be released to be taken seriously. All other means have been exhausted or non-existent. We must demand to be released or if we are not released then it will fall into the hands of the membership and their sentiment will be a topic of discussion.

no contract- no peace

Chuck,

We can scream and holler "Release, Release, Release"!!!!!! The NMB is bought and paid for by AA, FAA, Obama and Congressional leaders stealing our tax dollars.

The union is being paid to represent us, and that includes having the organization think of ways to force AA into good faith bargaining. They obviously have failed us, and we can't let them off the hook by using self-help tactics on the field, and placing members at risk of losing their jobs, unless the union leadership leads the fight and has our backs. I'm all for fighting, don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not going to let the TWU leadership watch as our members are walked out the door, just because they're afraid of going to jail.