PAX " Bill of Rights "

Flyboy4u

Veteran
Oct 6, 2002
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Upset airline passengers call for passenger "Bill of Rights"
Posted Jan 26th 2007 2:41PM by Brian White
Filed under: Bad news, Rumors, Consumer experience, Southwest Airlines (LUV), US Airways Group (LCC), AMR Corp (AMR), Contl Airlines'B' (CAL), UAL Corp (UAUA)

Ever been delayed on an airport tarmac, sitting in a stuffy plane with a few hundred others, twiddling your thumbs and mentally pulling your hair out while receiving absolutely no communication from the airline and very little in the way of communications from the captain?

To those hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) who have faced this highly annoying situation before, some rather disgusted airline passengers in Austin, Texas have decided that they will not take it anymore. They have suggested an airline passenger "bill of rights" that seeks to get the major airlines into compliance regarding the care of its bread-n-butter: paying passengers.

The "bill of rights" proposal would require airlines to return passengers to terminal gates after three hours on the tarmac. I'd like to see that at two hours personally, but three is better than ten. The proposal would also impose penalties on airlines for losing baggage and bumping passengers. Hooray! Although I've only lost my bags a few times when flying, the process to get my belongings back was one of the most frustrating things I have ever experienced. Additionally, the proposal would create a consumer committee to review and investigate complaints.

Gone are the days of setting high expectations for consumers and passengers of the airline industry (or so it seems), but maybe this proposal will shed some new light on the situation millions of us have faced.
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Reader Comments
(Page 1)
1. WELL WHAT ABOUT A BILL OF RIGHTS FOR IRRATE PASSENGERS?IF YOU ARENT GOING TO BE QUIET, CLEAN, NEAT, WELL BEHAVED THEN SHOULD WE AS EMPLOYEES HAVE THE RIGHT TO KEEP YOU OFF OF THE AIRPLANE? WHAT IF YOU DONT FOLLOW THE RULES ABOUT CARRY ON BAGS OR WEIGHT LIMITS ON CHECKED BAGS? WHAT SHOULD WE DO THERE? HOLD THEM OFF? REMEMBER IT WORKS BOTH WAYS. IF YOU ACT LIKE A GREYHOUND PASSENGER ON AN AIRCRAFT THEN EXPECT TO BE TREATED LIKE ONE!

Posted at 6:08PM on Jan 27th 2007 by PETE

2. A passenger "Bill of Rights" already exists on American Airlines. Perhaps while you are sitting on an airplane next time "twiddling your thumbs" you might take the opportunity to read it. Might want to read the safety briefing card too. Most planes are different and so is each situation.
david bowen, Miami

Posted at 7:50PM on Jan 29th 2007 by david bowen

3. As a current employee of over 20 years for one of the " Big " ones, I just couldnt sit and not respond. As to the first comment, HARSH! What are ya, like a 2 year employee? Your points are valid, but NO psgrs behavior warrants a 3hr sit on the ramp prior to takeoff. That psgr shouldnt have been boarded in the first place if they are that bad. Answer the question raised. I am the first to agree with you that there are THOUSANDS of stories I could tell about "out of control Passengers", and there needs to be some protection for us in that regard, but this is about the airline's policies ABUSING the rights of the flying public. As to the 2nd comment, MY airline has a policy about keeping the public updated in a delay situation EVERY 10 MINUTES, and I have seen this implemented in MOST of my career. I can't help but state that Americans policy also includes LEAVING THE GATE ON TIME, even though it might mean a 2hr sit at the end of the runway due to ATC delays; just so they dont have to REPORT a delay, and see it reflected every week in the USA TODAY! The D.O.T. keeps track of all those stat's, so that is a real easy way for the "Official Airline Of The Oprah Winfrey Show" to get around it. Lets be perfectly honest here people. Now, here's something that NO ONE has mentioned. ALL airlines have had SERIOUS labor cutbacks, and my own staffing is crap the last 5 years. IF this movement is enacted by law...that would require the airlines to staff so that they DONT take captive of thier audiences, and to staff so that your bag WILL arrive with you, ( and we all know that the only way that will happen is if there are more than 2 agents loading a flight. The airlines took advantage of thier own people for profit in the last few years...this law if passed which holds them personally and financially accountable would only IMPROVE the current trend of Layoffs and Outsourcing that has become the norm in this industry. Better for you the psgr, and better for me the employee. Let's get back to where we were a few years back. Am I wrong? You know I'm not. Staffing is the key.

Posted at 2:33AM on Jan 30th 2007 by steve

4. Pete Said>>>IF YOU ACT LIKE A GREYHOUND PASSENGER ON AN AIRCRAFT THEN EXPECT TO BE TREATED LIKE ONE!


This is the attitude I'm talking about! Hey, Pete, If you want to shout your comments what should we do? Maybe Hold You Out!

Posted at 12:01PM on Jan 30th 2007 by LRR

5. WELL STEVE IN RESPONSE TO YOUR 2 YR COMMENT, I GOT YA BEAT! TRY 23 YRS. AND IF THE LAW GOES THRU, UNLIKE YOUR WISHFUL THINKING, THE AIRLINES ARENT GOING TO HELP YOU OUT BY HIRING MORE PEOPLE. THEY WILL OUTSOURCE THE WORK WITH MORE PEOPLE JUST NOT YOU AND I. CORPERATIONS, ESPECIALLY THE AIRLINES, DONT GIVE A CRAP ABOUT THEIR EMPLOYEES. IF THEY DID, THEY WOULD GIVE BACK SOME OF THE PAY THEY TOOK INSTEAD OF GIVING THEMSELVES OUTRAGEOUS BONUSES. THEIR ARMS HURT SO MUCH FROM PATTING THEMSELVES ON THE BACK ITS SICK! TAKE FOR INSTANCE AN EXAMPLE OF A GOODWILL GESTURE THAT UNITED COULD HAVE TAKEN IN OCTOBER. MR TILTON AND MR MCDONALD GAVE THEMSELVES HEALTHY BONUSES WHICH TOTALLED A LITTLE OVER $62 MILLION. NOW IF THEY HAD REALLY LOOKED AT WHO MADE THE SACRIFICES SO THE COMPANY COULD COME OUT OF BANKRUPTCY AND TURN A PROFIT, THEN THE EMPLOYEES WOULD HAVE GOTTEN SOMETHING. WHAT THEY COULD HAVE DONE WAS GIVEN ALL THE UNION EMPLOYEES, IAM, AFA,AMFA, AND THE PILOTS A $1 RAISE BACK ONTO THEIR SALERIES. YEARLY IF EVERY EMPLOYEE WORKED MAX HOURS, WHICH MOST DONT, WOULD HAVE COST UNITED ABOUT $72 MILLION A YEAR! SO WHO IS MAKING OUT HERE? 2 GUYS WHO DONT NEED ANYMORE MONEY, OR ABOUT 40,000 WHO PUT THIS AIRLINE ON THEIR BACKS FOR THE LAST 10 YRS?

Posted at 12:52PM on Jan 30th 2007 by PETE

6. I concur with Steve about the airlines wanting to push off the gate on time, however the DOT does not track on time performance of when you leave the gate.
On time performance is only tracked at the arrival, and only on domestic flights. If you push late but arrive less than 15 minutes late, you're on time. If it is an International flight, the times are not tracked. Pushing ontime then sitting for two hours does not create a brownie point with the DOT. you're still late on the arrival. push 30 minutes late but make up 16 minutes of it, you're considered on time by DOT standards.

Posted at 9:05AM on Feb 1st 2007 by Keith

7. I have been a flight attendant for well over 20 years. If we get an airline bill of rights, then we need a fastfood one, we need a DMV bill of rights, a hair salon bill of rights and so forth and so on...life is sometimes tough...people just need to learn to deal. Think about how fast it takes you to get from point A to point B and every once in a while you are inconvenienced. Stuff happens!

Posted at 8:39PM on Feb 1st 2007 by Wanda Kerr

8. I was a flight attendant, pilot, now a passenger. I see NO REASON that passengers should EVER be held on a tarmac. Airline Management should be held responsible for the pilots, attendants, passengers, cargo and assets. Move the plane BACK or "IN" immediately not 3 hrs or more. Cargo, fuel, maintenance, passengers, crew are all valuable and deserve an immediate response. Praise to the pilot who made his "own" decision to go back. Praise to the airline that went back to dump the yelling child. Praise to the lawyers suing the airlines for severe mental torture. Get a clue Airline Managment NOW!

Posted at 8:52PM on Feb 1st 2007 by Lucky

9. geez take a road trip. if you get pissed you can always slap the driver.

Posted at 9:07PM on Feb 1st 2007 by rachel

10. Doesn't really encourage me to want to fly any more.


Posted at 9:30PM on Feb 1st 2007 by Marilyn

11. I just have to say that I am getting pretty sick and tired of people putting new laws and procedures into my daily life. If you don't like something, make a law or bill. That will fix all. I have to wear a seatbelt, can't smoke in public, soon I won't be allowed to give my kids a little spank when they know they have it coming! Americans have taken a free country and slowly turned it into a place where a new rule book needs to be published every quarter. At least I can still drive my gas guzzling car and live in my coal burning house and fly on a jet fuel guzzling plane. How long until all that is regulated? What is it exactly we are looking foward to? Nevermind, I will always be able to use too much oil. That is how the politicians in office are soo FILTHY RICH!!!

THE REGULATED STATES OF AMERICA

Posted at 10:00PM on Feb 1st 2007 by Trevor

12. I FEEL FOR THE PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR THE AIRLINES I FLY TO COSTA RICA EVERY 3 MONTHS IM TREATED WELL AND HANG OUT WITH THEM IN THE BACK OF THE PLANE, BLESS YOU, THERE ARE PERSONS THAT HAVE NO RESPECT FORGET THEM JULIAN

Posted at 10:11PM on Feb 1st 2007 by JULIAN

13. In response to the comment left by Wanda, "life is sometimes tough...people just need to learn to deal...Stuff happens!" - are you kidding me? Sitting on a tarmac for 3+ hours? Would you sit in a drive-thru for 3 hours? The salon? Why don't you come to my hospital after you've suffered a trauma and are in dire need of a blood transfusion? I'll try to get your blood to you before 3 hours has elapsed and if not I'll just tell your lifeless corpse to deal with it; after all "stuff happens!"

Posted at 10:13PM on Feb 1st 2007 by Andrea

14. 12. I agree with Trevor's point of view of America.
This country now has gotten beyond ridiculous. Other people want and expect your to live up to their demenors. As far as I am concerned, America is beyond ruined.

Posted at 10:13PM on Feb 1st 2007 by Joseph Blazewicz

15. I do believe we need to have a passenger bill of rights, but the passengers need to know they will have to cover the costs. I also believe that out of control and violent passengers should be removed from planes and should be put in jail with a large fine. We are not wrestlers or boxers we don't come to work to be beaten up. I would like to see all airlines start following the luggage rules and charging for the over sized and excessive bags. If you want food on a flight either bring your own or pay for us to give you something. In the 12 years I have been a Flight Attendant I have never heard someone say the food is good so why don't people just buy it in the airport. They have all kinds of choices. We all know its the top guys roobing us blind it is happening at every company in the U.S. I would like to see the government do something about that. I would also like to see unions become something you can decide to belong to if you want but are not forced to join and pay dues. That way we can fire them when they don't do their job. I ecspecially mean the IAM.

Posted at 10:22PM on Feb 1st 2007 by onnie

16. I have never been an airline employee.
I have been a passenger several times.
It is rediculous to make people sit for 3 hours IN THEIR SEATS. With no access to the lavatories. Threatening them with the FBI, or whoever, if they attempt to use the facilities. I am sure as an employee that this is not your situation. Still, there should be some rights available to the passenger.
If you do not think so ... never do what you prevent others from doing.
That was my last flight.
Airlines suck.
I do not travel where I cannot walk or swim home.
I supported the bail out of the Airlines after 911.
Not any more. Better not ever need another cent if I can ever be of any influence at all.

Have a Blessed Day. A Sonny Day :)

Posted at 10:25PM on Feb 1st 2007 by Dave

17. Ten hours on an airplane with no water, no food, and overflowing toilets should be considered kidnapping or unlawful detention, frankly. As a diabetic, I carry enough with me to get over the time of the flight plus three or four hours, but count this flight time, with only a small snack, and then no water, and sitting on the tarmac ten hours, and I would have been in deep trouble, especially if the other drinks, such as juice, were gone, as well.
Once, I traveled on American Airlines, and one commenter mentioned they have a Bill of Rights - that surely must be a recent development. I use a wheelchair, they checked my electric one, then failed to meet me at both my connections, treated all of us with mobility problems simply dreadfully, and then on the return flight, THEY LOST MY WHEELCHAIR. MY ELECTRIC WHEELCHAIR. I was frantic. Those things are expensive, and the insurance surely wouldn't replace it, and their attitude was BIG DEAL. They even tried to tell me they were not responsible for replacing it. I TOLD THEM I KNEW THE RULES AND THEY DAMN WELL WERE. It took me three days to get it, and it was banged and cut up, and I have yet to get the cost of repairing it out of them, despite four letters, submission of the receipts, etc. I SHALL NEVER, EVER FLY AMERICAN AIRLINES, AGAIN.

Posted at 10:26PM on Feb 1st 2007 by Brenda Thornton

18. For far too many years the ailines have 'walked all over' the passengers. The lins are always right, and the passenger is always wrong! ! ! I have personally seen injustices done by the airlines, and if you raise too much od a legal objection you'll be arrested by airport police. It's time for the FA to step heavily on the aiorlines, and give the passengers their rights.

Posted at 10:46PM on Feb 1st 2007 by Phil "Buck" Owens

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eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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If it passes, look for airlines to simply cancel "for safety reasons" rather than risk paying out compensation, and to start charging for checked bags as a way of offsetting any compensation for mishandlings.
 

Itestwell

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Didn't passengers recently find themselves sitting on an MD80 from SFO-DFW, diverted to AUS, for something like 9 hours, with toilets overflowing? How is that "paying for what I get?" :blink:

I believe recent incidents like that is fueling the fire.....
 

FA Mikey

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goldwatermiller08.com
Airline service has been in the news frequently since the Dec. 29 incidents. A group of passengers, led by Kate Hanni of Napa, Calif., has formed a coalition pushing Congress to pass an "Airline Passengers Bill of Rights." Hanni was on board American Flight 1348 from San Francisco to D/FW that was diverted to Austin, where the plane sat for more than eight hours on an airport tarmac.

"My family and I were held hostage," Hanni told reporters during a recent conference call. She and other passengers said toilets overflowed and passengers lacked food and information.

Officials with American, however, are disputing some of the passengers' complaints. Frizzell pointed out that 10 passengers on Hanni's flight who were heading to San Antonio, Houston or Austin were allowed to leave the plane. The remaining passengers received a status report from the pilots every 30 minutes. He said that snacks and beverages were provided, and the airplane was reloaded a second time with snacks, drinks and ice.

Toilets, Frizzell said, never overflowed. "In fact, the toilets were serviced at the earliest opportunity by ground crews," he said.

story here
 

Hopeful

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Dec 21, 2002
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Didn't passengers recently find themselves sitting on an MD80 from SFO-DFW, diverted to AUS, for something like 9 hours, with toilets overflowing? How is that "paying for what I get?" :blink:

I believe recent incidents like that is fueling the fire.....


By the way, was anyone held accountable for this debacle?

Did anyone's head roll?
 

eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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By the way, was anyone held accountable for this debacle?

Did anyone's head roll?

Depends on what you call being held accountable.

Do you blindly believe what the media or a blog reports as being the absolute truth on any given topic, or do you believe in the concept of innocent until proven otherwise?
 

ThirdSeatHero

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Dec 8, 2004
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Depends on what you call being held accountable.

Do you blindly believe what the media or a blog reports as being the absolute truth on any given topic, or do you believe in the concept of innocent until proven otherwise?

Not that a PAX "Bill of Rights" is anything more than a knee-jerk reaction to the likes of the AUS debacle, but just what part of the AUS incident are you infering is false or mis-represented by the media?
 

FA Mikey

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Aug 19, 2002
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goldwatermiller08.com
Not that a PAX "Bill of Rights" is anything more than a knee-jerk reaction to the likes of the AUS debacle, but just what part of the AUS incident are you infering is false or mis-represented by the media?

Media quote
The pilot on the flight -– AA Flight 1348 –- declined to give his name to the Morning News, but said the incident was the first time he had encountered such a scenario. "If I had a place to physically put the plane, I would do it," he told the paper.

Passengers, of course, were not pleased about being stuck on the jet. Overflowing bathrooms were among the top complaints. "The bathrooms have gone from a gas station to, 'What's the last concert you've been to?'

Airline Info

Officials with American, however, are disputing some of the passengers' complaints. Frizzell pointed out that 10 passengers on Hanni's flight who were heading to San Antonio, Houston or Austin were allowed to leave the plane. The remaining passengers received a status report from the pilots every 30 minutes. He said that snacks and beverages were provided, and the airplane was reloaded a second time with snacks, drinks and ice. American says a worker did empty toilet tanks on Flight 1348.
 

Hopeful

Veteran
Dec 21, 2002
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Depends on what you call being held accountable.

Do you blindly believe what the media or a blog reports as being the absolute truth on any given topic, or do you believe in the concept of innocent until proven otherwise?


So tell me, FM, how long did that aircraft sit on the ground?

You can hardly get to people to go along with something, let alone a planeload of passengers conspiring against an airline!
 

AMFAMAN

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Jul 23, 2003
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How about we start an "Employees Bill of Rights." You know one that requires that employees of airlines will:

...not be required to subsidize the low cost of air travel.

...not be required to subsidize increases in fuel costs in order to keep fares low.

...not be required to work 2 jobs so passengers can fly to Disney World for $99 roundtrip only to pay $75 a day to go on a ride...Of course they never #### about the price of Disney.



Anymore... :p
 

Hawkhunter

Veteran
Jul 11, 2005
577
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How about we start an "Employees Bill of Rights." You know one that requires that employees of airlines will:

...not be required to subsidize the low cost of air travel.

...not be required to subsidize increases in fuel costs in order to keep fares low.

...not be required to work 2 jobs so passengers can fly to Disney World for $99 roundtrip only to pay $75 a day to go on a ride...Of course they never #### about the price of Disney.
Anymore... :p

Good one!
 

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
4,421
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miami
goldwatermiller08.com
How about we start an "Employees Bill of Rights." You know one that requires that employees of airlines will:

...not be required to subsidize the low cost of air travel.

...not be required to subsidize increases in fuel costs in order to keep fares low.

...not be required to work 2 jobs so passengers can fly to Disney World for $99 roundtrip only to pay $75 a day to go on a ride...Of course they never #### about the price of Disney.
Anymore... :p
Sometimes referred to as a Collective bargaining agreement.
 

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
4,421
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miami
goldwatermiller08.com
American Airlines Inc. says it won't hold passengers on grounded aircraft more than four hours, a policy born from its December debacle in which thousands of passengers spent hours waiting for storms to pass inside crowded, parked planes.

American spokesman Tim Wagner said the Dec. 29 situation was so rare that American veterans can't recall a similar day when weather disrupted operations in such a way.

Even so, the Fort Worth-based carrier decided that in the future, four hours will be the maximum they would hold a flight before deciding to cancel it and unload the passengers.

"It's a rule now," Mr. Wagner said. "It's a rule that may never be used again, though."

story here