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So the House Votes 'Out of Iraq'

Democrats are happy and cuddly so long as their point of view is the only accepted point of view. Disagree with them or point out that they are wrong, and they label you a biggot, or worse still, a conservative. :shock: Dems sound exactly like Bolsheviks - he who is not with us, is against.
I really hate to point this out, but I have been called unpatriotic, traitor, terrorist lover, troop hater, and of course "liberal" and other such 'kind' names because I did not agree with a conservative/republican point of view. And the word "conservative" is not nearly thrown around as an insult nearly as much as the word "liberal". Listen to Rush, or Sean or Savage...any of those warm cuddly voices from the right.

As for Bolsheviks...here is a quote
Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.
Do you know who made that statement? Here's a link.
 
I’m sorry, did I miss the bulletin when that notified the world that the republican party has become the party of tolerance?

Yes I fired a shot at the W idiot, and in your little tirade you shot quite a few as well. You just hide them in eloquent speech and innuendo, but they are there none the less. Insults such as “reactionaryâ€￾ and saying that they are happy as long as they get their way. As KC wrote above, “with us or against usâ€￾ and calling people a traitor for employing some of their constitutional guarantees. You seem ignore subtle points such as that when they speak directly against what you advocate.

While I agree that a plan should be offered to get us out of that cluster phuch in Iraq, I am curious as to why you do not hold the admin currently in power to that same standard? After all, they have had 4 years to come up with one. They do not have a plan. Why? Because there is no plan that will work. Iraq is in a civil war. When we leave, Iran and Syria will step in and that will fall directly at the feet of Cheney. Had they even paused to think about what they were doing perhaps America would not be in this mess.

The Dems are not going to concede what? That Iraq had nothing to do with terrorist attacks on the US. That OBL is still walking around free as a bird. That he is training his troops not in Iraq but in Pakistan. That most of the terrorists who were in those planes came from Saudi Arabia. That Cheney and Co went against the direct advice of their military leadership and sent less troops than were required. That we would not be welcomed as liberators? That the mission is no where near accomplished. That stem cell research could help countless people (ask Nancy Reagan). That the people of this country are fed up with the lies and the bullying of an incompetent administration. Guess what, the main stream has become fed up with the current thugs in power in this country. They are fed up with the lies, the hypocrisy, the incompetence and the pure meanness.

Politics is a business. The dems focus on an issue, in this case the war in Iraq. That might be because it is on everyone’s mind (just a guess). The republicans used (family values) as their call to arms so that they could bring back honor and dignity to the White House. By the way, how is that working out for you? Ginrich was banging a whore while he was condemning Clinton for same. So far to republicans have been exposed, one more for banging a whore and the other for hitting on Congressional pages. It amazes me how you accuse Dems of doing something and yet do not condemn the republicans for doing the same.
 
I’m sorry, did I miss the bulletin when that notified the world that the republican party has become the party of tolerance?

Yes I fired a shot at the W idiot, and in your little tirade you shot quite a few as well. You just hide them in eloquent speech and innuendo, but they are there none the less. Insults such as “reactionaryâ€￾ and saying that they are happy as long as they get their way. As KC wrote above, “with us or against usâ€￾ and calling people a traitor for employing some of their constitutional guarantees. You seem ignore subtle points such as that when they speak directly against what you advocate.

While I agree that a plan should be offered to get us out of that cluster phuch in Iraq, I am curious as to why you do not hold the admin currently in power to that same standard? After all, they have had 4 years to come up with one. They do not have a plan. Why? Because there is no plan that will work. Iraq is in a civil war. When we leave, Iran and Syria will step in and that will fall directly at the feet of Cheney. Had they even paused to think about what they were doing perhaps America would not be in this mess.

The Dems are not going to concede what? That Iraq had nothing to do with terrorist attacks on the US. That OBL is still walking around free as a bird. That he is training his troops not in Iraq but in Pakistan. That most of the terrorists who were in those planes came from Saudi Arabia. That Cheney and Co went against the direct advice of their military leadership and sent less troops than were required. That we would not be welcomed as liberators? That the mission is no where near accomplished. That stem cell research could help countless people (ask Nancy Reagan). That the people of this country are fed up with the lies and the bullying of an incompetent administration. Guess what, the main stream has become fed up with the current thugs in power in this country. They are fed up with the lies, the hypocrisy, the incompetence and the pure meanness.

Politics is a business. The dems focus on an issue, in this case the war in Iraq. That might be because it is on everyone’s mind (just a guess). The republicans used (family values) as their call to arms so that they could bring back honor and dignity to the White House. By the way, how is that working out for you? Ginrich was banging a whore while he was condemning Clinton for same. So far to republicans have been exposed, one more for banging a whore and the other for hitting on Congressional pages. It amazes me how you accuse Dems of doing something and yet do not condemn the republicans for doing the same.

Yea, your right on target Gar!

Hope you get everything you ask for and more. 😉
 
As long as it is not duplicate of the war mongering, duplicitous, power hungry hypocritical, crooks we have now, I will be substantially happier than I am now.
 
. . . did I miss the bulletin when that notified the world that the republican party has become the party of tolerance?

Actually I do not use the word tolerance, though I do maintain that many republicans are actually liberally-minded individuals who do indeed possess a virtue that I would characterize as tolerance. In that sense Mr. Bush is a tolerant man who listens to other views. But he also remains quite true to his own personal and political views and could accurately be called stubborn though some would argue that this simply demonstrates character.

--- I'll pause for a moment of silence so that the democrats can shriek, throw bottles, and urinate on a picture of Cheney (BTW I do support your "right" to burn the flag though I don't reccomend doing so if a construction worker or a US Marine is nearby) 🙄 --​

And let's face it, politics and discussions political are necessarily heated things because many folks believe passionately in their party. So it's gonna get a little rough at times, just like college was at the frat house or when you're drinking with friends.

I must admit however, that republicans ( or use the word "conservative" if it keeps your nipples hard :wub: ) also possess a better sense of humor. Sure, they can also be caustic and cutting, but for the most part, they let the water roll off their backs. Democrats may hate Cheney, but give the guy his due, he knows how to fire them off ( though don't put a shot gun in his hands ). I was not a fan of President Reagan, but the guy sure had witty personality.

Democrats are more what I call "spit or swallow" divas who love to insult and misbehave on their own L-word terms, but are genuinely upset when the other side takes umbrage and fires back. Do you guys really think you can call folks names without someone calling you out on it? Most of us learn long ago that if you misbehave enough that someone is gonna smack ya.

So let's jump to the national level where Nancy and Hillary and Obamy and all of the other so-called true American "liberals" preside atop the national conscience which they insist represents the only reasonable moral and intellectual view for voters to entertain-- theirs!

These are the folks who are using terms such as " troops out now" , "failed policy", "find bin Laden", "failed presidency" , "conciliation towards Islamists" as a part of what they insist should be the national policy of these here United States of America. These democrats are the real people who are seeking to get their hands upon the levers of national power in which their words and their ideals will one day become real policy. So you can castigate B43 but those of us who look for snowballs to toss at Hillary et. al. are brazen hypocrites? :bleh:

That's why we have elections to put folks to the test. So excuse me if I scrutinize these folks, ponder their words and policy statements ( which IMO lack substance, definition and vision for anyone to arrive at an accurate interpretation ). And you know what? I'm doing my job as a citizen by questioning these folks and what they stand for.

But my views derive from how I define the word "liberal". And because of that, Garfield, my views and words do zig zag. Life is not the missionary position world of absolutes which so many democrats insist that it is. You paint your arguments in black and white terms and conditionalisms which insist that if only not for one man, one person, one thing, one happenstance, then the world would be completely different. I contend that the world and the issues in it are much more vibrant and complex -- shades of grey if you will which democrats refuse to see. In truth, all politicians cross their fingers and hope that voters are likewise colorblind to these grey nuances.

I had hoped for better when America goes into Iraq. Our policy makers fail to sense the road ahead of them ( then again, the democrats insisted that no road existed ). Our policy is executed badly, our troops remain in the line of fire, and the region shudders. But the Middle East and Islam already was what we all now realize it to be -- dysfunctional. Mr. Bush miscalculates, but the region and the people and cultures within in were dysfunctional before he acts and they remain so. Threats remain, challenges loom. realism.

Spit or swallow: America out now. Bush is a sh!thead. Liars, monsters, criminals, abortions. Yes, the democrats do indeed bring great substance to the political table don't they.

But it's OK because democrats are the "good guys" who fly the banner of liberalism. Their view is the world's view. The republicans are the "bad guys" because they are "conservatives". Gee guys, that's a wholesome way to see the world.

The word liberal means so much more than what democrats say it means. And no, the democrats do not "own" the word liberal as their own. To be a true liberal means to possess confidence in one's views while also keeping an impartial ear open to the other guy's thoughts, feelings, and opinions. You can still be true to yourself, but one just might make the world a better place to live in if they can embrace the true meaning of the word.

Ironically neither political party concedes this truer meaing of the word and both misuse and abuse the L-word. But I do believe that the sensibilities of the mainstream republican party is better adapted to incorporate elements of this liberalism I speak of than the democrats are.

Elections are still a ways off and the rancor will unfortunately continue unabated. But the real world and the real problems within, remain.

Barry
 
It is a shame you do not hold the Republicans to the same standard as the Dems. Your inability or unwillingness to do so is quite telling however.
 
It is a shame you do not hold the Republicans to the same standard as the Dems. Your inability or unwillingness to do so is quite telling however.
A bit off topic, but I was watching a biography channel show on Charles Manson the other night. Has anybody else noticed that Manson and Bush sound eerily similar?
 
It is a shame you do not hold the Republicans to the same standard as the Dems. Your inability or unwillingness to do so is quite telling however.


OK, if you want a simple black and white standard litmus test for politics, how about this? It at least ends the circule-jerk we're presently in.

Mr. Bush has already taken his stand, hence Afghanistan, Iraq, and everything else which now enrages the democrats. What's there to say? It is what it is.

If the democrats are really the genuine folks they claim to be ( looking only to serve the interests of country they claim to so love ) then utilize their power in the House and cut the funding for Iraq. It ends the war, brings the troops home and is decisive -- all in the name of the good of the country. Yes, I know, B43 will veto it, but it is indeed a decisive step which will compel Americans into making up their own minds for once and all about this whole mess. And the election choices will be very clear.

But wait! This would mean making a committment from which Nancy and Hillary could not wiggle out of or deny responsibility for. That's not what they want. All they want is to gain political power by any means necessary. They don't want clarity, in fact they require more smoke & innuendo to blur and confuse issues. Clarity can be dangerous in politics ( as Mr. Bush is finding for his positions ).

You see Garfield, the democrats are every bit as dirty as the republicans you so revile. At least B43 has taken a stand and continues to do so ( though even some GOP folks are jumping ship as well ). The alternative of course would be to practice partisan politics when possible and to take a stand and live or die by it when dialog does not work. But that would be inconsistent with the spit or swallow credo of the democrat party.

Let's put it to a vote Garfield. You may be correct. In either case, all parties would know that they genuinely stood for something.

Barry
 
hence Afghanistan, Iraq, and everything else which now enrages the democrats. What's there to say? It is what it is.
You need to modify that statement a bit. I don't believe many democrats or liberals had a single problem with Afghanistan. We were behind Bush when he went into Afghanistan. After all...the people that ATTACKED US were there. Where Bush lost this liberal was when he set his sights on Iraq...when the "leader of the pack" of the group that attacked us was still at large...because Saddam "posed a threat". Where Bush lost this liberal was when when he said that he "doesn't think about Osama much". I wonder how many families of 9/11 victims "don't think about Osama much" these days. I'm sure it was his macho way of saying "I'm not afraid of Osama". That must run in the Bush family, as his dad was really good about fishing, boating, and golfing just after he sent American troops to Kuwait in 1991. Let those boys fight the war...I'm teeing up on #5. But if I were president and I sent troops in harms way, I wouldn't find may way on the 6 o'clock news making comments from a cigarette boat.

The issue is IRAQ. Bush had the vast majority of the US behind him in the days following 9/11. He had the vast majority of the WORLD behind us in the days following 9/11. It's when his foolish arrogance towards the American people, the Congress, and the rest of the world led us into IRAQ that he started his own downhill slide. We've spent more time in Iraq than we did fighting an entire world war, where we beat Germany, and forced Japan to surrendar. And in THAT war, we had taken the planner of Pearl Harbor out in 16 months. So far, in the time it took us to emerge victorious against two enemies, the primary planner of the attacks on the US is STILL roaming the hills of the middle east. And our president "doesn't think about him much". Amazing.
 
We've spent more time in Iraq than we did fighting an entire world war, where we beat Germany, and forced Japan to surrendar. And in THAT war, we had taken the planner of Pearl Harbor out in 16 months.

Well now you have to realize your kind puts all kinds of PC restraints in the way war is prosecuted now...you know...how we treat those prisoners who'd cut your heart out in a second...or collateral damage when the enemy hides under womens skirts...and nukes...well they're just to touchy a subject to even talk about.So until the Lib's let war be fought the way it should......quit whining about what your side has caused.
 
Well now you have to realize your kind puts all kinds of PC restraints in the way war is prosecuted now...you know...how we treat those prisoners who'd cut your heart out in a second...or collateral damage when the enemy hides under womens skirts...and nukes...well they're just to touchy a subject to even talk about.So until the Lib's let war be fought the way it should......quit whining about what your side has caused.
You know something Dell...I wouldn't really have a problem with the way we are treating prisoners IF WE WERE DOING IT AFGHANISTAN INSTEAD OF IRAQ. Iraq had done nothing except have a crackpot leader, of which there is no shortage of those in this world, including our own president and vice president.

When you go into a country that did nothing to you, and end up mired down because you can't tell the enemy from the locals, whose fault is that? Shouldn't our leadership have given at least some thoughts of that, rather than proclaiming that we would be greeted with flowers and candy? Didn't they stop to think that if we engaged the locals in a war, our REAL enemy could infiltrate as just another citizen, making our job just that much harder? When WE went into a country that did nothing to us and then WE start treating "suspects" as we do (because our leadership encouraged it)- then do WE not begin to look just a little bit evil? I mean...Germany was the evil empire in WWII, but I don't think that every man who wore a German uniform was a evil person...they were just following the orders of their leader - who didn't go down in history the way HE wanted to either.
 
We were behind Bush when he went into Afghanistan.

KC, the dems have been behind Bush for a very long time . . . so that they can bugger him!

Afghanistan was indeed a no-brainer, wasn't it? Afterall, there you did have a (despotic) government, the Taliban, which was actively promoting al Qaeda's agenda.

Of course it gets a little tight around the collar for dems to admit that the other despot in the immediate area was Saddam. All sorts of political and military calculus went into that decision ( part of which required reading his mind for his real intentions, but I've not seen any politician capable of doing that ).

America FUBARed in Iraq, but not without having a reason to doubt the wisdom of leaving Saddam in place in the new post 9/11 world. The rest of the mistakes are history.

We've been through the Kerry I voted against before I voted for logic.

If you hate the war so much, tell Nancy et. al to vote to withhold funding for Iraq!

It's a genuine statement and a real action as oppossed to this circular argment stuff -- I'm tired of watching the democrat's spit or swallow credo evolve from "I support the troops but not the president" to " support our troops, get our of Iraq"

It's disingenuous and disparraging to those military families who are doing a job and following a command.

Time for democrats to take a stand and sink or swim with it. Or perhaps you guys don't trust in We the People if you ask us for a straight up vote.

Democrat and liberal. Democrats and democracy. Yeah right. 😛h34r:

Hey, we're still in Spain & I'm headin' to the chiringuito for some sangria. Take care!

Barry
 
Of course it gets a little tight around the collar for dems to admit that the other despot in the immediate area was Saddam. All sorts of political and military calculus went into that decision ( part of which required reading his mind for his real intentions, but I've not seen any politician capable of doing that )....

If you hate the war so much, tell Nancy et. al to vote to withhold funding for Iraq!
Oh so true...Saddam was a bad guy who "might" have done something to the US. How many other world leaders are there who "might" do something to the US but are still in power? Why was Saddam the worst of the worst? Looks to me like Saddam was keeping Iran in check...and now we're a tad worried about Iran.

"Nancy" et al tried to do just that buy forcing "George" to look at a timetable for withdrawl. They did it twice. George vetoed it twice. Now you seem to be following the logic that if one does not support the war, one does not support the troops...i.e., withhold funding for Iraq. I daresay that even the most diehard anti-war person would NEVER put our troops out to dry, as many on the right would seem to imply. They submitted TWO votes FOR funding, with a stipulation on a withdrawl plan from George. Fund the troops while we're there, but give us a plan for bringing them home. Sounds good to me. But apparently you think that Nancy et al should just vote to withhold funding. Period. Wouldn't the right wing talking heads have a FIELD day with that one?
 
apparently you think that Nancy et al should just vote to withhold funding. Period. Wouldn't the right wing talking heads have a FIELD day with that one?

Withhold the funding and they'll have no choice but to bring the troops home!

SH!T...or get of the Pot! :blink:
 
Withhold the funding and they'll have no choice but to bring the troops home!

SH!T...or get of the Pot! :blink:
A little "black and white with no room for gray" area there, huh 12? So yer either fer 'em or agin 'em. If you don't support the war, then do as the right says you should do and not support the troops as well.

Tell me the problem with approving funding, but specifying a withdrawl plan...seems to me that the troops have the money to insure their safety while they are there, and have a plan in place to bring them home. But you seem to think that if we are agin the war, then we HAVE to be agin the troops or we are a bunch of hypocrites.

Personally, I'd rather see our troops used to defend my country and my constitution rather than try to democratize a nation that really isn't all that interested in being democratized. Gotta go pretty soon...August is my vacation month too...it's nice to know that AMERICAN soliders are putting their lives on the line so the Iraqi pseudo government can take their annual vacation. I hope they slap a "Support their troops" ribbon on the back of their vacation vehicle of choice.
 
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