Temporary Injunction against USAPA filed today

[Move2CLT]

It's never been if, merely when. Most of you are beginning to squirm under LOA93. Your hero lawyer Seham is now a pariah.

Only a matter of time before you turn on yourselves. If you could vote in LOA93 you can vote in the Nic.

 

[crazystnic]

It's never been if, merely when. Most of you are beginning to squirm under LOA93. Your hero lawyer Seham is now a pariah.

Only a matter of time before you turn on yourselves. If you could vote in LOA93 you can vote in the Nic.

not a chance, you really do not have a clue what goes on in our cockpits and the discussions regarding the NIC....

 

[usfliboi]

not a chance, you really do not have a clue what goes on in our cockpits and the discussions regarding the NIC....

''He may have a point...more and more east pilots during briefings are letting us know...they are not on board and do not support the unions most recent tactics... That is happening more than not. I for one am glad some are speaking up!

 

[cactusboy53]

not a chance, you really do not have a clue what goes on in our cockpits and the discussions regarding the NIC....

Yes, we actually do. We have heard it ad nauseum..."the Nic isn't fair". Sorry about that.

When we were negotiating for a new contract (post 9/11), we were trying to hold out (I voted NO 3x). Right after C2000 (voted in in late 2003) was voted in you couldn't find very many that said they voted YES.

That's the beauty of a TA voted on electronically. WHEN it passes, you won't be able to actually know who voted for what. BTW, personally I won't vote FOR any contract that is the "Kirby" (essentially the AWA contract) with improvements on SCOPE, at least a 1-3% raise EVERY year after the contract's ammendable date and AT LEAST the JB wages (NB & E-190) & Delta wages for WB (or better).

I know I'm shooting big, but TOGETHER we can get that. You simply have to realize that the seniority has been decided. Your great white hope in a lawyer is jumping ship (with all of OUR money that you gave him for a DOH slam dunk). Any further delay will just cost you money.

 

[Move2CLT]

not a chance, you really do not have a clue what goes on in our cockpits and the discussions regarding the NIC....

Actually I do. We pilots are a small group. Your dream of DOH is gone and most of you understand that. Most of you are frustrated with Cleary. Most of you regret voting in USAPA. Youve managed to make Bradford an enemy and now you've pushed Seham out the door.

You guys are coming to grips with USAPAs failure.

 

[luvn737s]

Yep, I ran into a mtc issue a couple of days before the strike. DCA to CLE, on arrival CLE a swarm of mechs met the aircraft, came to the cockpit and told us we had a skin crack in the tailcone area then left with the logbook. I made a phone call to moc and was told they would have to fax the repair info to CLE. One hour later the fax came in the fix?...a piece of speed tape about six inches long. It took an hour to apply the tape and then over an hour to sign off the logbook. Total delay over 3 hrs. We just made the curfew in DCA. Draw your own conclusions.


Bob

And here's some video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9deMKE-iek&feature=player_embedded

All in all, I think they did quite a job

 

[usfliboi]

Yes, we actually do. We have heard it ad nauseum..."the Nic isn't fair". Sorry about that.

When we were negotiating for a new contract (post 9/11), we were trying to hold out (I voted NO 3x). Right after C2000 (voted in in late 2003) was voted in you couldn't find very many that said they voted YES.

That's the beauty of a TA voted on electronically. WHEN it passes, you won't be able to actually know who voted for what. BTW, personally I won't vote FOR any contract that is the "Kirby" (essentially the AWA contract) with improvements on SCOPE, at least a 1-3% raise EVERY year after the contract's ammendable date and AT LEAST the JB wages (NB & E-190) & Delta wages for WB (or better).

I know I'm shooting big, but TOGETHER we can get that. You simply have to realize that the seniority has been decided. Your great white hope in a lawyer is jumping ship (with all of OUR money that you gave him for a DOH slam dunk). Any further delay will just cost you money.

Why do you even need a union anymore if senority means nothing to you? I am confused that either side wouldnt want a date of hire contract to protect all of you in case of a larger more senior airline aquiring us? Am I missing something or is there just greed all the way around? Be careful what you wish for...your actions may come back to haunt all of you in the next 5 years...Im just saying 🙂

 

[cactusboy53]

Why do you even need a union anymore if senority means nothing to you? I am confused that either side wouldnt want a date of hire contract to protect all of you in case of a larger more senior airline aquiring us? Am I missing something or is there just greed all the way around? Be careful what you wish for...your actions may come back to haunt all of you in the next 5 years...Im just saying 🙂

Yes, you are missing something. The Nicolau seniority list is a product of an agreed upon process. It is essentially a "relative seniority" list of the pilots that were gainfully employed by the two mainline carriers. It is legal, final & binding.

That list will be the list that is delivered to the desk when we merge with any other carrier. Those two parties will then negotiate/mediate/arbitrate a new combined seniority list. That too will be essentially a relative position list.

No pilot seniority lists have gone by DOH in over two decades.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I am confused that either side wouldnt want a date of hire contract to protect all of you in case of a larger more senior airline aquiring us?

Name an airline that has more senior pilots than the East. Not so much with the West - merging with any legacy carrier by DOH would just push them further down the combined list.

In all likelihood, any future merger will be with a pilot group that isn't represented by USAPA. That means any future pilot seniority integration will use the process spelled out by law - negotiate, mediate, arbitrate. Just like this one did. Of course, the East prays that DOH will prevail - that would improve their lot in life considerably. Merge with AA? East pilots would take their "rightful" places on the 777. With DL or UA? East pilots step right into the 747.

Jim

 

[D Summons a Seagull]

Yes, you are nissing something. The Nicolau seniority list is a product of an agreed upon process. It is essentially a "relative seniority" list of the pilots that were gainfully employed by the two mainline carriers. It is legal, final & binding.

That list willbe the list that is delivered to the desk when we merge with any other carrier. Those two parties will then negotiate/mediate/arbitrate a new combined seniority list. That too will be essentially a relative position list.

No pilot seniority lists have gone by DOH in over two decades.

Actually there were many DOH mergers in the last two decades. The reason you do not here from them is because it was fair and did not cause ill will and pilots moved on. Do your homework.

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

Name an airline that has more senior trained monkees than the East. Not so much with the West - merging with any legacy carrier by DOH would just push them further down the combined list.

In all likelihood, any future merger will be with a trained monkey group that isn't represented by USAPA. That means any future trained monkey seniority integration will use the process spelled out by law - negotiate, mediate, arbitrate. Just like this one did. Of course, the East prays that DOH will prevail - that would improve their lot in life considerably. Merge with AA? East trained monkees would take their "rightful" places on the 777. With DL or UA? East trained monkees step right into the 747.

Jim

what Jim meant to say

 

[BoeingBoy]

You still haven't answered my questions.....

Jim

 

[luvn737s]

Name an airline that has more senior pilots than the East. Not so much with the West - merging with any legacy carrier by DOH would just push them further down the combined list.

Senior, or extreme longevity?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Senior, or extreme longevity?

Longevity when talking about across airlines, although within the East ranks we're talking about two sides of the same coin. No other legacy has 20+ year pilots that are unable to hold a captain spot.

Jim

 

[usfliboi]

Yes, you are missing something. The Nicolau seniority list is a product of an agreed upon process. It is essentially a "relative seniority" list of the pilots that were gainfully employed by the two mainline carriers. It is legal, final & binding.

That list will be the list that is delivered to the desk when we merge with any other carrier. Those two parties will then negotiate/mediate/arbitrate a new combined seniority list. That too will be essentially a relative position list.

No pilot seniority lists have gone by DOH in over two decades.

So why wouldnt you want a DOH if you had 25 or 30 years senority? Do you want someone junior to you getting more pay or bidding? I am still missing something I guess? I thought ALPA made that agreement with the company? If ALPA no longer exsists here and USAPPA does.... and there hasnt been an agreement with the company ....and the company says USAPAA is the "official negotiating" org...what happens then? Sorry I must be blonde lol! So if the courts says the east pilots prevail and its DOH will you agree my that order? Just asking...trying to understand some of the lack of logic from both sides....

FYI I work on the East side and I do NOT agree with what a few of the pilots are and have been doing however I also understand the frustration! I think this is a great airline and want to see it prosper however what is going on now is killing us all.

Thanks