Seahawks Charter diverts to MSP.

[WorldTraveler]

It simply amazing how you cant admit you are wrong, I posted the FAR verbatim, it contains provisions for short calls.
Dont let the facts get in your way.

and a DL pilot just told you that the FARs alone mean nothing. DL's pilot contract has specific contract language and it does not simply allow the company to call a pilot crew out on 2 hours notice as you suggested.

but once again, you are so sure that you know how everything operates at a company that you have never worked for in a job that you have never done.


At the risk of stirring up yet another hornet's nest (and I am taking that risk anyway):

Since you have this deep-seated need to tell everyone that they are wrong and a liar, can you at least do it right grammatically?

You are a liar = You're a liar (with apostrophe)

The house in which you live is your house (without).

thank you,


And yes you are implying something else when you call people liars.

 

[metopower]

Correct on all . But domestic 767 crew can not fly international over water( Europe,s.america,asia)

 

[700UW]

So in essence could they have short called a crew from NYC to cover a EWR Flight?
 
So does the NYC base cover JFK, EWR and LGA?
 
And thanks for the info Meto.
 
 

no, there are no "quick calls" under 117.

Perhaps meto can explain.

yes, DL has a pilot base at NYC that covers all 3 airports.

DL also has regularly scheduled 767 int'l service from EWR in addition to JFK. Plenty of DL pilots originate their trips at EWR.

 
 
And WT you are the one who said there is no provisions for a short call under FAR117, I proved you wrong otherwise, you didnt mention the DL/ALPA CBA, you said FAR117.

 

[WorldTraveler]

well, duh, we are talking about 117 as flown by Delta Air Lines.

Where in this conversation have we been talking about a charter operated by DL but flown by pilots at another airline?

If I may summarize, Meto, if this flight had been operated by a crew that is based in NYC, they could have been ready based on domestic reserve rules but because the 767 is also an int'l airplane, crews cannot be expected to be ready for both an int'l and domestic short reserve? Is that right?

And, 700, it doesn't change that DL apparently scheduled a crew that brought the plane into EWR that was scheduled to take it onto the west coast, a schedule that is mathematically pushing the limits from the beginning by my calculations.

It would appear that it is very hard for any crew to stay legal doing that type of rotation. If so, DL likely will learn the lesson and not do it again, but esp. not in a weather situation.

Again, let's note that 85% of ExpressJet's operations were cancelled at EWR and 21% of UA's mainline ops. Whether that was due to deicing or crew issues or what, the impact to the entire EWR was enormous.

Doesn't excuse anyone of anyone.... but you should be asking why other carriers had to cancel so deep into their operations.
Absent that balance, the discussion becomes meaningless.

DL, nor UA, or any other airline operates in a vacuum.

 

[700UW]

no, there are no "quick calls" under 117.

Perhaps meto can explain.

yes, DL has a pilot base at NYC that covers all 3 airports.

DL also has regularly scheduled 767 int'l service from EWR in addition to JFK. Plenty of DL pilots originate their trips at EWR.

 
 

Your are wrong once again:
 
 
http://far117understanding.wordpress.com/far-117-flight-and-duty-time-limitations-and-rest-requirements-flightcrew-members/

 
 

how about you let a DL pilot actually explain the way they are interpreting the rules. It is a source of discussion between the company and the union right now.
 

 
 

and a DL pilot just told you that the FARs alone mean nothing. DL's pilot contract has specific contract language and it does not simply allow the company to call a pilot crew out on 2 hours notice as you suggested.

but once again, you are so sure that you know how everything operates at a company that you have never worked for in a job that you have never done.


At the risk of stirring up yet another hornet's nest (and I am taking that risk anyway):

Since you have this deep-seated need to tell everyone that they are wrong and a liar, can you at least do it right grammatically?

You are a liar = You're a liar (with apostrophe)

The house in which you live is your house (without).

thank you,


And yes you are implying something else when you call people liars.

 
 

well, duh, we are talking about 117 as flown by Delta Air Lines.

Where in this conversation have we been talking about a charter operated by DL but flown by pilots at another airline?

If I may summarize, Meto, if this flight had been operated by a crew that is based in NYC, they could have been ready based on domestic reserve rules but because the 767 is also an int'l airplane, crews cannot be expected to be ready for both an int'l and domestic short reserve? Is that right?

You never mention DL ALPA CBA in your initial post, after I posted the information from 117.
 
And the reason I asked about the 757/767 being the same bid because DL flies the 757 out of LGA and JFK.

 

[metopower]

There is no NYC base for the767. Only JFK international.... So NO they could not. And no it was 117 not the contract that prevent them from continuing.

 

[700UW]

So under your CBA, are all domestic flights from NYC on the 763 of 757 governed under Domestic or International articles in your CBA?
 
WT,
The crew came from ATL, they flew the plane in from ATL and were on duty at 6am, not a JFK based crew, from what my friend who was on the flight told me, yep a DL FA gave me the information.
 
And according to meto, it was the FAR 117, not the CBA that required the crew to be changed at MSP and not fly non-stop.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

and flight stats shows that DL cancelled a number of its own flights later in the day, validating the concern about running out of glycol.We really don't know if it is poor planning if DL ordered glycol and the supplier failed to deliver.Was DL supposed to tell the Seahawks that their charter would operate from JFK because DL has its own stock of deicing fluid there?

I am sure when Delta buys a chemical plant that makes glycol, they will be the leader in deicing fluid hedges, and will continue to drive the cost down for the all east coast airline deicing operations, absolutely cementing their continued dominance in the category of NY Area deicing operations.

 

[WorldTraveler]

You never mention DL ALPA CBA in your initial post, after I posted the information from 117.
 
And the reason I asked about the 757/767 being the same bid because DL flies the 757 out of LGA and JFK.

and you are devoid of any common sense to understand the context.

No wonder airline mgmts have such a field day ripping up union contracts because people like you want to pick fights about every tiny speck of dirt so the lawyers fill the contract full of every qualifier so the company then has no trouble finding just one that sticks so they can then tell the union "I told you so"

thanks for the info, Meto.

Answer is that DL could not have replaced the crew at NYC as was suggested.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I am sure when Delta buys a chemical plant that makes glycol, they will be the leader in deicing fluid hedges, and will continue to drive the cost down for the all east coast airline deicing operations, absolutely cementing their continued dominance in the category of NY Area deicing operations.

what is the crack spread on glycol?

maybe the market exists. If the problem was an overall shortage of glycol at the airport, then DL was just one of many victims. It isn't the first time it has happened. STL, I recall recently?

And if it wasn't a glycol issue, then why did ExpressJet have to cancel 85% of their ops on time of UA's 21%?

 

[700UW]

and you are devoid of any common sense to understand the context.

Take your own advice.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Lighten up WT, it was a joke.

 

[Kev3188]

 

I am sure when Delta buys a chemical plant that makes glycol, they will be the leader in deicing fluid hedges, and will continue to drive the cost down for the all east coast airline deicing operations, absolutely cementing their continued dominance in the category of NY Area deicing operations.

Lol.
 
 

what is the crack spread on glycol?

maybe the market exists. If the problem was an overall shortage of glycol at the airport, then DL was just one of many victims. It isn't the first time it has happened. STL, I recall recently?

And if it wasn't a glycol issue, then why did ExpressJet have to cancel 85% of their ops on time of UA's 21%?

Well, it is EV... Maybe the next time you saunter into a ready room, you can ask the employees their thoughts on EV's operation/reliability.
 
 

Lighten up WT, it was a joke.

...And a good one at that.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and is there a crack spread on glycol? Suppose that wasn't a joke too?

The EV that operates UA's services is still somewhat separated from Atlanta's Sorriest Airline.