Song Is A "mistake" Says Grinstein

[FWAAA]

Vike,

And you call yourself what? I would call you full of B$ and a Delta management suck up! Keep drinking the Kool-Aid with all of your non-union friends. How was that pay raise that all of the DL f/a's received for the past 2 years? Since you didn't get them, I bet it sucked! Even know we took a paycut (a very controversial one) we still are receiving a contractual pay increase every year. In 2006 we open contract talks with AA and we will get back what we lost or it will be STRIKE time! See we can STRIKE, negotiate, information picket and much more to get what we want! Can you do this at DL? NO! If you do it, then as Donald Trump says "You're FIRED!"

[post="169957"][/post]​

Hey Hotel, sorry to break this to you but your contract runs thru 2008; the early opener in 2006 doesn't permit you to strike. If you strike before 2008, you will be fired. Check with your union reps. You've mentioned this in other posts, but you are incorrect.

And you must be on crack to think that you're gonna get it all back in your lifetime.

And the raises you are getting? 1.5% per year? Funny how you're so proud of them now. Guess the company is right - the employees will believe anything that's fed to them. B)

 

[flyhigh]

RDU-

Mgmt has given...twice now injust the time I've been here. As an expense line, G&A (where mgmt falls) is a very small portion of the overall labor expense. In addition, all other groups have given. The other key difference is that when the old mgmt team of this company gave away the farm and overpaid the pilots on the contract, nobody else got that level of a raise. In the end, however, it appears that all other works groups will give for a third time so the brats can give once.

 

[luv2fly]

RDU-

In the end, however, it appears that all other works groups will give for a third time so the brats can give once.

[post="170154"][/post]​

Any credibility you had just flew out the window. If your attitude is any indication of managments attitude, we are destined for the courthouse.

 

[flyhigh]

...and this ruins one's credibility why? Is it because I'm repeating what a whole lot of people of people saying? Because I don't believe in the pilot's "cause" to save the profession? Because I think it is wrong to hold a company and the many thousands of other workers in peril all for personal greed (in an organized fashion)? The reality is that if the pilots demand that everyone else give, it will be the third donation the entire rest of the organization will be giving, only so we can see one concession from the pilot group.

Have you ever sat back and wondered why people have a growing disdain for the pilot group? Some of us long for the day when unmanned technolofy makes it's way to the commercial world...

 

[LiveInAHotel]

my follow up question is still relevant.

So tell us, how exactly did your union membership save you "millons of dollars" in give backs to AA under Carty?

[post="170045"][/post]​

I already answered your question. You even supplied the link to it. If you're that stupoid and can't read an answer maybe you should seek help. All but the 27% of you are brainwashed and Delta's little robots. You take all the crap they give you and think this is normal and how an airline is run.

 

[LiveInAHotel]

...and this ruins one's credibility why? Is it because I'm repeating what a whole lot of people of people saying? Because I don't believe in the pilot's "cause" to save the profession? Because I think it is wrong to hold a company and the many thousands of other workers in peril all for personal greed (in an organized fashion)? The reality is that if the pilots demand that everyone else give, it will be the third donation the entire rest of the organization will be giving, only so we can see one concession from the pilot group.

Have you ever sat back and wondered why people have a growing disdain for the pilot group? Some of us long for the day when unmanned technolofy makes it's way to the commercial world...

[post="170191"][/post]​

Please tell us why the pilots should take a 30% $1 Billion dollar hit to save all of the non-union work groups? Its not the pilots job to think about the other work groups on the Delta property. The only concern is for them and their best interests a nd not everyone elses. You should have thought about that when the AFA was trying to help all of you out. If you had voted yes, you would also be negotiating with Delta on concessions at this time. Instead you hound the pilots and expect them to take the hit for all of you Kool-Aid drinkers. I hope they get flight attendant jumpseat authorization, it will serve all of you right!

Go ALPA DL, stick it to management and stay UNIFIED!

 

[LiveInAHotel]

And the raises you are getting? 1.5% per year?

[post="170071"][/post]​

Hey Barney,

It may not be a great raise each year but at least it's better then management saying "sorry you can't have a raise this year or next year or the year after that."

I know we can't strike in 2006 and I never said we could. I said we open talks in 2006 and if we don't get what we want we can strike. I never said what year that would be! You should learn how to read a paragraph and what people write before you comment.

 

[luv2fly]

...and this ruins one's credibility why? Is it because I'm repeating what a whole lot of people of people saying? Because I don't believe in the pilot's "cause" to save the profession? Because I think it is wrong to hold a company and the many thousands of other workers in peril all for personal greed (in an organized fashion)? The reality is that if the pilots demand that everyone else give, it will be the third donation the entire rest of the organization will be giving, only so we can see one concession from the pilot group.

Have you ever sat back and wondered why people have a growing disdain for the pilot group? Some of us long for the day when unmanned technolofy makes it's way to the commercial world...

[post="170191"][/post]​

And now the pilots are holding DL hostage? How many other atrocities are you going to try and blame on this one employee group. You don't have to believe in any pilot's cause. You do have to believe that pilots will not be your saviour, and I will not blindly give to a managment team that has not demonstated it is any different than the previous management team which you brilliantly lambasted.
You claim there is disdain for the pilot group. I hear the disdain for our management on the line every week. As for your desire for unmanned technology, good luck. You will not see it in your lifetime.

 

[WorldTraveler]

RDUJetblast,
As mentioned, the answers to these questions can be seen in any company's proxy statement and annual report on form 10K which are available on the company's website. Since Delta hasn't announced any paycuts for anyone during this round, it is hard to know how much the pain will be shared. However, DL has previously said that VPs and above have already taken 10% plus paycuts. DL's execs are not overly compensated compared with other airlines and nearly all of the old guard that supported the retention bonuses are gone as well; DL and AMR made the same mistake w/ retention bonuses and clearly the best way to deal with the problem is to get rid of the people who supported them and move on. The retention bonuses, if fully funded were supposed to amount to about $60 million dollars spread among about 35 people. The pilots are being asked to cough up $1B spread among approx 7000 pilots; in comparison, the pilots contribution is much smaller per person and the total size of the executive bonuses are really small in comparison. I'm not sanctioning what Delta did but all of the talk about excess compensation for executives is more about perception than any significant impact on a company's balance sheet. Nonetheless, Delta and AA have both learned their lessons and are not likely to repeat those mistakes again any time soon.

 

[aislehopper]

I already answered your question. You even supplied the link to it. If you're that stupoid and can't read an answer maybe you should seek help. All but the 27% of you are brainwashed and Delta's little robots. You take all the crap they give you and think this is normal and how an airline is run.

[post="170204"][/post]​

Actually, if you gave any answer at all, it was incorrect. APFA gave up as much as
Carty demanded. Given that APFA gave up as much as Carty demanded, then us, how exactly did your union membership save you "millons of dollars" in give backs to Carty?

Can you form an effective answer, or are you John Ward's little robot spewing out whatever rationale APFA programmed you at the time?

 

[LiveInAHotel]

Actually, if you gave any answer at all, it was incorrect. APFA gave up as much as
Carty demanded. Given that APFA gave up as much as Carty demanded, then us, how exactly did your union membership save you "millons of dollars" in give backs to Carty?

Can you form an effective answer, or are you John Ward's little robot spewing out whatever rationale APFA programmed you at the time?

[post="170322"][/post]​

It's obvious you have no brain or know how to read. I learned that in Kew at the Lefferts House when we met. The APFA saved us 7.4% in paycuts!! AA wanted 23% from us and they got it down to 15.6%. If we were Delta f/a's they would have just taken all 23% and said "sorry suckers!"

You're barely hanging on working at Delta. If Song dies and it sounds like it will, your a$$ is on the street. You don't have the flowback option to mainline like some people do.

Here is a place to work if you get furloughed (for the second time): CS

 

[FWAAA]

It's obvious you have no brain or know how to read. I learned that in Kew at the Lefferts House when we met. The APFA saved us 7.4% in paycuts!! AA wanted 23% from us and they got it down to 15.6%. If we were Delta f/a's they would have just taken all 23% and said "sorry suckers!"

[post="170354"][/post]​

You're too funny.

AA demanded $340 million from the APFA, and that's what AA got.

That AA reduced the percentage paycut merely means that AA took the rest of the money from the APFA thru other changes to your precious contract. Work rule changes or percentage paycuts - it all equals $340 million less each year (and probably more than that).

All I hear from FAs is how terrible John Ward is; you turn out to be his biggest fan, what with all that money he saved you and the other FAs. B)

 

[RDU Jetblast]

Thanks traveller. I don't read financials well enough to trust what I read. This helps a lot.

 

[s80dude]

In theory, what would happen if Delta were to shutter Song and bring the planes back to mainline? Would the employees who left for Song get to have their jobs back at big brother? Were there provisons in place to secure that?

 

[DLFlyer31]

Maybe Song isn't so hated afterall.

"Wall Street has it wrong," said the source. "Song is doing just fine. Song is growing. John Selvaggio [head of Song] knows what he's doing. And good things are coming down the pike in the coming weeks."


Of course, we don't know the accuracy of the source, but it can't be any worse than the accuracy of the article that said Grinstein disliked Song.

Story Here