several questions regarding this ridiculous T/A

[dc10boy]

Hi, guys and Gals I see 2 contradictory statements on the 7-10 term sheet,
http://www.twubkfacts.org/Portals/39/votingdocs/MRTermSheet071012.pdf
and the Summary Comparison: AA 1113 (c) Filing vs. July 10, 2012 TA
http://www.twubkfacts.org/Portals/39/votingdocs/20120712SidebySideMRFinalA.pdf
The 7-10 term sheet states (regarding outsourcing)
"Modify Article 1 and all other applicable sections and Attachments to the
Agreement and all other LOA’s related to this provision to permit
outsourcing of up to 35% of aircraft-related maintenance work currently
done in house".The Phrase "currently done in house" is struck with a line through it.
This indicates to me a hard cap of 35%.
The Summary Comparison: AA 1113 (c) Filing vs. July 10, 2012 TA states
"Modify Article 1 and all other applicable sections and Attachments to the Agreement and all other LOA’s related to this provision to permit outsourcing of up to 35% of aircraft-related maintenance spend done in house".
This indicates cap of 35% + our current numbers which add up to WAY more then 35%.
These are contradictory numbers on documents both dated 7-10.Which is correct? Big difference.
2.I've read much about the APA's 13.5 equity stake in the new AA.(could be lucrative)I've also read in various media outlets the TWU gets an equity stake as well.Where are the numbers? How much?I can't seem to find it in the T/A.
3.I see the prefunding is visible again.Do we get the company match? or just our contribution?Where is this info?
The truth is this is a load of garbage.Hewett should be ashamed of himself.
For Me nothing has changed no matter what the answers are to these questions.
I am a solid NO! It's time to fight for our profession.Not curl up and surrender more.

 

[Overspeed]

Hi, guys and Gals I see 2 contradictory statements on the 7-10 term sheet,
http://www.twubkfact...Sheet071012.pdf
and the Summary Comparison: AA 1113 © Filing vs. July 10, 2012 TA
http://www.twubkfact...ideMRFinalA.pdf
The 7-10 term sheet states (regarding outsourcing)
"Modify Article 1 and all other applicable sections and Attachments to the
Agreement and all other LOA’s related to this provision to permit
outsourcing of up to 35% of aircraft-related maintenance work currently
done in house".The Phrase "currently done in house" is struck with a line through it.
This indicates to me a hard cap of 35%.
The Summary Comparison: AA 1113 © Filing vs. July 10, 2012 TA states
"Modify Article 1 and all other applicable sections and Attachments to the Agreement and all other LOA’s related to this provision to permit outsourcing of up to 35% of aircraft-related maintenance spend done in house".
This indicates cap of 35% + our current numbers which add up to WAY more then 35%.
These are contradictory numbers on documents both dated 7-10.Which is correct? Big difference.
2.I've read much about the APA's 13.5 equity stake in the new AA.(could be lucrative)I've also read in various media outlets the TWU gets an equity stake as well.Where are the numbers? How much?I can't seem to find it in the T/A.
3.I see the prefunding is visible again.Do we get the company match? or just our contribution?Where is this info?
The truth is this is a load of garbage.Hewett should be ashamed of himself.
For Me nothing has changed no matter what the answers are to these questions.
I am a solid NO! It's time to fight for our profession.Not curl up and surrender more.

It's 35% of maintenance spend period. Not 35% plus anything.

 

[TWU informer]

It's 35% of maintenance spend period. Not 35% plus anything.

Wrong!
It is 35% of Maintenance Spend, plus our defined pension, retirement medical, thousands of headcount, work rules we can see, AFW Maintenance Base, increase in medical premiums with less coverage, and work rules still not seen or negotiated, concessions in rotation of shift, concession in tranfers and C/C bidding, 7 day coverage, ect, ect,

35% plus a hell of alot is you ask me!

VOTE NO!

 

[Bob Owens]

Its 35% of spend. "Spend" includes parts and materials but not the hangars etc, its not just "Labor spend". Dont forget Line Maintenance where they get the biggest bang for the buck is part of the maint spend. So its a lot more than 35% of the labor. Why do you think they are pushing to get rid of system protection? They gave 95% of the pilots job protection and only around 80% of us have it yet they are demanding we give it up. If they outsource 35% of the spend (as they have conviently define it) they could outsource more than half the OH jobs especially if they send the Narrow bodies to South America(they dont want to make the same "mistake" UAL made ). By sending the work overseas it allows them to send out more work at less "spend".

Figure the cost of Engine parts vs airframe work and you can see where the money is. My guess is the total cost to have one mechanic replace a fan blade is more than five guys teraring out all the seats in the cabin. So as long as AA keeps the high dollar stuff in house like most of their competitors do they can pretty much contract out all the aiframe work.

The 35% is a huge number and it allows the company to get rid of more than half the OH workers. If what Overspin said a few days ago hold true, that the company may switch to a program more like WN, where they do sectional overhauls on the line instead of heavy MBVs then they will be done in DWH and the lighter stuff in various other hangars that AA still has in places like LAX, SFO, DFW, ORD, MIA, LGA, JFK, &BOS. As the 757s and MD80s go away so will most of the work for Tulsa.

They are trying to use fear and omission to get us to slit our own throats. I have to wonder what grand secret plans were sold to the leaders of 514 and if any of its in writing for them to be going around selling this. I dont think they consciously sold out and I think that they do have the best of intentions on trying to save as many jobs as possible in Tulsa and keep those jobs in Tulsa at any price, I just think theyve been duped and failed to see the writing on the wall. Look at the rejected TA and see what the company was trying to do as far as Line Maint and OH and Title II, now look at whats on the table and ask yourself "why the change in strategy?".

 

[High Speed Steel]

Its 35% of spend. "Spend" includes parts and materials but not the hangars etc, its not just "Labor spend". Dont forget Line Maintenance where they get the biggest bang for the buck is part of the maint spend. So its a lot more than 35% of the labor. Why do you think they are pushing to get rid of system protection? They gave 95% of the pilots job protection and only around 80% of us have it yet they are demanding we give it up. If they outsource 35% of the spend (as they have conviently define it) they could outsource more than half the OH jobs especially if they send the Narrow bodies to South America(they dont want to make the same "mistake" UAL made ). By sending the work overseas it allows them to send out more work at less "spend".

Figure the cost of Engine parts vs airframe work and you can see where the money is. My guess is the total cost to have one mechanic replace a fan blade is more than five guys teraring out all the seats in the cabin. So as long as AA keeps the high dollar stuff in house like most of their competitors do they can pretty much contract out all the aiframe work.

The 35% is a huge number and it allows the company to get rid of more than half the OH workers. If what Overspin said a few days ago hold true, that the company may switch to a program more like WN, where they do sectional overhauls on the line instead of heavy MBVs then they will be done in DWH and the lighter stuff in various other hangars that AA still has in places like LAX, SFO, DFW, ORD, MIA, LGA, JFK, &BOS. As the 757s and MD80s go away so will most of the work for Tulsa.

They are trying to use fear and omission to get us to slit our own throats. I have to wonder what grand secret plans were sold to the leaders of 514 and if any of its in writing for them to be going around selling this. I dont think they consciously sold out and I think that they do have the best of intentions on trying to save as many jobs as possible in Tulsa and keep those jobs in Tulsa at any price, I just think theyve been duped and failed to see the writing on the wall. Look at the rejected TA and see what the company was trying to do as far as Line Maint and OH and Title II, now look at whats on the table and ask yourself "why the change in strategy?".

Perhaps you need to go and take a long look at the companies March 22nd term sheets they will impose. What you are complaining about will be gone anyway also within the March 22nd term sheet is a statement reguarding concensual agreement must be met, and if not, anything with an (*) will not apply. That means there would be no raises, no profit sharing, no Early Out, Pension turned over to the PBGC etc,etc,etc...

What the TA offers is raises, gain sharing plan for Line and Base employees, 36 month wage average adjustment, 48 month early section 6 opener to re-negotiate (we would still get raises as they re-negotiate), profit sharing, matching 401k, Early Out etc,etc,etc...

I will be voting for the TA and I suggest you do the same. If you decide you can't live with it after the fact you can take the Early Out that offer's over $39,500.00, you as well would recieve your prefunding contribution plus interest and if there is a successful Section 1114 filing through the bankruptcy you would get the companies prefunding portion too. This would probably place you near $50,000.00 to sever your ties, and walk away.

Then you could take your skills elswhere to a company who you think would treat you better.....Just my thoughts

 

[TWU informer]

Perhaps you need to go and take a long look at the companies March 22nd term sheets they will impose. What you are complaining about will be gone anyway also within the March 22nd term sheet is a statement reguarding concensual agreement must be met, and if not, anything with an (*) will not apply. That means there would be no raises, no profit sharing, no Early Out, Pension turned over to the PBGC etc,etc,etc...

What the TA offers is raises, gain sharing plan for Line and Base employees, 36 month wage average adjustment, 48 month early section 6 opener to re-negotiate (we would still get raises as they re-negotiate), profit sharing, matching 401k, Early Out etc,etc,etc...

I will be voting for the TA and I suggest you do the same. If you decide you can't live with it after the fact you can take the Early Out that offer's over $39,500.00, you as well would recieve your prefunding contribution plus interest and if there is a successful Section 1114 filing through the bankruptcy you would get the companies prefunding portion too. This would probably place you near $50,000.00 to sever your ties, and walk away.

Then you could take your skills elswhere to a company who you think would treat you better.....Just my thoughts

What proof do you have that AA would impose the 3/22 term sheet?

They could impose this T/A if that is their desire.

3/22 would mean labor war not labor peace.

I think they impose this T/A and we will negotiate further, IF abbrogation is granted. There is a reason this is called a modified term sheet.

And your vote my way or get the hell out and leave is nothing more than more of the problem we have, not the solution. We do still live in the USA, regardless of your cultist teachings and beliefs.

 

[Mr Red]

Perhaps you need to go and take a long look at the companies March 22nd term sheets they will impose. What you are complaining about will be gone anyway also within the March 22nd term sheet is a statement reguarding concensual agreement must be met, and if not, anything with an (*) will not apply. That means there would be no raises, no profit sharing, no Early Out, Pension turned over to the PBGC etc,etc,etc...

What the TA offers is raises, gain sharing plan for Line and Base employees, 36 month wage average adjustment, 48 month early section 6 opener to re-negotiate (we would still get raises as they re-negotiate), profit sharing, matching 401k, Early Out etc,etc,etc...

I will be voting for the TA and I suggest you do the same. If you decide you can't live with it after the fact you can take the Early Out that offer's over $39,500.00, you as well would recieve your prefunding contribution plus interest and if there is a successful Section 1114 filing through the bankruptcy you would get the companies prefunding portion too. This would probably place you near $50,000.00 to sever your ties, and walk away.

Then you could take your skills elswhere to a company who you think would treat you better.....Just my thoughts

Thats Exactly what I'm doing!!! ONE MORE NO VOTE LEFT !

 

[High Speed Steel]

What proof do you have that AA would impose the 3/22 term sheet?

They could impose this T/A if that is their desire.

3/22 would mean labor war not labor peace.

I think they impose this T/A and we will negotiate further, IF abbrogation is granted. There is a reason this is called a modified term sheet.

And your vote my way or get the hell out and leave is nothing more than more of the problem we have, not the solution. We do still live in the USA, regardless of your cultist teachings and beliefs.

I say they will impose it because the company has done pretty much everything Bob said they wouldn't do by rejecting the 2010 TA. Remember, Bob said the bankruptcy was just a threat! What makes you think the company would do anything different? They say they will impose with the March 22, 2012 terms of employement sheet. So who you gonna believe now Informer?

 

[Mr Red]

I say they will impose it because the company has done pretty much everything Bob said they wouldn't do by rejecting the 2010 TA. Remember, Bob said the bankruptcy was just a threat! What makes you think the company would do anything different? They say they will impose with the March 22, 2012 terms of employement sheet. So who you gonna believe now Informer?

You just don't get it .This company is going to to top of the ladder as far as earnings go.The F/As are a NO,the Pilots we talk to
are a NO ! and the AMTs on the line are NO !and I think enough guys at TUL see light they will help carry a NO Vote.
If you think this company can operate with the big three under 1113,theres no help for you.

 

[Buck]

In the TWU road show the leadership zt Local 514 indicated that a yes vote and the early out would eventually in the short term create hiring at TUL. It would appear to me that the company realizes that there are a shortage of mechanics or places to get the work done in a timely manner. A yes vote would just play into the company's inability to find mechanics and/or a place to do maintenance. Another smoke and mirrors proposal.

Vote No!

 

[olderguyAMT]

In the TWU road show the leadership zt Local 514 indicated that a yes vote and the early out would eventually in the short term create hiring at TUL. It would appear to me that the company realizes that there are a shortage of mechanics or places to get the work done in a timely manner. A yes vote would just play into the company's inability to find mechanics and/or a place to do maintenance. Another smoke and mirrors proposal.

Vote No!

Early out incentive is a devide and conquer bribe for the I Got Mine people, and is tempting, if your are at or nearing retirement age like me. But, as we bail out with our cash in hand, there is the IRS waiting in the wings with their outstreched hand. Early Out money will place you into a higher tax bracket, and you will be forced to learn about the other AMT, the Alternative Minimum Tax courtesy of the IRS.
Plus the IGM people will bail out and run away as they forget about the effects of the YES vote on the union brother. Just weighing the pros and cons of this TA. Think about what the pilots will do.