Station Closure?

[WCT]

From what I heard lately in LAS. They will close the West pilot base, 100 plus will be bidding PHX base or on furlough. They will continue to have a RSV base for fa's, about 25 or so.
The ground staff will be decreased by 600. Part timers date of hire 2004, and Full timers 2007. This includes mgmt postions, staffing, clerical, etc. The total flights will be down to 100 by end of summer, and possible decrease to about 90 flights per day. Most of the cuts will be commuter Mesa flights, and some mainline to East and West, a total of 12 a day. That is only speculation. Does anyone have real numbers?? Sorry to see our great LAS being downgraded into a focus city now.
WN is just Bulking up there operation big time! Increase of 500 plus fa's in the months ahead.

America West used to be the biggest operation in LAS for years, and created the famous RED EYE!!! SO sad, to see most of it go!

 

[coolflyingfool]

It is official that US will go down to 74 flights a day in September. The really, really scary part is that when Kirby was in LAS for the emergency LVCVA/tourist meeting, he stated that there were more flight cuts coming, but they had yet to be loaded in to the system. I am guessing that US is waiting to see if oil breaks in the next month, and if it doesn't, more cuts are coming.

As for WN, with their recent changes in NOV, they are going to be down 2 or 3 flights total. So it will be around 238 on a daily basis. I am also guessing that SW could also pull down some more flights for LAS if oil does not break by years end.

 

[nycbusdriver]

America West used to be the biggest operation in LAS for years, and created the famous RED EYE!!!

Created the RED EYE? Airlines were doing red eye's (and passengers used that terminology) when Doug Parker's parents were in high school.

How totally self-centered and oblivious to airline history can one be to think that an airline that didn't even exist in 1980 could invent almost anything.

 

[WCT]

It is official that US will go down to 74 flights a day in September. The really, really scary part is that when Kirby was in LAS for the emergency LVCVA/tourist meeting, he stated that there were more flight cuts coming, but they had yet to be loaded in to the system. I am guessing that US is waiting to see if oil breaks in the next month, and if it doesn't, more cuts are coming.

As for WN, with their recent changes in NOV, they are going to be down 2 or 3 flights total. So it will be around 238 on a daily basis. I am also guessing that SW could also pull down some more flights for LAS if oil does not break by years end.

Just give Southwest the GOLDEN PLATTER on a handshake in LAS! I wonder how long United will stay strong in DEN with WN yanking on the Turkey??!!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Just give Southwest the GOLDEN PLATTER on a handshake in LAS! I wonder how long United will stay strong in DEN with WN yanking on the Turkey??!!

Well, I wouldn't call it a GOLDEN PLATTER. It's more like a ZINC PLATTER, or maybe a LEAD PLATTER. LAS is low yield crap mainly because it's almost all leisure markets, and only an outfit that has gambled (and won) in the fuel hedging lottery can manage to show a profit in LAS. SWA is basically subsidizing their passengers' airfares using their "lottery winnings." They can have that low-yield dregs (referring of course to the pricing, not the customers.)

 

[hp_fa]

They can have that low-yield dregs (referring of course to the pricing, not the customers.)

In fairness to WN, they are making money on the low-yield dregs and the reason is that their management, at least in the past, has made good decisions. Rather than being in a continual state of war with their employees they have treated them with respect, meaning that when they do have a problem issue between management and employees that goodwill exists and the sides trust one another.

Also, when WN opened up booking thru 1/9/09 they did indeed raise prices on their coast-to-coast fares to something like $600.00 roundtrip. Basically they seem to be finding price points that work for them and the customer and going from there. They don't sell reservations as far out as other airlines (7-8 mos vs. 11 mos.) which lets them sell their inventory at the correct price points rather than an artificially high price point for flights 11 mos out that seek huge premiums in fare for flights that barely have any seats yet sold.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

But even if WN can use it's cost advantage to outlast some legacy carriers in the market place (ie liquidation of capacity), unless fuel comes down, eventually fares, even WNs, will have to come up. The leisure consumer doesn't care why or how prices go up, they'll just stop flying. Do you think that WN will continue its capacity in LAS when passengers no longer fly there because fares are higher?

To keep capacity, even WN's, fuel costs have to come down.

I suppose that liquidation of some legacy and regional capacity will lower fuel consumption and shift the remaining consumption to more efficient uses, but other forces are swamping the energy market and anyway, recession isn't good for maintaining demand for leisure travel anyway.

So, if US entirely leaves the market place in the environment of high fuel prices and recession, how long and how much will WN grow at LAS? Sure, bigger slice of a much smaller and shrinking pie.

 

[hp_fa]

But even if WN can use it's cost advantage to outlast some legacy carriers in the market place (ie liquidation of capacity), unless fuel comes down, eventually fares, even WNs, will have to come up.

I agree. My point is that they are right-pricing now (defined as the complete shorter period in which they sell flights) for the conditions that exist now and are not selling at higher fares further out in the hope that some sucker will buy an 11 month out fare that is being sold at price levels that do not realistically provide fair pricing for a customer that is giving the company 11 months of free use of their funds before delivery of the product.

 

[nycbusdriver]

In fairness to WN, they are making money on the low-yield dregs and the reason is that their management, at least in the past, has made good decisions. Rather than being in a continual state of war with their employees they have treated them with respect, meaning that when they do have a problem issue between management and employees that goodwill exists and the sides trust one another.

Don't get me wrong. I have a lot of respect for WN management and certainly wish other airline executives would learn a lesson from how WN treats its employees. (It really mystifies me how they can miss the fact that the airline that treats its employees best always manages to make a profit, while their own carriers bleed cash at dangerous rates after treating the employees like crap.)

And if WN wants to use its fuel cost advantage to subsidize fares, well that's their business. If I won a $250 million PowerBall jackpot, I could probably put half the bars in Manhattan out of business by offering free cocktails for a month or two. But at some point the winnings would dry up, and my "competition" would arise Phoenix-like from the ashes. WN will find the same situation when its hedges expire. It may be that none of the legacy carriers will survive the ordeal, but WN will definitely face a different playing field in about 5 years. Knowing how they operate, though, they will be ready for it.

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

Just give Southwest the GOLDEN PLATTER on a handshake in LAS! I wonder how long United will stay strong in DEN with WN yanking on the Turkey??!!

SO true! :angry:

They run us out of PIT, now LAS....

They have a strong presence in PHX as well.


But that's what they do man. They come into the popular markets and do a better job than the other airlines!

30 years of profit sharing!!!

 

[Pacemaker]

All this would have happened eventually, the fuel crisis has just accelerated the timetable for US Airways' exit from the west coast (again).

You would have to look hard to find two more unsuitable merger partners than Airways and AWA. Two totally different business models and target markets, and once the whole operation became infected with "cool northern efficiency/highest unit costs in the industry" the wests' fate was sealed. PSA all over again. Before too long LAS & PHX are gonna look the same as Terminal 1 in LAX. And BWI.

 

[nycbusdriver]

All this would have happened eventually, the fuel crisis has just accelerated the timetable for US Airways' exit from the west coast (again).

You would have to look hard to find two more unsuitable merger partners than Airways and AWA. Two totally different business models and target markets, and once the whole operation became infected with "cool northern efficiency/highest unit costs in the industry" the wests' fate was sealed. PSA all over again. Before too long LAS & PHX are gonna look the same as Terminal 1 in LAX. And BWI.

Well, I look on the bright side. Maybe we will go back to our two or three gates in the new LAS terminal. That AWA dump is really horrible.

 

[Travelpro72]

Oh NYC your are so right. When US was in Terminal D they were living large. After merging with that airline out west US got tossed back into that dump. Ya should have KNOWN then of things to come. NO investment in even sprucing up a gate area with a $19.00 dusty ficus tree. GHETTTTTTTTTTOOOOOOOO. Eeeeh at least they have that Budweiser bar to get drunk at though huh?

 

[InternationalShannon]

Oh NYC your are so right. When US was in Terminal D they were living large. After merging with that airline out west US got tossed back into that dump. Ya should have KNOWN then of things to come. NO investment in even sprucing up a gate area with a $19.00 dusty ficus tree. GHETTTTTTTTTTOOOOOOOO. Eeeeh at least they have that Budweiser bar to get drunk at though huh?

It seems like US is just cutting back to the original US routes pre merger. I might be drunk though.

 

[Travelpro72]

Can we say shades of PSA. Keep advertising all those 3 million dollar condos to the kettles.....

Boy for an airline that aaaaaaaaall VEGAS, VEGAS, VEGAS they sure are cuttin', cuttin, cuttin.