Seniority Challenge Greets Us/hp Merger

[hpflygirl]

Ok...I have 16 years with HP, not quite 7 years in inflight. I hold a line with 4 day trips that check in late on Sunday and have either an early or mid-day return on Wednesday, or I can hold late check in on Wednesday with a mid-day return on Saturday. I have been able to hold this kind of line for nearly 2 years. I do not have to work a full weekend unless it is by my own choice. An 8-15 or 16 year flight attendant at US is on reserves. If we go by straight DOH I as a line holder will now be junior to a flight attendant who is on reserves. They will now have a line and I will be back on reserves. Yeah, sure...I see how that is fair. NOT!!
And Hulagirl...stop speaking for "all" or even the majority of the HP flight attendants. I have not spoken to even one HP flight attendant, junior or senior, who thinks it's fair.
The pilots have come together with a plan for "relative seniority integration" which will make it easier for them to work together. Too bad it's not that way in inflight, too. We all want this merger to work....this sentiment I HAVE heard from everyone.

 

[hulagirl]

Ok...I have 16 years with HP, not quite 7 years in inflight. I hold a line with 4 day trips  that check in late on Sunday and have either an early or mid-day return on Wednesday, or I can hold late check in on Wednesday with a mid-day return on Saturday. I have been able to hold this kind of line for nearly 2 years. I do not have to work a full weekend unless it is by my own choice. An 8-15 or 16 year flight attendant at US is on reserves. If we go by straight DOH I as a line holder will now be junior to a flight attendant who is on reserves. They will now have a line and I will be back on reserves. Yeah, sure...I see how that is fair. NOT!!
And Hulagirl...stop speaking for "all" or even the majority of the HP flight attendants. I have not spoken to even one HP flight attendant, junior or senior, who thinks it's fair.
The pilots have come together with a plan for "relative seniority integration" which will make it easier for them to work together. Too bad it's not that way in inflight, too. We all want this merger to work....this sentiment I HAVE heard from everyone.

[post="304572"][/post]​

hpflygirl,
I am so sorry that I have upset you. I never said that I spoke for all of the AWA flight attendants, but that ALL of the ones I have spoken with think that date of hire is fair. That is my truth, and again, I am sorry that you feel I am out of line for speaking what I have been told.
As for the pilots, they have a different merger and seniority integration system than we do. So, it is not really comparing apples to apples (ALPA to AFA).
This merger will work with the dedication and positive attitudes from all of us at US Airways.
Have a great day!
PS Why would you think you would be on reserve? That simply doesn't make any sense. Of course you wont!

 

[proudf/a]

Ok...I have 16 years with HP, not quite 7 years in inflight. I hold a line with 4 day trips that check in late on Sunday and have either an early or mid-day return on Wednesday, or I can hold late check in on Wednesday with a mid-day return on Saturday. I have been able to hold this kind of line for nearly 2 years. I do not have to work a full weekend unless it is by my own choice. An 8-15 or 16 year flight attendant at US is on reserves. If we go by straight DOH I as a line holder will now be junior to a flight attendant who is on reserves. They will now have a line and I will be back on reserves. Yeah, sure...I see how that is fair. NOT!!
And Hulagirl...stop speaking for "all" or even the majority of the HP flight attendants. I have not spoken to even one HP flight attendant, junior or senior, who thinks it's fair.
The pilots have come together with a plan for "relative seniority integration" which will make it easier for them to work together. Too bad it's not that way in inflight, too. We all want this merger to work....this sentiment I HAVE heard from everyone.

[post="304572"][/post]​

What makes you think straight DOH will change your seniority in your base? IT WILL NOT! Yes I am a 20 yr US f/a who is on reserve. Does that make me jr to a lineholder based in LGA with 7 yrs, because I am a reserve? NO it doesnt. If for whatever reason, I get assigned to fly a LGA trip, I cannot bump them from their position or trip because it is their line. However, I am still sr to them, but I am not a LGA based f/a, so they hold their position and their trip. I was a lineholder for 19 yrs, due to the downsizing of my base, I am now on reserve. Could I transfer to another US base and hold a line ABSOLUTELY, if there are open positions available in another base. Do I wish too? NO, I have no problems sitting reserve in my base. I do not understand the rational of some of these posts. So, with my 20 yrs and your 7, you think you should be senior to me because I am a reserve in my respective base or slotted in at 20 yrs when you have only been a f/a for 7? The only way you are going to lose your base seniority status will be: 1. Reduction in flying time, thus reducing the amount of lines available. 2. Open transfer positions, f/a's senior to you transfer into your base. 3. You transfer to a base where your seniority isnt nearly as good. I think you fears are completely unfounded. This subject has been exhausted. Whether you think so or not, DOH will prevail, an it will be in everyones best interest because we may not have seen the last of airline consolidation/mergers. Look at the big boys that are left out there..they have been around since God was a boy. Fighting this DOH could turn around and bite you right in the butt. I have lived through this 3 times with US and guess what, I am still here to talk about it. We managed to intergrade and get along just fine.

 

[proudf/a]

hpflygirl,
I am so sorry that I have upset you. I never said that I spoke for all of the AWA flight attendants, but that ALL of the ones I have spoken with think that date of hire is fair. That is my truth, and again, I am sorry that you feel I am out of line for speaking what I have been told.
As for the pilots, they have a different merger and seniority integration system than we do. So, it is not really comparing apples to apples (ALPA to AFA).
This merger will work with the dedication and positive attitudes from all of us at US Airways.
Have a great day!
PS Why would you think you would be on reserve? That simply doesn't make any sense. Of course you wont!

[post="304583"][/post]​

You are too kind hulagirl, you shouldn't have to apologize or feel as though you need too. The sad fact is those that are screaming unfairness are those that have no concept of how this WILL work. Trust me, it will, it will be fine. Been there done that, wrote the book, got the t-shirt and whatever else you wanna say. I will say I am actively involved with our union, so I am knowledgable, an have a very good understanding of what I am saying. Once this issue is behind us, we can work feverish to bring the best of both contracts/work rules to the table for an awesome collective bargaining agreement. (or the best we are going to get for the time being)

 

[hulagirl]

Thank you, proudf/a, for your kind words. I look forward to flying with you some day soon.

I just wanted to share this with the forum regarding this issue of seniority.

The Merriam-Webster Dictionary says the following regarding the word "seniority" ...."(noun) a privileged status attained by length of continuous service (as in a company)".

Regarding the overused word "fair" it states: "conforming with the established rules." Synonyms "fair, just, equitable, impartial, unbiased, dispassionate, objective, free from favor".

What I got out of this is that seniority is date of hire, and it is fair.
But, again, that is just the dictionary and my interpretation of it.

 

[air747]

What makes you think straight DOH will change your seniority in your base? IT WILL NOT! Yes I am a 20 yr US f/a who is on reserve. Does that make me jr to a lineholder based in LGA with 7 yrs, because I am a reserve? NO it doesnt. If for whatever reason, I get assigned to fly a LGA trip, I cannot bump them from their position or trip because it is their line. However, I am still sr to them, but I am not a LGA based f/a, so they hold their position and their trip. I was a lineholder for 19 yrs, due to the downsizing of my base, I am now on reserve. Could I transfer to another US base and hold a line ABSOLUTELY, if there are open positions available in another base. Do I wish too? NO, I have no problems sitting reserve in my base. I do not understand the rational of some of these posts. So, with my 20 yrs and your 7, you think you should be senior to me because I am a reserve in my respective base or slotted in at 20 yrs when you have only been a f/a for 7? The only way you are going to lose your base seniority status will be: 1. Reduction in flying time, thus reducing the amount of lines available. 2. Open transfer positions, f/a's senior to you transfer into your base. 3. You transfer to a base where your seniority isnt nearly as good. I think you fears are completely unfounded. This subject has been exhausted. Whether you think so or not, DOH will prevail, an it will be in everyones best interest because we may not have seen the last of airline consolidation/mergers. Look at the big boys that are left out there..they have been around since God was a boy. Fighting this DOH could turn around and bite you right in the butt. I have lived through this 3 times with US and guess what, I am still here to talk about it. We managed to intergrade and get along just fine.

[post="304584"][/post]​

Thank you....I've been telling Hp fa's about seniority at your base....they don't seem to understand it because we have one base....and as a HP fa DOH is the only fair way, and I've spoken to other employees and they feel the same...let's get this over with and make a great airline.....

 

[Travelpro72]

There are understandably many fearfull f/a's at HP. They are so worried due to input from "other" airlines and jumpseat rumor. The best way to calm down is to get educated about the situation at hand.

 

[tadjr]

I saw this on the wall at the US training center and thought it might help here in some of the rumor control. I believe the wording was "Junior main line holder" or something to that effect. (They had another list of junior secondary line holders) I didnt realize it at the time or I would have written the exact wording down. It is for the flight attendants as of the past month or so I believe.
BOS 14Aug89
CLT 29Jun87
DCA 05Jun89
LGA 21Mar99
PHL 05Jun89
PIT 09Nov81

 

[hpflygirl]

If we worked in an industry where things were pretty stable most of the time and unexpected changes were not the norm...then no, I wouldn't be so concerned. But unfortunately, it's not that way in the airline industry and we all know it. It is always changing. We have a HUGE attrition rate within our reserve flight attendant group (and those barely off reserve) at HP...and with what they are paid and how they are treated, I can't say I blame them for leaving. There have been 2000 flight attendants hired at HP since I started flying...and only 961 of those 2000 are still here.

So when the fences come down, and the reserves continue to leave at the current rate, this will leave plenty of openings for anyone senior from another base to transfer in. No, I don't expect a flood of senior PHL based flight attendants to come stampeding into PHX, but I have spoken with some who are tired of the commute and would welcome the ease of doing the LAX-PHX commute. When this happens, it will do nothing but push me and many other line holders down the ladder, which can completely change the flexibility we have with our scheduling and our lifestyle (school, kids, other jobs, etc).

I realize a 20 year fence, or actually anything more than just a few years, is completely unreasonable and will never happen. But maybe....just maybe....all of you who keep saying we at HP have nothing to worry about can now see why so many of us with under 15 years feel we do have reasons to be concerned.

 

[proudf/a]

If we worked in an industry where things were pretty stable most of the time and unexpected changes were not the norm...then no, I wouldn't be so concerned. But unfortunately, it's not that way in the airline industry and we all know it. It is always changing. We have a HUGE attrition rate within our reserve flight attendant group (and those barely off reserve) at HP...and with what they are paid and how they are treated, I can't say I blame them for leaving. There have been 2000 flight attendants hired at HP since I started flying...and only 961 of those 2000 are still here.

So when the fences come down, and the reserves continue to leave at the current rate, this will leave plenty of openings for anyone senior from another base to transfer in. No, I don't expect a flood of senior PHL based flight attendants to come stampeding into PHX, but I have spoken with some who are tired of the commute and would welcome the ease of doing the LAX-PHX commute. When this happens, it will do nothing but push me and many other line holders down the ladder, which can completely change the flexibility we have with our scheduling and our lifestyle (school, kids, other jobs, etc).

I realize a 20 year fence, or actually anything more than just a few years, is completely unreasonable and will never happen. But maybe....just maybe....all of you who keep saying we at HP have nothing to worry about can now see why so many of us with under 15 years feel we do have reasons to be concerned.

[post="304722"][/post]​

The fear of the unknown is completely understandable, but if there are not 100 vacant open positions available for transfer into PHX, you are not going to have to worry about transfers. Just another fyi, yes we have some very senior f/a's, however there are less active f/a's with 20+yrs then AWA has on their payroll. When a seniority list is intergraded by DOH, your 8 yrs with AWA is still worth 8 yrs, it doesnt matter on a system seniority list how many are above or below you, you do not lose anytime that you have invested in this job. It is a base by base seniority that will dictate your lifestyle/scheduling/vacations etc. As far as I am concerned, they can put a fence on PHX forever...but i also feel if former AWA f/a's want to protect their base, then US f/a's have the right to fight for their primo bases as well. We actually have 2 of those CLT and PHL. You dont think f/a's in those bases with 15 yrs or less is concerned about AWA f/a's wanting to come in and fly to some new cities, etc. I am sure they are. They are also professional enough to realize it is what is, you will be embraced into the base seniority at your date of hire. When the East meets the West you will realize, we play well with others.

 

[hulagirl]

hpflygirl,
You have nothing to worry about. As you said, there will not be a flood of people coming to PHX. It will trickle in. And yes, we will all lose a little bidding power. But, please look to the future, and what possibilities it will bring to us all. We don't have the proverbial crystal ball, but the hints are there about the future of this new airline.
The airline industry is consistent with the rest of commerce in the United States. There are continuous mergers in every corner of business: consumer products, telephones, oil, etc. There isn't a business out there that isn't touched by mergers and aquisitions on a daily basis. The "norm" is consolidation, not vice-versa.
The fear of the unknown is causing this panic. The USAir flight attendants have been through this, and they continually are telling flight attendants on this forum about their experiences, and sharing their thoughts with us at AWA. There is nothing to fear!!!

 

[airportman]

hpflygirl,
You have nothing to worry about. As you said, there will not be a flood of people coming to PHX. It will trickle in. And yes, we will all lose a little bidding power. But, please look to the future, and what possibilities it will bring to us all. We don't have the proverbial crystal ball, but the hints are there about the future of this new airline.
The airline industry is consistent with the rest of commerce in the United States. There are continuous mergers in every corner of business: consumer products, telephones, oil, etc. There isn't a business out there that isn't touched by mergers and aquisitions on a daily basis. The "norm" is consolidation, not vice-versa.
The fear of the unknown is causing this panic. The USAir flight attendants have been through this, and they continually are telling flight attendants on this forum about their experiences, and sharing their thoughts with us at AWA. There is nothing to fear!!!

[post="304780"][/post]​

please remember we are talking apples and oranges also........us block/resv system is very different from hp.............depending on the type of scheduling system adapted in the NEW us will dictate how long resv and how many......us system leaves about 22% on resv in each base.......hp does not......us has lots of opentime because of this, time that could be built into blocks.....so the years on reserve and the amount of them cant be compared equally till we know what our contract will hold........