Teamsters filed at USAir for representation

[Just Another BK]

No offense there pal, but when has US Air ever been the number one carrier? I truly do not mean to offend, but US Air has never been an inspiration for other carriers. You have never been a gauge by which to set wage standards. Face the facts. When UA was negotiating our most recent agreement we were compared to Air Tran, Alaska, American, Continental, and Southwest Airlines. US Air did not even make the cut for comparisons. What does it say when a union negotiating team would rather not use you as a comparison? To me it says I seriously need to reevaluate my representative.

Look US Air, if you choose to stay with the same union, you are guaranteed more of the same. If it works for you, have a nice day. If not, consider that UA mechanics have made 18.5 % wage increases since becoming Teamsters. How could your life benefit with 18.5% more each month?

Teamsters

USAir Mechanics always followed UAL IAM Contracts prior to them being ousted by its Members. Can you say parity plus 1% being the last one. Obviously I have been through more mergers and Bk's than you people with long term memory loss. USAirways will be collectively with American the No1 Carrier when the Merger Approval is given at the end of August. That's what I said.

 

[Just Another BK]

Thank GOD the IBT is in at UAL setting the wage bar higher and to use your simple math just how many YEARS has it been after 9/11???? OK 12 YEARS AND THE US AIR AND AWA MERGER NOW 7 YEARS....HOW LONG DO YOU KEEP LOSING BEFORE YOU QUIT AND TRY A NEW WAY TO WIN...

VOTE IBT FOR A NEW WAY!!!

HAVE A NICE IBT DAY.

So what's your point. Its taken USAirways that long to make money. The business model was always broken. It had the highest cost structure in the industry. It need to change or die. Luckily it survived for the employees that stayed. UAL and CTL merged before US and AMR. The same goes for DL and NWA. That's why they are being paid more not because of the IBT representation.

 

[TRAVIS]

So what's your point. Its taken USAirways that long to make money. The business model was always broken. It had the highest cost structure in the industry. It need to change or die. Luckily it survived for the employees that stayed. UAL and CTL merged before US and AMR. The same goes for DL and NWA. That's why they are being paid more not because of the IBT representation.

Go read the US Airways Quarterly earnings back to the AWA ACQUISITION OF US AIR and you are right you are lucky to still have survived up to the point of the acquisition by AWA - LCC As that was the first PROFITS East Had Seen In Years.
Contract Talks 101 The Company Will Use The Lowest Wage To Set Up Negotiations For Pay.... WE ARE IT.....

Have A Nice IBT Day

 

[blue collar]

Go read the US Airways Quarterly earnings back to the AWA ACQUISITION OF US AIR and you are right you are lucky to still have survived up to the point of the acquisition by AWA - LCC As that was the first PROFITS East Had Seen In Years.
Contract Talks 101 The Company Will Use The Lowest Wage To Set Up Negotiations For Pay.... WE ARE IT.....

Have A Nice IBT Day

You must be delusional. The Ibt had dismal payrates when they represented awa. You still have the same management from awa. What makes you think that you're going to make industry wages with the teamsters, when you never did at awa, and it was the same management?

 

[Anomaly]

USAir Mechanics always followed UAL IAM Contracts prior to them being ousted by its Members. Can you say parity plus 1% being the last one. Obviously I have been through more mergers and Bk's than you people with long term memory loss. USAirways will be collectively with American the No1 Carrier when the Merger Approval is given at the end of August. That's what I said.

That is NOT what you said. You never mentioned AA. Original posted below...

Concessions were taken in Two Bankruptcies. That's because the USAir business model couldn't exist for much longer twice within a 5 year period after 9/11 as a Medium Sized short haul carrier without reducing its costs. Simple math that you should be able to figure out even with a GED. The fact that this company survived at all is a minor miracle IMO and USAir wasn't ever the lowest paid in the Industry until after 9/11. We always mirrored UAL and one day we will be back to that level playing field as the No 1 Carrier in the World.

But that's OK. I think I am starting to see where you are coming from. All pay is negotiated. Even if you are at the bottom, or the top.

 

[Anomaly]

So what's your point. Its taken USAirways that long to make money. The business model was always broken. It had the highest cost structure in the industry. It need to change or die. Luckily it survived for the employees that stayed. UAL and CTL merged before US and AMR. The same goes for DL and NWA. That's why they are being paid more not because of the IBT representation.

You must be delusional. The Ibt had dismal payrates when they represented awa. You still have the same management from awa. What makes you think that you're going to make industry wages with the teamsters, when you never did at awa, and it was the same management?

UAL equally had dismal pay rates for a major carrier. It takes timing, leverage and political clout to negotiate any wage and benefit increases. One thing I think we can all agree on is the company would be very comfortable paying huge bonuses to those top execs at the expense of the workers. Just because there is a turn around in profits does not mean there will be pay increases. In those few cases when the company actually has a heart, it is rarely what we would like.

At UA, all the union represented agreements expired at the same time. Pilots, Flight Attendants, Ramp and Customer Service, all decided to go into mediated contract discussions. This was pre-merger. Only the Teamsters entered direct unassisted negotiations with the carrier. Many of us including me, questioned the logic behind this plan, especially when the merger with CO began to take shape. The Teamsters persisted explaining it would offer us a better platform to begin the next round for a combined contract. The first bite of the apple they kept saying (I hated that saying and still do) and many of us began to resent the Teamsters actions. What had we got ourselves in to? As it turned out, they were right, and we are better for it.

Only the Teamsters were able to settle the agreements for all their represented groups at UA and CO. The new mechanic contract with UA put us closer to the CO mechanics and has offered us the wage increases we desperately needed. For this "second bite" (I cringe that I am repeating this phrase) the UA and CO mechanics are in a comfortable position and we can now afford to be selective with what we accept. Ask the IAM represented groups at UA how they are doing? None of them have seen a wage increase for years and their pay is about 10 years behind where they should be. The IAM was unable to negotiate any type of substantial increases and the members turned down the TA even though they badly needed the relief. Mechanics are not gloating at our success, but we sure are happy the Teamsters took the strategy that they did. Very simply, at United Airlines, the IAM could not get their members a decent contract and the Teamsters could. Think about that. Same airline, one union could, the other union failed. Kind puts a question mark on your theory??

 

[TRAVIS]

You must be delusional. The Ibt had dismal payrates when they represented awa. You still have the same management from awa. What makes you think that you're going to make industry wages with the teamsters, when you never did at awa, and it was the same management?

Prior to 1995 we at AWA were non-union. We only had one contract with the IBT and was in contract negotiations for our second contract at the time of the Merger with US AIR.
At that time we made more money than the IAM US Air AMT's and more...
Looking at what we had as a non-union airline to what the IBT did to get the pay up and JOBS back that were lost Prior to the IBT being voted in. I would say the IBT WORKED FOR US and did a good job with what they had.
We were the 9th largest airline and not even what you would call a Major airline.
The IBT Has Set The Wage Bar AT Most Airlines As It Did At SWA And Other's.
The IBT Fought For The Return Of Outsourced Work At AWA And got Most Of It Back And The Lost Jobs.
I Think I Got My Money's Worth Out Of Them.
Now As Far As The IAM When Your On The Bottom There Is Only One Way To Go! UP With A Fresh Start..
I posted This before.
You Boys Like to throw Mud and I show you the truth right out of the Associated Press!
The IBT Has Been Fighting Outsourced Work And Works For You!
Tuesday, September 22nd, 1998
The Associated Press
AmWest,
mechanics
tentatively
make deal
• The airline agrees to move its maintenance contracts back to its in-house workers.
PHOENIX – America West Airlines has tentatively agreed to stop outsourcing its maintenance contracts in an effort to settle a 2 1/2-year labor dispute with its mechanics union.
The hiring of outside contractors has been a major obstacle in negotiations between the airline and the Teamsters Union, which represents 400 America West mechanics.
The agreement comes soon after the Federal Aviation Administration fined America West $5 million for maintenance lapses.
The tentative five-year contract includes a promise by America West CEO William Franke to stop outsourcing maintenance on dozens of the airline’s Boeing 737s and return the work to its own mechanics, Teamsters spokesman Patrick Lacefield said.
America West, the nation’s ninth-largest carrier, is withholding comment until mechanics vote on the pact, likely next month, spokeswoman Patty Nowack said.
Maintenance has been an issue at America West since the airline fired 375 mechanics in December 1995 and began contracting heavy aircraft maintenance to outside shops.
Among other things, the contract calls for a 34 percent pay increase over five years, with an average immediate wage increase of 14.4 percent, Lacefield said. The new contract would increase the average mechanic’s hourly wage from $17 to $20.
Union officials will discuss the proposal this weekend with mechanics in Phoenix and at the airline’s hubs in Las Vegas and Columbus, Ohio, Lacefield said.
Contract negotiations continue between America West and its 2,100 flight attendants, who have been without a contract since voting to unionize in 1994.
PHOTO: Associated Press file photo
America West has the most flights out of Tucson – 12 daily – and carries the most passengers in and out of Tucson International Airport – 666,394 last year. All flights from here travel to Phoenix’s Sky Harbor, the airline’s main hub (shown here).

Have A Nice IBT Day

 

[blue collar]

Prior to 1995 we at AWA were non-union. We only had one contract with the IBT and was in contract negotiations for our second contract at the time of the Merger with US AIR.
At that time we made more money than the IAM US Air AMT's and more...
Looking at what we had as a non-union airline to what the IBT did to get the pay up and JOBS back that were lost Prior to the IBT being voted in. I would say the IBT WORKED FOR US and did a good job with what they had.
We were the 9th largest airline and not even what you would call a Major airline.
The IBT Has Set The Wage Bar AT Most Airlines As It Did At SWA And Other's.
The IBT Fought For The Return Of Outsourced Work At AWA And got Most Of It Back And The Lost Jobs.
I Think I Got My Money's Worth Out Of Them.
Now As Far As The IAM When Your On The Bottom There Is Only One Way To Go! UP With A Fresh Start..
I posted This before.
You Boys Like to throw Mud and I show you the truth right out of the Associated Press!
The IBT Has Been Fighting Outsourced Work And Works For You!
Tuesday, September 22nd, 1998
The Associated Press
AmWest,
mechanics
tentatively
make deal
• The airline agrees to move its maintenance contracts back to its in-house workers.
PHOENIX – America West Airlines has tentatively agreed to stop outsourcing its maintenance contracts in an effort to settle a 2 1/2-year labor dispute with its mechanics union.
The hiring of outside contractors has been a major obstacle in negotiations between the airline and the Teamsters Union, which represents 400 America West mechanics.
The agreement comes soon after the Federal Aviation Administration fined America West $5 million for maintenance lapses.
The tentative five-year contract includes a promise by America West CEO William Franke to stop outsourcing maintenance on dozens of the airline’s Boeing 737s and return the work to its own mechanics, Teamsters spokesman Patrick Lacefield said.
America West, the nation’s ninth-largest carrier, is withholding comment until mechanics vote on the pact, likely next month, spokeswoman Patty Nowack said.
Maintenance has been an issue at America West since the airline fired 375 mechanics in December 1995 and began contracting heavy aircraft maintenance to outside shops.
Among other things, the contract calls for a 34 percent pay increase over five years, with an average immediate wage increase of 14.4 percent, Lacefield said. The new contract would increase the average mechanic’s hourly wage from $17 to $20.
Union officials will discuss the proposal this weekend with mechanics in Phoenix and at the airline’s hubs in Las Vegas and Columbus, Ohio, Lacefield said.
Contract negotiations continue between America West and its 2,100 flight attendants, who have been without a contract since voting to unionize in 1994.
PHOTO: Associated Press file photo
America West has the most flights out of Tucson – 12 daily – and carries the most passengers in and out of Tucson International Airport – 666,394 last year. All flights from here travel to Phoenix’s Sky Harbor, the airline’s main hub (shown here).

Have A Nice IBT Day

Yeah, I remember, you were more than 2 years after amendable, with no more talks going on. And yes, the top out might have been more by a few cents. BUT what you fail to mention is that you ALWAYS had a 10 year top out. Us air used to have a 5, and went to a 10 year only in bankruptcy. I'm not here to be like 700 and say the IAM is the best union ever, but you've got blinders on if you think the Ibt will change anything when negotiating against the same management that gave them their last substandard awa contract.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Yeah, I remember, you were more than 2 years after amendable, with no more talks going on. And yes, the top out might have been more by a few cents. BUT what you fail to mention is that you ALWAYS had a 10 year top out. Us air used to have a 5, and went to a 10 year only in bankruptcy. I'm not here to be like 700 and say the IAM is the best union ever, but you've got blinders on if you think the Ibt will change anything when negotiating against the same management that gave them their last substandard awa contract.

Just FYI, in the ibts most recent agreement here at UAL they also increased the time to top out.

 

[Just Another BK]

That is NOT what you said. You never mentioned AA. Original posted below...



But that's OK. I think I am starting to see where you are coming from. All pay is negotiated. Even if you are at the bottom, or the top.

In fact one older guy told me today that USAir at one time wanted to pay USAir Mechanics more than United during one negotiations and the IAM International told them they can't pay the smaller airline more than the big airline. Ain't that the shizzle.

 

[Just Another BK]

UAL equally had dismal pay rates for a major carrier. It takes timing, leverage and political clout to negotiate any wage and benefit increases. One thing I think we can all agree on is the company would be very comfortable paying huge bonuses to those top execs at the expense of the workers. Just because there is a turn around in profits does not mean there will be pay increases. In those few cases when the company actually has a heart, it is rarely what we would like.

At UA, all the union represented agreements expired at the same time. Pilots, Flight Attendants, Ramp and Customer Service, all decided to go into mediated contract discussions. This was pre-merger. Only the Teamsters entered direct unassisted negotiations with the carrier. Many of us including me, questioned the logic behind this plan, especially when the merger with CO began to take shape. The Teamsters persisted explaining it would offer us a better platform to begin the next round for a combined contract. The first bite of the apple they kept saying (I hated that saying and still do) and many of us began to resent the Teamsters actions. What had we got ourselves in to? As it turned out, they were right, and we are better for it.

Only the Teamsters were able to settle the agreements for all their represented groups at UA and CO. The new mechanic contract with UA put us closer to the CO mechanics and has offered us the wage increases we desperately needed. For this "second bite" (I cringe that I am repeating this phrase) the UA and CO mechanics are in a comfortable position and we can now afford to be selective with what we accept. Ask the IAM represented groups at UA how they are doing? None of them have seen a wage increase for years and their pay is about 10 years behind where they should be. The IAM was unable to negotiate any type of substantial increases and the members turned down the TA even though they badly needed the relief. Mechanics are not gloating at our success, but we sure are happy the Teamsters took the strategy that they did. Very simply, at United Airlines, the IAM could not get their members a decent contract and the Teamsters could. Think about that. Same airline, one union could, the other union failed. Kind puts a question mark on your theory??

Timing and Leverage. Two good ingredients for a positive negotiating process. As the merger takes place the company execs want to make it go smoothly and along with increased profits come Leverage. The Timing though has just been buggered because of competing Unions trying to pry their way into a pot of gold dues melee that will only increase with higher wages. Whomever represents the group will be getting a better CBA for its members in spite of themselves IMO. That said what I'm upset about is the timing will be put off longer than it should have taken otherwise. I would like to see the Mechanic and Related all get a new CBA tomorrow. Now I believe we are all looking at a prolonged process that could take up to two years.

 

[Just Another BK]

Go read the US Airways Quarterly earnings back to the AWA ACQUISITION OF US AIR and you are right you are lucky to still have survived up to the point of the acquisition by AWA - LCC As that was the first PROFITS East Had Seen In Years.
Contract Talks 101 The Company Will Use The Lowest Wage To Set Up Negotiations For Pay.... WE ARE IT.....

Have A Nice IBT Day

USAir was always a tweener Airline. It wasn't big enough to keep up with the Bigger Airlines and it wasn't small enough to get away with paying lower wages (Until 9/11 and BK's). One of the biggest problems with this airline was that it was a short haul tweener airline with a high cost structure. IMO the Pilot group was way overpaid for what they were doing. USAirways at one time had 450 A/C on its own but very little International presence. The reduction after 9/11 and Merger with AWA still puts the Company in the tweener catagory. Even Steven Wolfe said we either get bigger or smaller there is no in between to be a viable carrier. Now with the American Airlines merger the USAirways employees will finally be a part of something big with a much more diversified airline with both domestic and international markets. The wages will follow.

 

[TRAVIS]

Yeah, I remember, you were more than 2 years after amendable, with no more talks going on. And yes, the top out might have been more by a few cents. BUT what you fail to mention is that you ALWAYS had a 10 year top out. Us air used to have a 5, and went to a 10 year only in bankruptcy. I'm not here to be like 700 and say the IAM is the best union ever, but you've got blinders on if you think the Ibt will change anything when negotiating against the same management that gave them their last substandard awa contract.

What you call a substandard contract was far from what we had before the IBT. I did not go into all the IBT did for us at AWA but you want to know about the 10 year top out. Most of us were topped out by the end of our first contract with the IBT and to go a little deeper into it, Back in 1991 we went into BK and we were put on a 10% pay cut and a pay freeze this was BEFORE THE IBT WAS VOTED IN!
When AWA came out of BK they returned the 10% but kept the pay freeze in affect for a total of 6 or so years. The IBT got VOTED in and gave us that substandard as you say contract and most got at least a 4 to 5 dollar an hr raise on just base pay some who were hired in 1990 got 7 dollars and by the end of the contract were all topped out and we were going into the next contract.
You don't feed my family but I can tell you 7 dollars an hr was a BIG help.
So while you look down on my substandard contract as you say with your SWA contract pay that the IBT was involved in and got you your BIGGEST pay jumps to get you were you are today. You Need To Try my shoes on and walk a mile.
Like I said The IBT WORKED FOR ME.

HAVE A NICE IBT DAY

 

[TRAVIS]

USAir was always a tweener Airline. It wasn't big enough to keep up with the Bigger Airlines and it wasn't small enough to get away with paying lower wages (Until 9/11 and BK's). One of the biggest problems with this airline was that it was a short haul tweener airline with a high cost structure. IMO the Pilot group was way overpaid for what they were doing. USAirways at one time had 450 A/C on its own but very little International presence. The reduction after 9/11 and Merger with AWA still puts the Company in the tweener catagory. Even Steven Wolfe said we either get bigger or smaller there is no in between to be a viable carrier. Now with the American Airlines merger the USAirways employees will finally be a part of something big with a much more diversified airline with both domestic and international markets. The wages will follow.

You do drugs right???? Because you are way out there! Don't go out drinking the IAM kool-aid with 700 no more it's doing things to you.

 

[700UW]

Compare the pre-chapter 11 CBA for US and the IAM and it blows away anything you had at HP, and the same goes for the first Chapter 11 CBA, and since the TA you all have gotten raises, a pension, scope and a host of things your ibt failed to get.