Should AA order more 738s or wait for 737 replacement?

FWAAA

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Jan 5, 2003
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With fuel still at very high levels and the MD-80 fleet continuing to age, more 738s would probably mean significant fuel savings. The APFA claims that management's delay in ordering 738s (by not ordering them earlier in AA's recovery last decade) cost AA $1.8 billion in additional fuel expense from 2004-09.

Problem is, if AA buys a lot more 738s in the short-term and then Boeing goes ahead and builds a fuel-efficient replacement for the 737, the buyers of late-model 737s will wonder why they didn't wait a while. (Because waiting means spending millions of dollars more on fuel every day/week/month/year that the airline waits for Boeing to make a decision.

Today, Boeing's CEO said that it would build a new airplane to replace the 737, and then he backpedaled a bit:

Boeing Chairman and CEO James McNerney told analysts on Thursday, "We're going to do a new airplane." He then seemed to backtrack a little, saying, "We're not done evaluating this whole situation yet, but our current bias ... is to move to a newer airplane, an all-new airplane, at the end of the decade, beginning of the next decade. It's our judgment that our customers will wait for us."

After McNerney spoke, the company tweeted that it expects to have more clarity by the middle of this year on its plans for the 737. Boeing has said previously that it is leaning toward designing a new plane.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Boeing-CEO-new-airplane-to-apf-3027390985.html?x=0&.v=7

Arpey and Horton and the other bean counters have to be asking: "So are you or aren't you?"

Even if Boeing does eventually build a composite replacement for the 737, realistically it won't be flying for quite a few years anyway, so I'd vote for more fuel-efficient replacements now.
 
Boeing has said that it plans to make incremental improvements to the efficiency of the 737NG's no matter what it decides about a replacement. It appears that the customers predominately want a replacement rather than a new design now, but considering that most of the customers are leasing companies that's no surprise - putting off a large change keeps the value of the NG's up longer.

Aside from sales of the NG's, Boeing has the advantage of the unchallenged 777. Looks like Airbus will be scrapping plans for the A350-1000 since no one is interested - some customers are saying outright that it won't be competitive with the 777 when passenger and cargo loads are factored in.

Jim
 
Also missing the mainstream is that Boeing just built a new 767 line, even though the 787 is supposed to be a 767 replacement product....

Not everyone wants to go to the next-gen product right away.

I'm starting to wonder why AA didn't try to go the route that DL is going -- they're snapping up the world's current supply of MD90's left and right, for considerably less than what a new 738 fetches...
 
Also missing the mainstream is that Boeing just built a new 767 line, even though the 787 is supposed to be a 767 replacement product....

Not everyone wants to go to the next-gen product right away.

Sounds like Boeing is planning to build some tankers for inflight refueling . . . :D

But seriously, some airlines have purchased new 763s in recent years (LAN comes to mind).

I'm starting to wonder why AA didn't try to go the route that DL is going -- they're snapping up the world's current supply of MD90's left and right, for considerably less than what a new 738 fetches...

Delta's MD-90 purchases are certainly very similar to the decision by NW in the 1990s to refurbish its DC-9s, figuring that fuel was cheaper than new airplanes. And it was for the 1990s and the first half of the last decade.

Delta's move is another gamble that fuel prices moderate and don't continue to climb quickly, as the MD-90 is still less fuel efficient than new 738s. My back of the envelope calculations show that the MD-90 is about 21.5% more fuel efficient than AA's MD-80s on a seat-mile basis, but that AA's new 738s are about 19% more fuel efficient than Delta's MD-90s on a seat-mile basis.

In computing these numbers, I used AA's assertion that its new 738s are about 35% more fuel efficient than AA's MD-80s on a seat-mile basis plus some other data I found for MD-90 and MD-80 average fuel burn per hour. At the right price, the MD-90s probably make sense unless jet fuel prices climb ever higher. Oil prices are of course down today on today's Egypt news, but as economies here and abroad recover and grow, my hunch is that oil prices continue to advance.
 
I herad a rumor that AA was going to convert the 54 frim order of Boeing 738 that are on the books and change them to Boeing 739er. I herad that AA next batch of Boeing 738 are to start arriving sometime in MAY 2011. I beleive Jamie said the next batch is a total of 15 frames for 2011, and the 2012 group is 28 frames, with the last group of 11 frames in early 2013.

Jamie said that AA was taking a look at the 739er because they have a 6% cost per saet mile advantage that the 738, and the 739er 3% more fuel efficient with the enhance performance package than the new 738 coming off the line.
 
Sounds like Boeing is planning to build some tankers for inflight refueling . . . :D

But seriously, some airlines have purchased new 763s in recent years (LAN comes to mind).

Delta's MD-90 purchases are certainly very similar to the decision by NW in the 1990s to refurbish its DC-9s, figuring that fuel was cheaper than new airplanes. And it was for the 1990s and the first half of the last decade.

Delta's move is another gamble that fuel prices moderate and don't continue to climb quickly, as the MD-90 is still less fuel efficient than new 738s. My back of the envelope calculations show that the MD-90 is about 21.5% more fuel efficient than AA's MD-80s on a seat-mile basis, but that AA's new 738s are about 19% more fuel efficient than Delta's MD-90s on a seat-mile basis.

In computing these numbers, I used AA's assertion that its new 738s are about 35% more fuel efficient than AA's MD-80s on a seat-mile basis plus some other data I found for MD-90 and MD-80 average fuel burn per hour. At the right price, the MD-90s probably make sense unless jet fuel prices climb ever higher. Oil prices are of course down today on today's Egypt news, but as economies here and abroad recover and grow, my hunch is that oil prices continue to advance.
FWAAA,
Since US airlines report statistics to the US DOT about their operations including detailed cost infromation about each fleet type, there really is no guessing about what it costs to operate specific aircraft in real operations by US carriers... there are differences in some of the allocation of costs between airlines but some data like fuel burn is pretty consistent.

- first, DL's M90s burn less fuel than the 738 and about 20% less than the MD80 per hour. However, DL's M90s don't presently seat as many people as the 738s (although that is changing) and the M90s are used on shfoter flights than the 738 which affects fuel burn. DL uses the M80 on the shortest average domestic flights, with the next longest being the M90, followed by the 320, and then the 738. DL's M90s are used on similar stage lengths as AA uses on its M80s and DL's fuel burn for the are about 25% lower per hour than AA's on the M80. But on a per seat basis, the difference is a bit smaller because the M80s seat less - part of why DL is adding seats to its M80s (as well as 90s) to bring down seat costs.
- The M90 burns LESS fuel per hour than the 738 or the 320.... again, it is used on shorter segments, but it is also lighter - which is related to its lower range. DL's ownership costs on its M90s are ONE-THIRD of what AA/DL spends on 738s so it isn't hard to see why DL is going after the M90 - and total CASM is comparable to AA and DL's total CASM.

As for the 757 vs 739, the 739 burns about 15% less fuel so it would be a decent tradeoff - IF the 757s need to be replaced....

but many people don't understand the cost of money aspect, esp. in new aircraft decisions. Money is not cheap and when airlines like AA require multiple billions of dollars just to replace a single fleet type, the cost of maintaining the status quo is often cheaper than buying new equipment. Since airlines are typicallly heavily leveraged businesses, AA and DL are both rightly focusing alot of attention on getting debt off of the books. For DL, it means upgrading its existing fleet but for AA some of their M80s are of the age that they cannot wait another 10 years to start replacing them, esp. since AA has a much larger MD80 fleet.

I personally think AA's best decision is to put as many MORE seats on the M80 as possible to keep costs down, shift usage esp. on longer flights wherever possible to the 738s which are more fuel efficient, and then buy as few new 738s until Boeing comes up w/ a viable new aircraft/replacement for the 738. DL's announcement that is willing to buy some new narrowbodies is a shot at Boeing that it will look elsewhere if Boeing doesn't come up w/ a better product.... AA could do the same thing if they are willing to buy other existing narrowbodies.

Finally, few people at AA talk about the 762 but that is by far the most expensive aircraft on a CASM basis in the US passenger fleet with costs 50% higher than the 738, 757, and 763 for AA. Maintenance costs are twice as high as on AA's 763s while fuel burn is only about 7% lower. The 757 burns 40% less fuel than the 762. The only real advantage is that the 762s are almost fully depreciated so ownership costs are very low. I understand the premium nature of AA's service on the 762 but average fares do not bear out that AA recovers the increased cost of operating the 762, unless they carry a WHOLE LOT of high value cargo. Further, there are premium seats available for narrowbodies - and UA does get a substantial revenue premium to AA on its JFK-LAX/SFO routes, although on far less volume. A far more economical way for AA to serve the transcons in my mind would be a combination of 752s and 763s in international configuration with the 763s providing the cargo capabilities and the extra passenger capacity in order to maintain AA's market share - which has decline fairly significantly over the past 5 years in the face of strong competition. If AA had not removed the A300s from the fleet, they could work well in transcon service as well.... the A300s always had competitive cost numbers to comparable aircraft (the "accident" effect not counted).

I recognize that the 763s are in need for int'l routes but I would also personally recommend that AA buy 20-25 764s or better yet A333s - because both would handle the vast majority of AA's S. America routes at lower costs than the 777s - and in the case of the 333s be larger than the 772s, freeing up the 772s for longer haul flying where the extra weight of the 772 makes alot LESS sense on flights less than 12 hours which could be done on lighter aircraft that might carry as much (the 333 and 772 have similar floor space and lift capabilities on a 10 hr flight but the 333 weighs 50K pounds less, resulting in less fuel burn and landing fees).
But that is another discussion.....
 
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Ok AA says thy are getting rid of their MD-80s as the 738 is more fuel efficient, so which it?
 
Ok AA says thy are getting rid of their MD-80s as the 738 is more fuel efficient, so which it?

The 738 is 35% more fuel efficient on a seat-mile basis than AA's MD-80s. On that there is no dispute. From last summer's order announcement:

American Airlines, Inc., a wholly-owned subsidiary of AMR Corp., today announced an order for 35 additional Next-Generation Boeing 737-800s, to be delivered in 2011 and 2012.

The 35 newly ordered 737s will be in addition to the 84 new 737s that began entering American's fleet in April 2009, when the Company launched its replacement plan for its MD80 narrowbody fleet. The 737s are 35 percent more fuel-efficient on a seat-mile basis than the MD80 aircraft that they are replacing - an average savings of 800,000 gallons of fuel per aircraft per year.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=117098&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1450087&highlight=

The issue raised in this thread is whether AA continues to burn, at today's prices, nearly $2 million per year per MD-80 on extra fuel expense (not counting the maintenance costs) by waiting for Boeing to announce its 737 replacement (if it ever does) or whether AA should accelerate the 738 orders now and capture fuel savings (and reduced maintenance expenses).

It's possible that AA is holding off on more 738 orders because the 195 738s it has on order or already delivered is approaching the desired fleet size. Perhaps the hope is that a new pilot contract will eventually permit an order for 100 seaters as not every market needs 160 seats per flight. US has plenty of 90-100 seaters flying for it, as does B6.
 
They've been dragging the MD-80s back from the desert lately
Have they? Or have they delayed taking down the 80's as the new 737's have been delivered? I always see announcements as new airplanes come on but never see anything concerning retirement. If they are bringing retired aircraft back, the domestic fleet should be growing, yet I see no evidence of this.

MK
 
This is the first time I've heard about AA bringing back
MD80 from the desert. I have not read any official announcement from the company that they are doing this.
 
AA should continue to replace the MD80. Who knows how
long it will take Boeing to introduce a new airplane. The MD80 has pretty much reach it's "usable" lifetime from an economical point of view.
 
Ok AA says thy are getting rid of their MD-80s as the 738 is more fuel efficient, so which it?
It could be either or both depending on how each airline operates them. First you've got to stage length adjust the numbers - one type may seem to burn less fuel, but is that because another carrier flies that type on longer stage length. Even congestion can affect the way the numbers appear - does one carrier fly the type in higher congested airspace/airports then the other on average.

A good example was NW's DC9's. Back when they did a major refresh on them, it was cheaper to keep flying a fully paid for DC9 than replacing it with a new airplane. But as the cost of fuel went up it finally became cheaper in the long run to pay the price for a new airplane. I don't remember the exact numbers, but AA not going through BK would also affect the CASM of a fleet type. US, by renegotiating leases/EETC payments, was paying about half as much per month for 737-3/4's as the newer A320 family. AA, without the benefit of BK, couldn't negotiate from as strong a position because they couldn't threaten to abrogate the contracts if the lease/EETC costs didn't come down.

Of course, at the end of the day it's the carriers that report the data. Pre-merger US broke out pilot training cost while HP didn't. Obviously both had a cost associated with pilot training but there was no way to compare which one spent more per pilot on average. For fuel, one carrier might tanker more than the other which would drive up the fuel burn averages of the carrier doing more tankering. In short, while it's the best publicly available data one has to be careful not to read too much into that data.

Jim
 
Jiim, you are correct... but also people need to be able to see these types of decisions as fluid and not a once in a lifetime decision.. ie once a plane goes to the desert or replacements are ordered, there is no reversing that decision.
NW used its DC9s as "flexible" capacity that could be increased as demand and costs dictated and removed as capacity needed to be removed from the system. DL has done the same thing w/ other fleet types and has decided the DC9s are less necessary as "flex capacity", esp. given that DL has been able to add more 70 and 76 seat 2 class regional jets which on a CASM basis are probably cheaper to operate than DC9s. Since the DL ALPA contract contains limitations on the deployment of large RJs, DL is working within those restraints.

All data has to be interepred within the context in which it is used. AA says its 738s use 35% less fuel on a CASM basis and that is true but they also don't note that their M80s have below average seating capacity in the industry while their 738s are closer to average. There are other cost items which need to be considered as I mentioned including maintenance and ownership costs - which I why I included those.... but it is also important to note that AA's ownership costs for its M80s based on DOT data are above average for narrowbody aircraft precisely because AMR has not been in bankruptcy. AA probably could dramatically reduce the cost of ownership for its M80s if it were to file for BK but since they haven't, they have to make decisions based on the current situation -which means fuel burn is a more significant factor in the decision. DL was able to reduce the cost of ownership for its M80s and pays less per aircraft than AA even though DL's M80s are newer.

As I have noted in many places, cost data is not standardized within the industry so carriers are free to interpret and report it as they please... but you also have to believe (though there is no assurance) that AA is reporting costs for each of its fleet types on a consistent basis... thus AA's data by fleet type as reported to the DOT should be internally consistent - but that doesn't mean the same consistency will be seen between carriers - which means that outside parties including AA's unions should not assume with any degree of accuracy that they can say how much money AA is saving, esp. since they choose to argue about the fuel cost without considering a whole lot of other factors, including the real big cost of money - which unions seem to conveniently forget often.

Further, it should be pointed out that because the 738 is a larger aircraft, crew costs are higher and when configured for more than 150 seats, it requires more FAs. It should therefore be recognized that AA's pilot and FA unions are going to push for the 738 if for no other reason but the mechanics might be quite happy to see the M80 around for a long time.