Strike vote

[B.O.B.]

You will never get it. We non-union folks don't care to have a union...

You also have the right to own a shotgun...that doesn't mean that it is smart to blow your head off with it (nor is it smart to let Dick Cheney use it in your presence.

I do get it. I have a union and I have a CHOICE! Did you get to vote on your paycuts? Did you get to vote on your work rules? Did you get to vote on anything? The answer is...NO!

The pilots will do what they think is best for THEM and not you or any non-union employee at Delta. I think you should start looking for a new job. If the pilots strike, good-bye Delta. Good-bye to your job!

Since you're non-union the only other airlines you can fly for as a f/a who are non-union and hiring:

1. jetBlue

2. Frontier

If you want to be a unionized f/a then you can apply with the following who are hiring:

1. Southwest

2. SkyWest

3. United

4. US Airways/America West

I don't want to see anyone out of work, but the pilots have to do what is best for them and not you! I wish you the best.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Isn't that ironic, BOB? The pilots are the ones that have the power to shut down Delta Air Lines and put a huge dent in the economy of the US but the nonunionized employees have moved on and accepted their smaller pay cuts and are rebuilding a better, stronger Delta. I can see the new spirit in many of the Delta people I come in contact when I fly.

The reality is that the pilots will cave because they have bills to pay and most of their families won't let them commit financial suicide. NW's pilots just continued the strike of airline union capitulations since 9/11. Not to worry, though. Even if the pilots decide to go kamikaze, the President will step in even if the court doesn't rule a strike illegal. The White House isn't afraid of dragging things in order to prevent damage to the economy.

Oh, and let's not forget how many employees UA and US have laid off in the past five years. To say they are hiring now (at entry level wages) rings pretty hollow to the tens of thousands of employees that were laid off at much higher pay rates.

 

[aislehopper]

I do get it. I have a union and I have a CHOICE! Did you get to vote on your paycuts?

I agree that you do indeed "get it."

A few years ago, APFA members had a choice when they were voting on pay cuts and work rule concessions. APFA members voted "no." Pfunny, there was then a revote. Quite amazingly, the vote turned out to be a "yes" vote the second time around. You did indeed get it.

You have pfalse sense of control.

John Ward is laughing at you.

 

[B.O.B.]

I agree that you do indeed "get it."

A few years ago, APFA members had a choice when they were voting on pay cuts and work rule concessions. APFA members voted "no." Pfunny, there was then a revote. Quite amazingly, the vote turned out to be a "yes" vote the second time around. You did indeed get it.

You have pfalse sense of control.

John Ward is laughing at you.

CS,

A little FYI for you...

We the f/a's have many lawsuits in court against the APFA and AA for that revote. Once we win out, then you will see justice!

You need to get something and I can't say it on this board. Go here to get it: To relieve your stress

 

[WorldTraveler]

Perhaps you should remind your management friend about the arbitration hearing on the company's alleged sick leave abuse case. I can give you a fact. The company took the case to a neutral arbitrator. The arbitrator "spoke". He decided the company's case to be baseless, and the company was instructed to cease its antagonistic practices.

I would hardly call a sickout rate of 1 month per year per employee a baseless case. I cannot believe even DL's nasty management in a heated labor conflict would twist facts re: sicktime that much.

I cannot believe any company can or will sustain sicktime rates at even half of that level. And it cannot be the effort of a few union types - those kinds of levels have to be generated by a large number of employees.

I am genuinely interested in understanding the scope of the sick time issue. Please do PM and enlighten me. And also let me know what DL and other airline pilot sick time ratios have historically been and are now. We'll all be better off for the understanding.

 

[aislehopper]

CS,

A little FYI for you...

We the f/a's have many lawsuits in court against the APFA and AA for that revote. Once we win out, then you will see justice!

So, you need the courts to say that you have a choice?

Without the courts you have no choice?

Let me understand, you have to spend your money to sue your union, the same union that you pay your dues to safeguard your interests, before you get a choice?

This is the choice about which you brag?

Sounds like you have been hitting your own pflavor of Kool-Aide.

 

[Borescope]

If you're going to pay discount airline pilot wages, I imagine you're going to see discount airline pilot work ethics, whether that's right or wrong.

Surely the pilots of United dont fall under this statement, do they??

 

[B.O.B.]

Sounds like you have been hitting your own flavor of Kool-Aide.

I don't work for Delta "The Kool-Aid Drinkers" airline. So, no you have not hit my own flavor of Kool-Aid.

The only Kool-Aid drinkers in the airline industry work at Delta. That is why you work for them.

Go here to get a refreshing glass of Kool-Aid!

 

[WNrforlife]

I wonder why they are calling it a "Strike Vote".

They should be calling it a "Shut down the company Vote"

What a bunch of losers at Delta!! 😛 😛 😛

 

[luv2fly]

I would hardly call a sickout rate of 1 month per year per employee a baseless case. I cannot believe even DL's nasty management in a heated labor conflict would twist facts re: sicktime that much.

Well WT, I provided you with a fact. Do you choose to ignore it? The company has long asserted sick leave abuse and not just with the pilot group. They argued their case and lost, so yes, I would call that baseless. Perhaps you should ask the arbritrator who ruled against them.
As I questioned you earlier, who is your source of information? How did you formulate your stats? Were extended sick leaves taken into account for pilots who must deal with FAA recertification? You do understand that pilots are bound by federal regulations which preclude operating an aircraft under the influence of even the most basic medications, don't you?
Every time that captain signs a release before flight, he or she certifies they are fit to fly and in compliance with those regulations. Do you do that when you sit down at your desk WT? You seem awful eager to believe "DL's nasty management" who you still haven't identified.
You want me to provide numbers? I am not the one who came on this board making accusations that have already been dispelled.

And it cannot be the effort of a few union types - those kinds of levels have to be generated by a large number of employees.

Are you accusing the pilots of a collective illegal work action? Surely you would have some proof to make such a bold accusation.

 

[aislehopper]

I don't work for Delta "The Kool-Aid Drinkers" airline. So, no you have not hit my own pflavor of Kool-Aid.

(snipped out of boredom) . . .

By your eloquent subject change, I guess that I hit the nail on the head. You really did not have any choice in your concessions. Someone (John Ward) decided for you, the rest was play acting.

However, you do have the opportunity to play in your student government which makes you pfeel that you have real power. Inforeps and operational base council members are a great way to be in low level student government, but someone else is still making policy and telling you what to parrot back.

If parroting out "Kool-Aide" anytime you are out argued makes you pfeel superior, go ahead. However, even some of your union brothers and sisters are joining the non union folk in laughing at you.

Polly want a cracker?

 

[Borescope]

I wonder why they are calling it a "Strike Vote".

They should be calling it a "Shut down the company Vote"

What a bunch of losers at Delta!! 😛 😛 😛

This is great WN. And to think you only knew the one sentence. 😛

 

[WorldTraveler]

luv,
the statement was made by DL execs in a public forum.

I would certainly think that DL management is well aware of the FAA requirements; a problem is a significant CHANGE in the total sick time numbers which cannot be defended unless DL pilots are all of a sudden falling apart at the seams. Your own fellow pilot Mike Stark acknowledged that there has been a sick time problem in the last 18 months.

You have not told me the nature of the case that was put up for arbitration. DL can't make a case that individual pilots are colluding to increase sick time which is why I presume that they asserted that ALPA coordinated it - which I could believe could not be substantiated.

The problem is the INCREASE in the amount of sick time among DL pilots. Because DL cannot prove who is instigating it doesn't mean there isn't a problem. And you haven't addressed that.

As I have said, you and the other DL pilots who are calling in sick at excessive rates (relative to your peers at other airlines and historical levels at DL) are only putting the noose around your own necks. I and alot of people can support you if you responsibly deal w/ the situation which you find yourself in. Responding in childish ways does nothing to convince anyone that you are trying to deal responsibly with the situation - and ultimately only justifies a higher "ask" from the company. If you fix the problem, you justify that there is no basis for such high concessions.

 

[ualdriver]

Surely the pilots of United dont fall under this statement, do they??

I think if one rereads the last 2 sentences of what I wrote in post #10 of this thread and the last sentence of post#13 in this thread, I would imagine that UAL pilots (and for that matter, every other employee group) would fall under that statement, right or wrong. I would expect about the same at other airlines going through "difficult times" as well, right or wrong. I think it's kind of hard for management to ask labor to live up to their end of the deal on one hand (i.e. reduce sick leave, stay productive, show up with a big smile on one's face for the customer, etc.), and not hold up their end of the deal on the other (i.e. drastically reduce pensions, cut pay, cut QOL, etc.).

It is highly, highly unlikely that DAL ALPA, in my opinion, is coordinating some sort of "sick out" at DAL. Especially after what happened at AMR. It's probably just a bunch of disillusioned employees who are using a bit more sick time than usual. It sounds like DAL management is just going to have get used to less productive, demotivated employees.

 

[luv2fly]

luv,
the statement was made by DL execs in a public forum.

Please provide a link or copy that can be verified

I would certainly think that DL management is well aware of the FAA requirements; a problem is a significant CHANGE in the total sick time numbers which cannot be defended unless DL pilots are all of a sudden falling apart at the seams. Your own fellow pilot Mike Stark acknowledged that there has been a sick time problem in the last 18 months.

What is that change specifically WT? How much have sick hours gone up in the last 18 months? Provide some backup for your assertions or I and everyone else here are going to continue waving the red BS flag.
As for Mike Stark... you do know he writes a publication that is commonly referred to a a cool-aid chronicle which he also uses to advertise his investment business. Mike also happens to be good friends with Joe Kolshak so I think that pretty much solidifies where he stands on most issues relating to ALPA and the company. Hardly what most would call a true litmus of what is really going on. BTW, how is it that you know Mike? For someone who doesn't work for DL, you sure seem to know a lot of people who work here other than the obvious. Why is it that you can't spill the beans on what your real connection to DL is?