SWA now getting involved with slot (s) possibilities
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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except my mind is highly lucid.
I think you and a whole lot of other people are absolutely livid that I could have said the night before DL's press release that they were challenging the DOJ's decision and then we woke up today to find out that is exactly what they did.
You could only wish you understood the industry as well as I do.
I think you and a whole lot of other people are absolutely livid that I could have said the night before DL's press release that they were challenging the DOJ's decision and then we woke up today to find out that is exactly what they did.
You could only wish you understood the industry as well as I do.
SharoninSAT
Veteran
An article on the probable winners and losers from the AA/US merger...
ABC News - 11/14/2013 -
With the Justice Department's approval of the American Airlines-US Airways settlement to form the world's largest airline, there will be less competition in the industry, but that doesn't mean all fliers will lose with higher fares.
The combined airline, which will use American's name, will have more than 6,700 daily flights to 336 destinations in 56 countries.
Here's a list of the probable winners and losers emerging after the settlement that included a number of concessions from the two airlines after the Justice Department sued in August to halt the merger.
The Losers
1. Consumers, in the long run
With fewer airlines, consumers will likely pay higher ticket prices in the future, says Rick Seaney, CEO of FareCompare.
In the past decade, the airline industry shrank from eight large airlines to four.
"With the latest merger, it drops to three. It is likely we'll be sitting around in 2020 saying I wish we still had eight carriers," Seaney says.
The public probably won't ever know for certain how this merger affects the price of their ticket, says Seaney. But he believes the main driver of airline fares will be the economy and fuel prices, not necessarily competition.
Read More: What an American-US Airways Merger Means for You
2. Loyal customers whose loyalty is virtually assured to one airline after four mega mergers
They will have few choices when it comes to which airline they want to be loyal to, in terms of miles programs, Seaney says.
3. Smaller regional cities
To reach a settlement, US Airways and American Airlines agreed to concessions, including giving up 104 takeoff and landing slots at Reagan National Airport in Washington, D.C. The combined company is also giving up slots at New York's LaGuardia Airport and gates at Boston Logan International Airport. Concessions were made at Miami International, Chicago O'Hare, and Los Angeles International.
"What I find puzzling is US Airways was a low-cost airline in these airports, so swapping for Jetblue or Southwest is like swapping out fraternal twins. US Airways was competing heavily for American customers. I don't think it's a huge win for consumers. I don't think you'll see overall prices that are different from Jetblue and Southwest," Seaney said.
Still, Seaney says the slots the merged airline gave up are under 2 percent of their route network.
"That's the equivalent of the revenue from two big corporate clients," Seaney says. "By the way, now that they're a bigger airline with a broader network, can probably win back two corporate clients they lost in the past."
The Winners
1. American and US Airways employees
"This gives closure to tens of thousands of employees who have been in limbo for almost two years, and some cities," Seaney said. "Now they know where they are going."
2. Slot-divested cities on limited routes
Travelers can look for more competition on certain routes and cheaper introductory pricing, Seaney says. Leisure travelers may benefit briefly from newly competitive routes. Not much will change for business travelers who pay premiums for convenience and last-minute purchases.
3. Other airlines
"Other carriers, including low-cost airlines, can gobble up the now-freed slots and have more to offer customers," Seaney says.
The biggest airlines winners include JetBlue and Southwest and potentially Spirit and Virgin America, because it isn't clear whether other large, legacy airlines will be allowed to bid on the slots from the merged company's concessions.
4. The airline industry overall
"On the positive side of this, finally airlines are going to have some profits and are going to invest in their products," Seaney says.
"Who wants to fly in a 15- or 20-year old aircraft? Everyone wants a new car," he says. "Now they'll have a lot of new cars in their fleets."
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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yes, Sharon, that article has been posted several times before and it doesn't change that the media talking heads are just parroting the same verbiage that Gary Kelly and his minions thought they could pawn off on the American people in engaging in backroom deals to divide the US air travel market between AA/US and WN and other players, just the way WN has operated in N. Texas for decades.
The article is also way old based on DL's actions today.
Problem is that DL decided to be the bad guy who blew the whistle and said that the DOJ's settlement is illegal and amounts to reregulation of the industry. The DOJ has no legal right to designate what carriers can and cannot participate in the bidding process for AA/US assets or make any determination about whether they would be allowed to win.
Further, DL's lawsuit has the potential to reopen the Wright Amendment and all of its revisions which have all been designed to create separate airports for AA and WN but which is completely counter to law in the US.
DL just wants a couple gates to be able to use to fly from DAL and wants to be able to bid against WN and other carriers for gates at DCA.
Too bad that WN's countdown clock for the WA just suffered a nuclear meltdown.
You caught up now?
The article is also way old based on DL's actions today.
Problem is that DL decided to be the bad guy who blew the whistle and said that the DOJ's settlement is illegal and amounts to reregulation of the industry. The DOJ has no legal right to designate what carriers can and cannot participate in the bidding process for AA/US assets or make any determination about whether they would be allowed to win.
Further, DL's lawsuit has the potential to reopen the Wright Amendment and all of its revisions which have all been designed to create separate airports for AA and WN but which is completely counter to law in the US.
DL just wants a couple gates to be able to use to fly from DAL and wants to be able to bid against WN and other carriers for gates at DCA.
Too bad that WN's countdown clock for the WA just suffered a nuclear meltdown.
You caught up now?
Kev3188
Veteran
I have no interest in following the industry the way you do- that's where the major disconnect is between you and others. I'm not the only one who has noticed that you are losing it over the merger- I think it's apparent to everyone. In another thread somewhere E posted a picture of Carrie from homeland, and there are definite similarities in the way you act. I found it amusing that something this inconsequential to you would have you up in arms.WorldTraveler said:
You are losing it now.WorldTraveler said:
When the wright amendment is lifted, SWA will have 16 gates at love field. Period.
This does not change the deal for SWA in any way.
Who cares who flys out of the other gates?
AA, DL, Continental, JetBlue? Who cares?
Our deal has always been for 16 gates.
"Love Fields facilities would be remodeled or replaced, with an all-new 20-gate concourse to replace all existing gates at the 1958-era airport. Southwest would control 16 gates, with Continental Airlines Inc. and American Airlines each controlling two."
If Delta or anyone else wants to try to sue to change the five party agreement, good luck.
I would love to see the argument that SWA should have less than 16 measly gates in Dallas when DFW is so close for others to use.
- Thread Starter
- #24
Get over yourself A$$-wipe. You really have no clue what's about to happen. And yes you are loosing it over this merger in question. Holly $hite you are ate up over this. Be careful who you disrespect, you canbe removed by the majority, hint, hint...WorldTraveler said:
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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None of which makes a hill of beans' worth of difference that all the positivism in the world doesn't change that the settlement agreement and WN's plans to dominate Love Field as well as the slot bidding process are very much unclear and will be challenged as it high as it has to go in order to prove that the backroom dealing between AA and WN that have carved up N. Texas and which they thought could be used to carve up the divested assets is being challenged.
Sharon probably is a nice person.
But she jumped into a discussion repeating the same article that has been posted elsewhere on this site multiple times, apparently unaware of what is going on in a case that is moving very fast.
It also doesn't change that all the threats you can make about removing me from this forum will have no effect on a much bigger case that is playing out.
Sharon and the rest of AA and WN employees have benefitted from the duopoly that has existed and which DL is challenging.
As nice, positive, and innocent as she may be, Sharon posted on a thread that was already well-established to be a contentious discussion started and pushed by a WN mgmt loyalist who has parroted the company line about how WN expects to be able to dominate DAL when it is far from clear that they will be able to do that at all. DL intends to compete against WN from DAL just as it does from dozens of other airports. There are many airports where DL is the only network carrier competing against WN and other carriers.
I'm sorry TO HER if I offended her, but she either didn't bother to read what was written in the post or thought she would hide behind her charm to throw another gallon of gas on the fire.
Either way, the larger case will be decided with no respect to what goes on with this site.
And it also doesn't change that all the testosterone laden men who have been boasting around this site saying that DL wouldn't pick up any of the assets involved in the merger divestiture proceedings including Love Field slots are about ready to be proven very wrong.
If Sharon has to comes to grips with that along with everyone else, this is about as good of a day as any for it to take place.
I have long said that WN will succeed. And that doesn't change.
But WN is not going to succeed by monopolizing the market and keeping competitors out which is exactly what they want to be able to do at Love Field.
WN will have to compete in order to win.
The evidence is overwhelming that DL doesn't roll over to WN as other carriers do.
And DL isn't about ready to start now.
Sharon probably is a nice person.
But she jumped into a discussion repeating the same article that has been posted elsewhere on this site multiple times, apparently unaware of what is going on in a case that is moving very fast.
It also doesn't change that all the threats you can make about removing me from this forum will have no effect on a much bigger case that is playing out.
Sharon and the rest of AA and WN employees have benefitted from the duopoly that has existed and which DL is challenging.
As nice, positive, and innocent as she may be, Sharon posted on a thread that was already well-established to be a contentious discussion started and pushed by a WN mgmt loyalist who has parroted the company line about how WN expects to be able to dominate DAL when it is far from clear that they will be able to do that at all. DL intends to compete against WN from DAL just as it does from dozens of other airports. There are many airports where DL is the only network carrier competing against WN and other carriers.
I'm sorry TO HER if I offended her, but she either didn't bother to read what was written in the post or thought she would hide behind her charm to throw another gallon of gas on the fire.
Either way, the larger case will be decided with no respect to what goes on with this site.
And it also doesn't change that all the testosterone laden men who have been boasting around this site saying that DL wouldn't pick up any of the assets involved in the merger divestiture proceedings including Love Field slots are about ready to be proven very wrong.
If Sharon has to comes to grips with that along with everyone else, this is about as good of a day as any for it to take place.
I have long said that WN will succeed. And that doesn't change.
But WN is not going to succeed by monopolizing the market and keeping competitors out which is exactly what they want to be able to do at Love Field.
WN will have to compete in order to win.
The evidence is overwhelming that DL doesn't roll over to WN as other carriers do.
And DL isn't about ready to start now.
I repeat.WorldTraveler said:
When the wright amendment is lifted, SWA will have 16 gates at love field. Period.
This does not change the deal for SWA in any way.
If SWA has only 16 gates in all of north Texas, how do figure SWA carved up north Texas in their favor?
After all it took to get all 5 parties to agree to change the wright amendment, plus congressional action to enact it, you really think Delta has lawyers that can have that agreement thrown out?
Yeah right, good luck with that.
Kev3188
Veteran
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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wnmech,
you might want to chat with an apparent coworker of yours who started this thread and has gone between "WN wants the gates and would get them if no one else wants them" to "DL is not going to get the gates"
By all accounts, WN wants more access at DAL and talked with the DOJ in conversations that gave it a preferred route to assets from the AA divestiture process - to the exclusion of DL who already serves the airport.
DL will fight for its right to continue to not only serve DAL - and they have already said they will serve some of the top markets from the Metroplex - but also bid on the slots that will become available at DCA where DL has an 11% passenger share.
WN will have competition at DAL in the form of Delta Air Lines.
You can defend the Wright Amendment all you want but it is a unique concept that exists nowhere else in the US and exists to favor the two airlines who have headquarters there. It is a product of compromise and negotiation, not a law that is consistent with the competitive laws of the United States. It is a whole lot more flimsy than you want to admit.
Kev,
I grasp the concept quite well.
The question is why so many people here can't stand having facts pointed out to the on every subject from the definition of pension to airline compensation and benefit policies to market share and network related issues.
The simple reason is that I provide insight and am able to shine a lot of light on subjects about which others just have opinions which are not defensible with any kind of facts.
you might want to chat with an apparent coworker of yours who started this thread and has gone between "WN wants the gates and would get them if no one else wants them" to "DL is not going to get the gates"
By all accounts, WN wants more access at DAL and talked with the DOJ in conversations that gave it a preferred route to assets from the AA divestiture process - to the exclusion of DL who already serves the airport.
DL will fight for its right to continue to not only serve DAL - and they have already said they will serve some of the top markets from the Metroplex - but also bid on the slots that will become available at DCA where DL has an 11% passenger share.
WN will have competition at DAL in the form of Delta Air Lines.
You can defend the Wright Amendment all you want but it is a unique concept that exists nowhere else in the US and exists to favor the two airlines who have headquarters there. It is a product of compromise and negotiation, not a law that is consistent with the competitive laws of the United States. It is a whole lot more flimsy than you want to admit.
Kev,
I grasp the concept quite well.
The question is why so many people here can't stand having facts pointed out to the on every subject from the definition of pension to airline compensation and benefit policies to market share and network related issues.
The simple reason is that I provide insight and am able to shine a lot of light on subjects about which others just have opinions which are not defensible with any kind of facts.
SWA spent a long time and hard work getting the wright amendment changed.WorldTraveler said:
They agreed to be contained with 16 gates.
Sixteen!!!
Show me one time where SWA has said they want more than that at Dal or more than zero at DFW.
By the way, SWA gave up AirTran gates at DFW to get these massive 16 gates in north Texas.
WorldTraveler said:
No it isn't. Their are multiple groups in the Love field agreement and congressional action to seal it. Delta has got no chance to undo that deal by themselves.
If you think they can then you are fooling yourself.
Delta may get a piece or both of the two gates AA has use of. But who cares? There wont be more than 20 gates at DAL and SWA will have 16. The only way SWA would use more than their 16 is if no one else wanted them.
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