So long Captain Dubinsky. Actually, Good Riddance

UnitedChicago

Veteran
Aug 27, 2002
756
0
www.usaviation.com
Today, Captain Dubinsky retires from United Airlines. You may remember him from such things as leader of ALPA during the 1985 pilots strike or for overseeing the work slowdown in 2000 and uttering this quote:[BR][BR]Rick Dubinsky, longtime head of the AirLine Pilots Association at United, made this clear when he and Goodwin began a recent wage negotiation. ''''We don''t want to kill the golden goose,'''' Dubinsky told Goodwin. ''''We just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg.'''' [BR][BR]Not the kind of talk you''d expect from a part owner or board member.[BR][BR]However, we should remember Dubinsky most for being the one to originally introduce the concept of the employees buying United. I believe that was back in 1987? What a great concept Rick! It''s only fitting his last day coincides with an imminent CH11 filing.[BR][BR]Good Riddance. Dubinsky and Goodwin should be exhiled to Iraq.
 

The Ronin

Senior
Sep 17, 2002
497
0
Not that I do not believe the arguement here. I have as others pointed out where a large majority of our demise lays. It was so blatant, why do you think the mechanics said no, and were going to say no again. Without an honest approach to our problems we will fail, and that includes issues regarding our own mechanic ranks.
 

The Ronin

Senior
Sep 17, 2002
497
0
Not that I do not believe the arguement here. I have as others pointed out where a large majority of our demise lays. It was so blatant, why do you think the mechanics said no, and were going to say no again. Without an honest approach to our problems we will fail, and that includes issues regarding our own mechanic ranks.
 

The Ronin

Senior
Sep 17, 2002
497
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 1:34:48 PM spacewaitress wrote:

Not to mention the fact that it was he who wanted Jim Goodwin in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, ALPA shares a huge burden for today's problems...especially for the summer of 2k...when we lost many of our best customers...for good.

Good riddance is right.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Yesterday it was good riddance to the mechanics. Today it is good riddance to the pilots. Who exactly is going to be there so you HAVE A F/A JOB????
 

The Ronin

Senior
Sep 17, 2002
497
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 1:34:48 PM spacewaitress wrote:

Not to mention the fact that it was he who wanted Jim Goodwin in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, ALPA shares a huge burden for today's problems...especially for the summer of 2k...when we lost many of our best customers...for good.

Good riddance is right.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Yesterday it was good riddance to the mechanics. Today it is good riddance to the pilots. Who exactly is going to be there so you HAVE A F/A JOB????
 

spacewaitress

Senior
Aug 27, 2002
468
0
Not to mention the fact that it was he who wanted Jim Goodwin in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, ALPA shares a huge burden for today's problems...especially for the summer of 2k...when we lost many of our best customers...for good.

Good riddance is right.
 

spacewaitress

Senior
Aug 27, 2002
468
0
Not to mention the fact that it was he who wanted Jim Goodwin in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, ALPA shares a huge burden for today's problems...especially for the summer of 2k...when we lost many of our best customers...for good.

Good riddance is right.
 

sastal

Member
Sep 2, 2002
84
0
----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 1:34:48 PM spacewaitress wrote: [BR][BR]Not to mention the fact that it was he who wanted Jim Goodwin in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, ALPA shares a huge burden for today's problems...especially for the summer of 2k...when we lost many of our best customers...for good.[BR][BR]Good riddance is right. [BR]----------------[BR][BR]Yesterday it was good riddance to the mechanics. Today it is good riddance to the pilots. Who exactly is going to be there so you HAVE A F/A JOB????[BR][BR][STRONG]Who's gonna take care of the customers who bring your big fat pay check home every month? You might as well fly cargo with your attitude! Why don't you read yesterday's WSJ and feast your eyes on the primary reason that United is in this shape. [/STRONG]
 

sastal

Member
Sep 2, 2002
84
0
----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 1:34:48 PM spacewaitress wrote: [BR][BR]Not to mention the fact that it was he who wanted Jim Goodwin in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, ALPA shares a huge burden for today's problems...especially for the summer of 2k...when we lost many of our best customers...for good.[BR][BR]Good riddance is right. [BR]----------------[BR][BR]Yesterday it was good riddance to the mechanics. Today it is good riddance to the pilots. Who exactly is going to be there so you HAVE A F/A JOB????[BR][BR][STRONG]Who's gonna take care of the customers who bring your big fat pay check home every month? You might as well fly cargo with your attitude! Why don't you read yesterday's WSJ and feast your eyes on the primary reason that United is in this shape. [/STRONG]
 

The Ronin

Senior
Sep 17, 2002
497
0
AHHHH...cargo. I certainly dream of the day...no people, just cargo planes, pilots, mechanics and part time college students loading. Dreams, but good dreams
 

The Ronin

Senior
Sep 17, 2002
497
0
AHHHH...cargo. I certainly dream of the day...no people, just cargo planes, pilots, mechanics and part time college students loading. Dreams, but good dreams
 

wts54

Senior
Sep 16, 2002
374
0
www.usaviation.com
Pilots, I don't like the in fighting, but some of the BS here needs answered.In the first place,I know several people here that have commericial tickets and I used their advice when two of my sons decided they wanted to be pilots. They both changed directions after obtaining their instrament ratings and both received most of their flight time via a flying club.Had they achieved this at a university such as SIU, it would have been as expensive as 4 years of medical school but certainly not eight. I have a nephew who became a doctor and a good medical school is much more expensive, so stop the BS about flying costing as much as medical school. Sure it could if your rich daddy bought you time in a 727 or equal which I know could be accomplished. You know as well as anyone that the military is the best place to accumulate hours but the other routes are there and very difficult,but none of that can even compare to an internship for a MD.
Now why should UAL AMT's cite your wages. Real simple, in the first place it was your group that pushed for the ESOP because after Ferris obtained his own commerical ticket, he realized you guys were only as good as your auto-pilot.To preserve the pilot status, your group hired a professional group headed by a famous scam artist who advised ALPA to buy the company. This isn't illegal because it is the same as owning a majority of the company and using its wealth for personal gain.So basicially I have nothing against it. What I do have against it was rather than your group using your individual incomes to control UAL, you used the small minds of the IAM to take the real hits all the while you moved up seats and your wallets got fatter. Then you made noises about having the most invested and heartlessly, illegally and immorally, screwed up the schedule so bad that big corporations who had revolving accounts with us canceled. They never came back. We are still losing money from them. Next when our turn came, we couldn't even get an editorial printed in the newspapers, the pilots wrote unprofessional whining letters that were printed, ours nothing and it was those in control of UAL that did this. Your group has power and could have contributed to this.We might never know but that just for starters.Now after 2 years of drug out negotitations and a contract that now allows outsourcing even in a layoff, your group won't even "allow" us credit for not receiveing backpay. Ask your ALPA, that was why we didn't join the so called coalition. ALPA was calling the shots for this. Next ALPA makes an offer that your group comes out way ahead in wages, that got shot down but one that is almost as bad is pushed through. Come on Mr.Pilot, no contract, unless it is an almost perfect one gets a 90% vote and I don't think any concession in unionized history ever got a concessionary deal approved by those numbers. Then we hear that your hard time hours are down to 40 average which means that your group is being protected against lay offs while our friends and working partners are being laid off. It was your higher wages that sent the older paid for planes that were paying the bills to the desert. Couldn't your group have restsrained itself and made some allowances to keep flying the shuttle and the short hauls? Now the average pilot wage is $250,000 and for every 1000 pilots being protected, it equates to $1,000,000 a day. If the number is 4000, $4,000,000. Get it??Now from the media standpoint, you again made it sound like it was our group causing the money problems. One of your less informed pilots wrote here that we can't be compared to SWA because they're low cost and do make less. Well news flash, their AMT's make the same wage that we do.

Also you try to influence people here with landing in a rain storm with cross winds etc.. Pal I've flown observer in such weather and as you well know the pilot is as much of a passenger as everyone else in CAT II days. We're now in CAT III days. Yes there is skill and yes I brag and admire our flight department or at least our past flight department. You deserve good wages but your wages are beyond good. I have a brother in law who has started four businesses. Mortgaged his life and worked 17 to 18 hours a day and worried, not just for himself but his workers welfare into having ulcers. He has flirted with six figures but never really made it there. Doctors and lawyers don't make that kind of money. Money has a value. You folks that made it into the majors are lucky because there are at least 20 turned away for every opening that comes along. So there should be a little extra for that scrutiny but not like a professional sports player, which is the only thing you could be compared. What we're in now is survival and so we all now go to market.So if you want to spead manure, I have a field near me. And pal, even in bankruptcy, you guys have power beyond ours. I didn't mind that in the AirForce when I'd pat our combat men on the helmet and say "give em hell sir" The only branch of service where he officers go to combat and the enlisted men stay back. When they come against you front liners, I'll still give you that support,just don't sing me Dixie.

 

wts54

Senior
Sep 16, 2002
374
0
www.usaviation.com
Pilots, I don't like the in fighting, but some of the BS here needs answered.In the first place,I know several people here that have commericial tickets and I used their advice when two of my sons decided they wanted to be pilots. They both changed directions after obtaining their instrament ratings and both received most of their flight time via a flying club.Had they achieved this at a university such as SIU, it would have been as expensive as 4 years of medical school but certainly not eight. I have a nephew who became a doctor and a good medical school is much more expensive, so stop the BS about flying costing as much as medical school. Sure it could if your rich daddy bought you time in a 727 or equal which I know could be accomplished. You know as well as anyone that the military is the best place to accumulate hours but the other routes are there and very difficult,but none of that can even compare to an internship for a MD.
Now why should UAL AMT's cite your wages. Real simple, in the first place it was your group that pushed for the ESOP because after Ferris obtained his own commerical ticket, he realized you guys were only as good as your auto-pilot.To preserve the pilot status, your group hired a professional group headed by a famous scam artist who advised ALPA to buy the company. This isn't illegal because it is the same as owning a majority of the company and using its wealth for personal gain.So basicially I have nothing against it. What I do have against it was rather than your group using your individual incomes to control UAL, you used the small minds of the IAM to take the real hits all the while you moved up seats and your wallets got fatter. Then you made noises about having the most invested and heartlessly, illegally and immorally, screwed up the schedule so bad that big corporations who had revolving accounts with us canceled. They never came back. We are still losing money from them. Next when our turn came, we couldn't even get an editorial printed in the newspapers, the pilots wrote unprofessional whining letters that were printed, ours nothing and it was those in control of UAL that did this. Your group has power and could have contributed to this.We might never know but that just for starters.Now after 2 years of drug out negotitations and a contract that now allows outsourcing even in a layoff, your group won't even "allow" us credit for not receiveing backpay. Ask your ALPA, that was why we didn't join the so called coalition. ALPA was calling the shots for this. Next ALPA makes an offer that your group comes out way ahead in wages, that got shot down but one that is almost as bad is pushed through. Come on Mr.Pilot, no contract, unless it is an almost perfect one gets a 90% vote and I don't think any concession in unionized history ever got a concessionary deal approved by those numbers. Then we hear that your hard time hours are down to 40 average which means that your group is being protected against lay offs while our friends and working partners are being laid off. It was your higher wages that sent the older paid for planes that were paying the bills to the desert. Couldn't your group have restsrained itself and made some allowances to keep flying the shuttle and the short hauls? Now the average pilot wage is $250,000 and for every 1000 pilots being protected, it equates to $1,000,000 a day. If the number is 4000, $4,000,000. Get it??Now from the media standpoint, you again made it sound like it was our group causing the money problems. One of your less informed pilots wrote here that we can't be compared to SWA because they're low cost and do make less. Well news flash, their AMT's make the same wage that we do.

Also you try to influence people here with landing in a rain storm with cross winds etc.. Pal I've flown observer in such weather and as you well know the pilot is as much of a passenger as everyone else in CAT II days. We're now in CAT III days. Yes there is skill and yes I brag and admire our flight department or at least our past flight department. You deserve good wages but your wages are beyond good. I have a brother in law who has started four businesses. Mortgaged his life and worked 17 to 18 hours a day and worried, not just for himself but his workers welfare into having ulcers. He has flirted with six figures but never really made it there. Doctors and lawyers don't make that kind of money. Money has a value. You folks that made it into the majors are lucky because there are at least 20 turned away for every opening that comes along. So there should be a little extra for that scrutiny but not like a professional sports player, which is the only thing you could be compared. What we're in now is survival and so we all now go to market.So if you want to spead manure, I have a field near me. And pal, even in bankruptcy, you guys have power beyond ours. I didn't mind that in the AirForce when I'd pat our combat men on the helmet and say "give em hell sir" The only branch of service where he officers go to combat and the enlisted men stay back. When they come against you front liners, I'll still give you that support,just don't sing me Dixie.