Southwest cuts walk-up fares 25%

[Busdrvr]

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On 8/30/2002 4:51:39 PM

Jetdoc, let's not go there. UAL has a superb safety record and runs a very safe operation. It's something any UAL employee can be proud of.

You're correct that this is becoming a Yahoo-level discussion, but you must accept some responsiblity for that by playing Busdrvr's game.
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Rhino, thanks for the sanity check. I apologize for spinning up on you. This string started with some back and forth about boarding policy, seat selection, and cities served at UAL vs SWA. Except for cities served, they are pretty similar, with the major diff being reserved seats. I even offered my perspective that you might be able to better serve by giving out "priority" boarding to your FF. then came the stab in the back from your "professional" mech.

"Hey busdrvr, I admire you guys at UAL. You work for the worlds largest airline, (oops, forgot), the most financially secure, (oops, forgot), the largest on the west coast, (oops, forgot). Come to think of it I don't admire you guys, I kinda feel sorry for ya! Good luck with 'da Judge in the very near future pal,"

This from someone who reportedly has friends at U and UAL. With friends like that... I will defend UAL to the end. I know we've had our probs in the past. but the truth is we are near the top consistantly in most operational statistics lately. We do this despite a much tighter schedule than CAL and AMR (they give them selves a good bit more "scheduled" time to some of the busiest cities.). Now I ask you, what is the proper response to your "professional" mechanic? All the info I presented was public domain and reported in the papers. But I didn't mention it, and wouldn't have, had it not been for the twisting Knife from your gloating "professional". Gosh, and I see from his response, he just couldn't resist another "professional" stab on the way out. best of luck to you Rhino, and here's to many MANY years of friendly competition. As always, once the @%#%^#^ Feds let us, you're always welcome on my jumpseat (or ..my captains jumpseat
[] )

 

[WNjetdoc]

busdrvr, this whole thread went to the toilet with your comment about WN's business travlers and the class they must be in...what did you say, "whatta burger"? So I will defend WN with all my heart. If you don't like it, too bad. I will for sure not allow you to spew your smart @ss commnets about WN. When I defend WN by returning in kind you go right to bringing up WN's runway incidents and the brilliant retorts about panels and screws...ouch, *s*. I am simply "counter punching" you pal. I will continue to do so. Go back and see how the threads went down hill. It started with you. You also have a track record for coming over to the WN board and starting trouble. You even started a thread with negative news on WN, remember? "SWA leading the Pack", it was about having 8 of 10 flights arriving late. You then said, "Good thing Eagle was there to take two slots. I see you do it cheaper, just not on time." Just typical posts you make busdrvr. You're not getting away with it while I'm around pal. I could stay very busy if I wanted to do the same over on the UAL board, there is tons of negative news out there. To me you do a lot of flame baiting.

 

[Busdrvr]

Hey, I see I'm not needed if you're gonna keep reminding folks of your shortcomings!! Thanks[:bigsmile:] . I pretty sure there are NO whataburgers in DEN (there is a PappaDeuxs though). If you do business in DEN, SWA is of NO use to you!! That's my point!!! If you do business in TX, AZ, an CA, then you're great. Do you get it now? Do you not see that "ha ha you're going BK" is a little out of line? I apologize to those I've offended buy bringing up your shortcomings. Do I want ALL your pax to come fly my airline? Absolutely. Would I find joy in you losing your job? No way, never!!

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 8/30/2002 741 PM

busdrvr, this whole thread went to the toilet with your comment about WN's business travlers and the class they must be in...what did you say, "whatta burger"?

Again I'm not your pal. What-a-burger is a hugely sucessful franchise in the SW. I'm sure the CEO prob makes more than all of us combined. but the fact is, they don't have a lot of stores in small towns throughout the US. Despite flying more miles than U, SWA serves I think about half the number of cities, and of those cities, there are quite a few that you "can't get to from here". Will SWA ever serve "every city"? Prob not. It's not in the model. as Mike Boyd has been pointing out in the media (and the WSJ had an editorial on this fact), it will never be profitable for SWA to have 5 flights a day from Lansing MI to florida. SWA serves ONLY the cities they think they can serve PROFITABLY with the Guppy. That leaves all the other cities the exclusive domain of the hub and spokes. SWA cherry picks. Do I think it is healthy for small town when SWA entices pax to travel long distances away from the local airport to save a few bucks on vacation? No. It will prob lead to a migration of businesses to only the larger cities. but it's a free market.

"So I will defend WN with all my heart. If you don't like it, too bad. I will for sure not allow you to spew your smart @ss commnets about WN. When I defend WN by returning in kind you go right to bringing up WN's runway incidents and the brilliant retorts about panels and screws...ouch, *s*. I am simply "counter punching" you pal. I will continue to do so. Go back and see how the threads went down hill. It started with you."

Yep started when I mentioned What-a-burger? Then you go nuclear? Even if you missunderstood the meaning of my post concerning "what-a-burger" I don't see how a rational individual can think your response was "in kind". So lets see, if I said "your business travs are the fry guys at what-a-burger" and then "Ha, HA, you're going BK and all of you are losing your livelihoods" is in kind and appropriate? WOW!! In any case, it looks like you've got better things to do than argue with me. Just saw that Boeing wants ALL the guppies and 747s (and another model?) to have the fuel pumps checked in the next 4 days. Looks like a lot of overtime this weekend. Jets are hugely complicated machines and you have my Kudo's for your efforts in keeping them in the air on a daily basis. It's an underappreciated job.

"You also have a track record for coming over to the WN board and starting trouble. You even started a thread with negative news on WN, remember? I could stay very busy if I wanted to do the same over on the UAL board, there is tons of news out there. To me you do a lot of flame baiting."
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Specifics? If I compare seat width or pitch at SWA vs UAL is that "flaming"? I've never Flamed SWA, until "nuked" by a koolaid drinker. Nor have I ever expressed "glee" ("BK, HaHa") about your shortcomings. But if you find "glee" in taunting your fellow AMTs on the UAL board over BK, come on over and join the rest of the crowd.

 

[Rhino]

For a fleeting momemt I saw a ray of hope.

Now what happens when I have both Jetdoc and Busdrvr on my JS?

Shortest guy sits behind me and don't make me pull over and spank you.

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 8/30/2002 8:42:10 PM

For a fleeting momemt I saw a ray of hope.

Now what happens when I have both Jetdoc and Busdrvr on my JS?

Shortest guy sits behind me and don't make pull over and spank you.
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That'd be me, and trust me, I'd prob be buying the beer after the flight.[] I'm not mad at Witchdoc [], or anybody else. I kind of enjoy a descent exchange. It's just a shame that it seldom is able to include a little good natured back and forth without the escalation. again I apologize for my roll in escalation, and I've been making a real effort to play nice in my last few posts. Now to the big question, WITH did you guys approve a contract that even your MEC recommended against!

 

[Busdrvr]

Educate me, some of the raises are based on "profits". What measure of profits are they going to use? profit margins? EBITA? How'd you vote and why? Not asking what the new rates are (non of KC's business [] ), but how do they compare to current UAL, DAL, AMR (I'm sure you know exactly what our rates are). Heard there were duty and trip rig changes. How about company paid LT disability? I'd pay ole Kit Darby to get the info, but as you can imagine, I'm in a money saving mode[:bigsmile:] .

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 8/30/2002 9:16:31 PM

OK, I give up.
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LOL, no kidding!! We were just about ready for a group hug, and in comes CRJ off the top ropes.[:bigsmile:] CRJ, a little word of advice. NEVER EVER EVER admit to lying in public. It's OK for me (IMHO) to insinuate it, or even to joke about it. But to come out and say, Yep we lie, but it's just a "little" lie. In this business even "little" lies are potentially deadly. When the day comes and you are sitting infront of that smiling interviewer from SWA, AMR, DAL, or yes even UAL, the correct response is NOT "well a little lie for the team is OK" The right answer is NO, NEVER, I WILL NOT COMPROMISE MY INTEGRITY FOR ANYTHING. I don't care what you do in the real world (well i do but...). NEVER EVER think it is OK to confess to being a lier. [] Good luck and stay away from the RJDC.

 

[WNjetdoc]

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On 8/30/2002 829 PM

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On 8/30/2002 741 PM

busdrvr, this whole thread went to the toilet with your comment about WN's business travlers and the class they must be in...what did you say, "whatta burger"?

Again I'm not your pal. What-a-burger is a hugely sucessful franchise in the SW. I'm sure the CEO prob makes more than all of us combined. but the fact is, they don't have a lot of stores in small towns throughout the US. Despite flying more miles than U, SWA serves I think about half the number of cities, and of those cities, there are quite a few that you "can't get to from here". Will SWA ever serve "every city"? Prob not. It's not in the model. as Mike Boyd has been pointing out in the media (and the WSJ had an editorial on this fact), it will never be profitable for SWA to have 5 flights a day from Lansing MI to florida. SWA serves ONLY the cities they think they can serve PROFITABLY with the Guppy. That leaves all the other cities the exclusive domain of the hub and spokes. SWA cherry picks. Do I think it is healthy for small town when SWA entices pax to travel long distances away from the local airport to save a few bucks on vacation? No. It will prob lead to a migration of businesses to only the larger cities. but it's a free market.

"So I will defend WN with all my heart. If you don't like it, too bad. I will for sure not allow you to spew your smart @ss commnets about WN. When I defend WN by returning in kind you go right to bringing up WN's runway incidents and the brilliant retorts about panels and screws...ouch, *s*. I am simply "counter punching" you pal. I will continue to do so. Go back and see how the threads went down hill. It started with you."

Yep started when I mentioned What-a-burger? Then you go nuclear?

"You also have a track record for coming over to the WN board and starting trouble. You even started a thread with negative news on WN, remember? I could stay very busy if I wanted to do the same over on the UAL board, there is tons of news out there. To me you do a lot of flame baiting."
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Specifics "pal"? If I compare seat width or pitch at SWA vs UAL is that "flaming"? I've never Flamed SWA, until "nuked" by a koolaid drinker. Nor have I ever expressed "glee" ("BK, HaHa&quot about your shortcomings. But if you find "glee" in taunting your fellow AMTs on the UAL board over BK, come on over and join the rest of the crowd.

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Yea, I'm sure you meant the burger comment as a compliment. This is how it all started, busdrvr, "Incidently, how long would one need to wait at DEN to catch a flight on SWA? That wait would be REALLY expensive. SWA is a great airline for business travelers...if they own a "what-a-burger" Sounds real nice to me...Your comment about nuclear went over my head there.....So you didn't start the flame by the seat comment and you know it....And finally my comment about all the negative news wasn't about the AMTs there, it was about the company in general. It seems like you don't get it. The other thing I was referring to was how you STARTED a negative thread...remember? Here it is, all you, pal: TOP TEN REGULARLY SCHEDULED FLIGHTS ARRIVING LATE 80% OF THE TIME OR
MORE:
Not a good category for Southwest Airlines in June. The carrier had 7 of the 10 worst flights for the month, including the top 5.

Southwest flight 1367 DTW-MDW was late 96.00% of the time by an average of 59 minutes.
Southwest flight 1791 MDW-MCI was late 94.74% of the time by an average of 64 minutes.
Southwest flight 990 SJC-BUR was late 94.74% of the time by an average of 38 minutes.
Southwest flight 681 MDW-DTW was late 90.00% of the time by an average of 49 minutes.
Southwest flight 1367 MDW-MCI was late 88.89% of the time by an average of 55 minutes.
American Eagle flight 4436 ORF-LGA was late 85.00 of the time by an average of 68 minutes.
American Eagle flight 4460 PWM-LGA was late 84.00 of the time by an average of 47 minutes.
Northwest Airlines flight 994 DTW-PHL was late 83.33% of the time by an average of 54 minutes.
Southwest flight 1428 CLE-BWI was late 83.33% of the time by an average of 54 minutes.
Southwest flight 1428 MDW-CLE was late 83.33% of the time by an average of
40 minutes.
(Looks like the problem is with Chicago's Midway (MDW) airport)."

Good thing American Eagle was there to take 2 slots!! . I see you can do it cheaper...just not on time.............................BTW, I know you're not my pal and I don't mean it as my pal...ha,ha.

 

[Rhino]

OK, I give up.

 

[Rhino]

I suspect SWA pilots went against the recommendation of the union leadership because the ICO was seen as the better choice, given the state of the industry. Nor did it look like things would get better in the near future. A Section 6 in Sep 03 did not appear to be in SWAPA's best interests in terms of negotiating leverage.

Also, many 'activists' were elected to the BOD and exec comm (MEC) as a reaction to SWAPA's previous administration, which was seen as too close to the company and had pushed contracts that favored senior pilots and shortchanged the more junior. With SWA's growth the junior pilots had become the majority.

That didn't mean these activists represented the mainstream view of what our relationship should be viv a vis the company directly and our fellow employee groups indirectly, however.

 

[Rhino]

SWA rates are posted on a US thread, "Question #1 for SWA" or something like that. You may have to go back a few pages.

 

[wannabe CRJ driver]

Okay we have our share of delayed flts (I worked one tonight!) and we have had a couple runway incidents (the most newsworthy #1455 in BUR) BUT ONE THING WE HAVE NOT DONE IS INTENTIONALY SCREW OVER OUR PASSENGERS. U don't get it busdrvr (or guppydrvr) but after your summer of love last year UA completely disgusted passengers thoughout the world.....thats why UA is looking at Chap 11. JetDoc is right you like to flame the airlines that are making it in the post 9/11 world. Can JB/SW/FRNT be blamed because we actually have people in mangement who know what their doing?....I don't think so. As for us "cherry picking" cities.......Southwest will only fly to cities were we know the areas where we are appreciated and can make money. Since such exciting cites as Jackson Hole,Fargo,&Peoria don't want SWA and we can't make money flying into the cities you won't see a LUV Bird there(unless on charter[:bigsmile:] )And on final thing as far as pilots giving me a minute I meant calling back 3:50 when I pushed them at 3:51! Climbing off the soapbox now!

 

[KCFlyer]

Hey folks, have a great, safe labor day weekend. I'll be "flying low" in my 300M out to Hutchinson Kansas to see the Cosmosphere. Take care.

 

[Tango-Bravo]

Getting back to the thought that started this topic...

Not to diminish all the things Southwest does right to ensure its consistent success and profitibility, they have nonetheless had plenty of help from the likes of UA, US and AA along the way.

Kinda reminds me of one of the more quotable quotes I've heard from players in the 1,000+ games I've worked as a softball umpire. When his team came to bat, a player from an upper-echelon team playing a cellar-dweller team admonished his team mates to "just put the ball in play and they'll take care of the rest for us" by which he was referring to the other team's ineptitude in the field. Seems in the U.S. airline industry there's a clear parallel. Southwest, AirTran and jetBlue can put their game plans into play with confidence that they can rely on plenty of the same type of help from the likes of UA, US and AA -- perhaps now even more than ever.