Sodas $3 Pillows and Blankets $5 apiece

[wopr21]

Well let's see here - Amtrak from PHL to BOS round trip is about $250 versus $1,000 flying on US. And - you have cell phone and internet service the entire trip when on Amtrak.

Bolt Bus from PHL to New York is $19.

So - no - I don't expect the same level of service on the train or the bus as when flying - particularly given the difference in what I'm paying.

If US can't give me a free can of soda on a $1,000 fare there isn't much hope for profitability any time soon.

Yeh but can a train get you there in 50 minutes. Thats what you are paying for, getting there fast. Why have people forgotten that?

wopr21

 

[SolidCactus]

How many flight attendants at WN are from other airlines? Hmmm I know a good 10 that were US and now WN so they MUST have that "southwest spirit".

I had read an article somewhere awhile ago about Southwest, and the article basically said that they hire based on personality. They would actually prefer NO previous experience. It is very understandable. Whether you guys know it or not, unfortunately, legacy airline employees have all been trained for many years that management cannot be trusted. Even if legacy airline employees were to quit and go to another company, they would by instinct not trust management. Right or wrong? It is a real shame... Most companies are great to their employees...

 

[InternationalShannon]

I had read an article somewhere awhile ago about Southwest, and the article basically said that they hire based on personality. They would actually prefer NO previous experience. It is very understandable. Whether you guys know it or not, unfortunately, legacy airline employees have all been trained for many years that management cannot be trusted. Even if legacy airline employees were to quit and go to another company, they would by instinct not trust management. Right or wrong? It is a real shame... Most companies are great to their employees...

Believe it or not, I started my career in training as a WN flight attendant...... Oh, I know, you're shocked right? Hired out of the group interview after I incorporated the new presumed hire happy dance and taught it to all the potential candidates. It only took three eight counts before they either hired me or kicked me out. Then I had to quit after some future ramper got me pregnanted.

Then I got classy and started my career with a little classy eastern airline I like to call GeniUS.

 

[SolidCactus]

Believe it or not, I started my career in training as a WN flight attendant...... Oh, I know, you're shocked right? Hired out of the group interview after I incorporated the new presumed hire happy dance and taught it to all the potential candidates. It only took three eight counts before they either hired me or kicked me out. Then I had to quit after some future ramper got me pregnanted.

Then I got classy and started my career with a little classy eastern airline I like to call GeniUS.

I'm sure your an awesome FA. One thing is for sure, even though most airline employees may not have a lot of faith in management, there is really something to be said for "perseverance" (i probably spelled that wrong)...

 

[InternationalShannon]

I'm sure your an awesome FA. One thing is for sure, even though most airline employees may not have a lot of faith in management, there is really something to be said for "perseverance" (i probably spelled that wrong)...

haha im not an FA anymore I'm "the gatekeeper" muuhahahahahaha......

 

[jimntx]

Have you noticed that no one has successfully copied SW. It is not possible. What they having going for them is their culture and it is not reproducible elsewhere.
In a very large part they are a product of the time and place of their childhood. You certianly cannot get legecy employees to produce like SW. And I doubt even a new carrier like Jet Blue starting from scratch can get SW like productivity from their people.

Only because legacy management has so poisoned the well of management-labor relations. The SWA culture is reproducible anywhere that management is willing to put employees first. This is particularly true in service industries. If all you have to sell is service you do NOT want disaffected, disgruntled, unhappy employees providing that service. In today's world there are only two things which differentiate one airline from another--ticket price and service. And, even more importantly PERCEIVED ticket price and service. WN has shown real marketing genius. WN is often not the lowest ticket price available, but if you ask the average consumer who has the cheapest tickets, they will answer Southwest. And, since I commute on WN frequently, let me add a personal note that seemingly happy employees who enjoy doing their work makes a BIG difference in the perceived service--even if it's only a plastic cup of Diet Coke and a small bag of peanuts.

 

[UPNAWAY]

I agree Jim but it is not so much bad legacy management (I would contend that airline management is not much different the management in other industries) but militant unionism that is the root of the problem. The industry as a hole is bad but US is even worse due to its PIT roots. The employees came from fathers that where steel and auto workers who came from fathers that where coal miners. The attitude is Union first, they work for the union not the company.
Now to the issue at hand is how does management take those attitudes that are generational in the making and get employees that have worked at US for 20-30 years to act like SW employees?
I think that is impossible.
The only way to change the culture now is over a long period of time and by mostly getting rid of all the old timers.

 

[jimntx]

Blaming the unions is not a viable argument when placed against the fact that WN is the MOST unionized airline in the industry. I think everyone except Herb and Colleen belong to some union. Maybe a particular union at a particular airline, but not unions in general.

 

[elixir]

I think it's more complex than that. Let's start with management who empathizes with employees....take the recent CAL story...management foregoes salary/bonus for the rest of the year due to some scaling back at the company. It is hard to place a value on that...it's teambuilding...it's unifying. How many airline managements do that?...maybe 2, CAL and SWA.

The BK happy CEO's and BOD's have placed a large and festering poison-pill in the industry..."force-majuere"...and all. Thats why there is such a large issue of trust.

Of course, militant unionism is a by-product of that.

Show the employees a management team that will roll up their sleeves, get dirty, and actually....RUN AN AIRLINE....and you get the keys to the kingdom.

.02

 

[UPNAWAY]

Blaming the unions is not a viable argument when placed against the fact that WN is the MOST unionized airline in the industry. I think everyone except Herb and Colleen belong to some union. Maybe a particular union at a particular airline, but not unions in general.

Jim SW employees are SW employees first union members second. In fact I think if Herb came to them and said to save the company we need to de-unionize they would vote to do that. They are unlike any other Airline employees. No legacy employees would do that. You can't just keep saying it is management, when they change all the time but the employees and the results do not!
I also believe that if you had "the manage type" that you guys are always clamoring for you would not even recognize it and you would be acting and performing in the exact same manor as now.

 

[trvlr64]

I agree Jim but it is not so much bad legacy management (I would contend that airline management is not much different the management in other industries) but militant unionism that is the root of the problem. The industry as a hole is bad but US is even worse due to its PIT roots. The employees came from fathers that where steel and auto workers who came from fathers that where coal miners. The attitude is Union first, they work for the union not the company.
Now to the issue at hand is how does management take those attitudes that are generational in the making and get employees that have worked at US for 20-30 years to act like SW employees?
I think that is impossible.
The only way to change the culture now is over a long period of time and by mostly getting rid of all the old timers.

What a total paragraph of CRAP!!

What else would I expect from someone west of the Mississippi river. PIT roots and a union mentality have nothing to do with the problems facing US.

 

[elixir]

Jim SW employees are SW employees first union members second. In fact I think if Herb came to them and said to save the company we need to de-unionize they would vote to do that. They are unlike any other Airline employees. No legacy employees would do that. You can't just keep saying it is management, when they change all the time but the employees and the results do not!
I also believe that if you had "the manage type" that you guys are always clamoring for you would not even recognize it and you would be acting and performing in the exact same manor as now.

That is the biggest piece of smoldering turd I have heard in a long time. I don't care if you East or West...thats fumunda.

 

[elixir]

Jim SW employees are SW employees first union members second. In fact I think if Herb came to them and said to save the company we need to de-unionize they would vote to do that. They are unlike any other Airline employees. No legacy employees would do that.

Interesting amount of faith you think they have in SWA management...where do you think that comes from?

You act like SWA employees are "Stepford Wives" or something...

It's called TRUST...and trust is EARNED...as described above. You are not acknowledging the core reason of SWA's sucess...they trust their management...why? Because they haven't been shafted by the company, the company RUNS the airline...PROACTIVELY...not reactively, and when they run out of answers, instead of going BK...they FIND the answer that still values the employees, instead of reaching for the concession button all the time.

Thats just the way it is.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Of course, militant unionism is a by-product of that.

Show the employees a management team that will roll up their sleeves, get dirty, and actually....RUN AN AIRLINE....and you get the keys to the kingdom.

.02

I think militant unions are more a by product of unions not management, in most unionized industries they are the norm not the exception.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Again if it is so easy, just be nice to the employees why has nobody been able to reproduce it? Look at the other unionized industries, the sucessful union/company realtionships are the exception not the rule! Compare that with the non union industries and it is the rule not the exception!
Who is the ones wearing rose colored glasses or drinking the coolaide?