STAR ALLIANCE

DCAflyer

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Aug 27, 2002
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FRANKFURT, Feb 6 (Reuters) - Deutsche Lufthansa AG said on Thursday it would search for a new alliance partner if bankrupt United Airlines dropped out of the market, but the German carrier said it expected its U.S. peer to pull through.
Lufthansa Chief Executive Officer Juergen Weber told a conference in Frankfurt that United, a unit of UAL Corp (nyse: UAL - news - people), would make it through its restructuring process and reiterated the German airline would support its Star Alliance peer, a spokesman confirmed.
When pressed on what would happen if United did not make it, Weber said Lufthansa and the Star Alliance would search for a new partner, the spokesman said.
The Star Alliance is the world''s biggest airline network, with Lufthansa and United among its leading members.
 

kiowa

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Aug 27, 2002
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wow. Maybe U can just buy UAL, AA, and CAL outright. Maybe use the pilots pension fund to do it with???
 
OP
D

DCAflyer

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Aug 27, 2002
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Question for discussion... If and when UAL tanks, can we pull off yet another miracle and increase our domestic flying in relatively short order and assume the STAR alliance US/Mexico/Caribbean contingent? What would it really take in addition to aircraft, crew, gates, and slots, and how quickly could U pull that together?
 

ZMAN777

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Aug 23, 2002
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www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
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On 2/6/2003 3:07:18 PM DCAflyer wrote:

... If and when UAL tanks, can we pull off yet another miracle and increase our domestic flying in relatively short order and assume the STAR alliance US/Mexico/Caribbean contingent? ----------------
[/blockquote]


Oh yeah? And what was miracle number one? Keep dreaming!

Cheers,
Z
 

dfw79

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
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Hopefully if UAL is headed towards the point of no return and liquidation is likely, that they begin transferring assets over to U - including employees. If US Airways takes a proactive approach now and say they add Air Wisconsin and ACA flights to the US Airways Express umbrella - then later they would only have to worry about getting mainline flights ramped up. Interesting scenerio...if it happens, who knows.
 

Bear96

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Aug 20, 2002
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Ummm... fascinating speculation... but (just like Chip when he goes off on one of his orgasmic "the future is so rosey" predictions for U taking over the world)... I think you forgot that your pilots are so angry about the pension issue right now they are ready to burn the place down. That might put a crimp in your predictions.

Not to mention, I believe part of U's business plan for Ch.11 emergence counts on $200M in revenue annually from the UA codeshare. So if UA shuts down totally, I think Dave may be back asking y'all for an additional $200M in annual savings because "revenue targets fell short."

Finally, how is UA going to simply "transfer" (as in donate???) assets to U? I think there is a line of creditors a mile long waiting to get as much of their investment back as possible. Not to mention the aircraft repo-men. If UA goes Ch.7, there won't be many assets left to "transfer."
 

AOG-N-IT

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Aug 19, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/6/2003 6:25:36 PM PineyBob wrote:

When did Chip go orgasmic??? Did I miss something? Is there a DNA stained Dress?
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[/blockquote]

PineyBob,
Chip has always been soiling himself over the remote prospects of either an "Interesting Corporate Transaction "...or the possible downfall of UA .

I notice that the chirp in Chip's words are somewhat less chipper these days. I guess if I was so eager to believe in U management..and then have my head handed to me like the pilots have (I.E. the pension fund) I wouldn't be dancing the jig either.

The interesting p[art of this thread is how people are trying to examine the positive potential of UA's downfall ..in terms of how can U benefit? Yet in the proceeding threads , we have people talking about going on strike (Pilots) Then it being the final act of U period.

You gotta love the internet!! Stark contrast an various views are but a mouse click away.
 
C

chipmunn

Guest
In regard to the pilot pension issue, the ball is in management's court on whether or not this airline will survive.

Provided US does survive, today saw some interesting developments regarding UA and its effect on the marketplace.

At today's UA Omnibus hearing Judge Wedoff granted a Atlantic Coast Airlines' motion to formalize a February 24 hearing on its relationship with United. Apparently, the IAD based regional carrier is concerned about its future with UA and wants its role finalized...one way or another.

Lufthansa Chief Executive Officer Juergen Weber told a conference in Frankfurt today that if "United did not make it...Lufthansa and the Star Alliance would search for a new (U.S.) partner.â€￾

On Tuesday, February 4, US CEO Dave Siegel told the Goldman Sachs Transportation Conference that US is "in process of obtaining final approval to enter the Star Alliance, which is expected this spring." Siegel noted Star alliance code sharing is expected to begin in the late summer or early fall.

As I have said many, many times before, US and UA have held numerous conversation about different corporate transactions between the two companies within the past 12 months. However, 2002 was a very fluid year for each enterprise and for one reason or another a deal was never consummated.

However, when US comes out of bankruptcy and has the freedom to execute a corporate transaction without bankruptcy court or creditors committee input, then things could change, especially if UA does not meet its revenue and cash flow DIP requirements.

Time will tell, but if US obtained some UA assets or the new UA LCC was "spun off" to US, this transaction would replace some of the Arlington-based airlines projected $200 million in domestic code share revenue, provided the pilot pension issue is resolved to ALPA's satisfaction.

Chip
 

usfliboi

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Aug 20, 2002
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Did i miss something? Alpa does not have to be satisfied........ I assure you that t hey wont ..... Sad but true....
 

iflyjetz

Senior
Oct 2, 2002
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OK, all the pieces are now falling into place ... U will be UAL's new LCC!
The unique/interesting/redux corporate transaction will have U transfer all of its high yield routes to UAL, and all of the low yield routes will be flown by U. That is, until UAL replaces its LCC with contracted out 70 seat RJs.

At this point, I'm starting to think the chapter 22 alliance has a good chance of turning into the chapter 14 (7x2) alliance.
 

Bear96

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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Chip the way you selectively pick pieces of the news to make your biased points continues to amaze me, as well as (I am sure) others here.

First of all, none of the "developments" in your last post about UA were all that interesting. Nor were they even new developments. They are all relatively old news-- ACA planning to ask the court for assistance in pressuring UA to clarify the role of ACA in UA's future (as if UA management even has a clue); and LH saying they would search for a new partner in the U.S. if UA doesn't make it (duh, what would you expect?).

But my favortite:

[blockquote]
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On 2/6/2003 9:42:36 PM chipmunn wrote:

However, when US comes out of bankruptcy and has the freedom to execute a corporate transaction without bankruptcy court or creditors committee input, then things could change, especially if UA does not meet its revenue and cash flow DIP requirements.

----------------
[/blockquote]

So, your insinuation (or what you would like your ignorant readers here to believe) is that UA is not meeting its revenue and cash flow requirements, setting the stage for U to unveil its piece de resistance (that is, if you and your colleagues don't shut it down first).

Then how do you explain this, which you apparently "forgot" to post, or somehow "missed" because it doesn't fit into your plan to take over the world:

---------------------------------
Court OKs UAL lease renegotiation

By August Cole, CBS.MarketWatch.com
Last Update: 7:54 PM ET Feb. 6, 2003

So far, bookings remain strong, said CFO Jake Brace. "Our cash situation has been quite good, as well," he said outside the hearing. Wage reductions, which have cut costs by $70 million a month, and the stronger bookings have helped keep the cash situation ahead of terms of United's debtor-in-possession financing.
-------------------------------

Now don't get me wrong, as I have said before, I don't really see how UA will pull through this, and who knows how up-front Brace is being. Even if we somehow manage to stagger through the first couple of months of DIP covenants without breaking any, our long-term picture is bleak.

But it just fascinating to me how you seem to only be able to find tidbits in the media that support your preconceived notion that UA is doomed no matter what while U, on the other hand, will be forever successful, "if only" U can get through "just one more" crisis.

 
Aug 20, 2002
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Valhalla
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[blockquote]
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On 2/6/2003 11:47:56 PM iflyjetz wrote:

At this point, I'm starting to think the chapter 22 alliance has a good chance of turning into the chapter 14 (7x2) alliance.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Now that would be a unique corporate transaction!
 

a320av8r

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Aug 20, 2002
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www.usaviation.com
Dr."Evil" Bronner statements re: US chances of surviving George II's gulf war II:

"Bronner speculated that United has a 50-50 chance of surviving a war. He said that if United were to sell assets, he would consider backing the purchase of some "if it would be beneficial to US Airways." Neidl suggested that United's Washington Dulles hub and some gates at Chicago O'Hare might have value for US Airways."