Temporary Injunction against USAPA filed today

[BoeingBoy]

I thought ALPA made that agreement with the company? If ALPA no longer exsists here and USAPPA does.... and there hasnt been an agreement with the company ....and the company says USAPAA is the "official negotiating" org...what happens then?

Well, ALPA made other agreements with the company - two are the contracts (East and West). Did they go away when USAPA replaced ALPA? Of course not. The company, union, and pilots are still bound by those contracts aren't they?

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

So why wouldnt you want a DOH if you had 25 or 30 years senority?

You would if you were interested in the best outcome for yourself - hence the East position. Take someone in the middle of the East list - a junior Captain/senior F/O. A DOH integration would put almost all West pilots below them. Hence they would suddenly be much further up the list than before the lists were merged - can you say mid-level Captain? Instant gain in seniority at the expense of those on the other side, who would have lots of people go ahead of them and few below.

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

So why wouldnt you want a DOH if you had 25 or 30 years senority? Do you want someone junior to you getting more pay or bidding? I am still missing something I guess? I thought ALPA made that agreement with the company? If ALPA no longer exsists here and USAPPA does.... and there hasnt been an agreement with the company ....and the company says USAPAA is the "official negotiating" org...what happens then? Sorry I must be blonde lol! So if the courts says the east pilots prevail and its DOH will you agree my that order? Just asking...trying to understand some of the lack of logic from both sides....

FYI I work on the East side and I do NOT agree with what a few of the pilots are and have been doing however I also understand the frustration! I think this is a great airline and want to see it prosper however what is going on now is killing us all.

Thanks

Should arbitration just be ignored? Should a furloughed pilot that did not bring a job be senior to a west captain?

Should an east pilots that has 15 years DOH but only 5 years LOS get credit for the full 15 making him senior to a west captain? DOH has not been used in the several pilot integrations.

 

[luvn737s]

So why wouldnt you want a DOH if you had 25 or 30 years senority? Do you want someone junior to you getting more pay or bidding? I am still missing something I guess?

You have to look at two airlines, not one. Yes at your unmerged airline, your seniority is tied to your longevity. But a person at AWA with 25-30 yrs was at the very top of the seniority list and someone with 25-30 yrs at US may have only been 2/3rds of the way up the list.

To the 15 yr AWA pilot who is half-way up the list, a 20 yr pilot could very well be junior. even though they had been at US longer.

They are integrating seniority, not longevity.

 

[nic4us]

Actually there were many DOH mergers in the last two decades. The reason you do not here from them is because it was fair and did not cause ill will and pilots moved on. Do your homework.

Name one.....

Better yet...and this is where the real issue lies....Name one major airline merger in the past 40 years, where one side did not claim it got the shaft in the seniority integration. In every merger there is always one side that says it got screwed. Delta/Western...TWA/Ozark...Northwest/Republic....American/TWA....and on and on..we can all pick the side that did not like the deal they got. (I intentionally left out USAir/Piedmont)

The only difference with our seniority integration, is that this time it was the majority that thought it got a bum deal. So, they have used the system to force seperate ops, and delay implementation, but, they are not getting out of the Nic, unless they can retire before it is implemented. Of course, that means LOA93 til retirement, because their only tool in the "it just ain't fair" shed is no new contract.

So, cry me the same river the TWA..Republic..Ozark..Western..etc pilots have been crying the last 40 years, but please shut up about the crappy LOA93 pay and work rules.

 

[Move2CLT]

I was going over the DJ transcripts and noticed that Addington was referred to quite a number of times by both the plaintiff's attorney as well as Judge Silver.

How is it that something that is allegedly dead so alive in this hearing?

 

[Barrister]

Name an airline that has more senior pilots than the East. Not so much with the West - merging with any legacy carrier by DOH would just push them further down the combined list.

In all likelihood, any future merger will be with a pilot group that isn't represented by USAPA. That means any future pilot seniority integration will use the process spelled out by law - negotiate, mediate, arbitrate. Just like this one did. Of course, the East prays that DOH will prevail - that would improve their lot in life considerably. Merge with AA? East pilots would take their "rightful" places on the 777. With DL or UA? East pilots step right into the 747.

Jim

You are quite the old fool aren't you. No one will step into a 747 but there is a real possibility
that a 6 year West FO will step into an East AB ahead of a 20 year fo......at least when hell freezes over
HAVE A NICE DAY!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[nevergiveup]

Name one.....

Better yet...and this is where the real issue lies....Name one major airline merger in the past 40 years, where one side did not claim it got the shaft in the seniority integration. In every merger there is always one side that says it got screwed. Delta/Western...TWA/Ozark...Northwest/Republic....American/TWA....and on and on..we can all pick the side that did not like the deal they got. (I intentionally left out USAir/Piedmont)

The only difference with our seniority integration, is that this time it was the majority that thought it got a bum deal. So, they have used the system to force seperate ops, and delay implementation, but, they are not getting out of the Nic, unless they can retire before it is implemented. Of course, that means LOA93 til retirement, because their only tool in the "it just ain't fair" shed is no new contract.

So, cry me the same river the TWA..Republic..Ozark..Western..etc pilots have been crying the last 40 years, but please shut up about the crappy LOA93 pay and work rules.

No, both sides say they got screwed and that seems to make it a good merger. Here, one side wants it so bad they are foaming at the mouth because they can't get it implemented.

 

[Move2CLT]

You are quite the old fool aren't you. No one will step into a 747 but there is a real possibility
that a 6 year West FO will step into an East AB ahead of a 20 year fo......at least when hell freezes over
HAVE A NICE DAY!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

Nonsense. When the Nic is voted in we'll take our rightful seats in USAirways aircraft (there is no east west aircraft).

HAVE A NICE DAY!!!

 

[BoeingBoy]

You are quite the old fool aren't you. No one will step into a 747 but there is a real possibility
that a 6 year West FO will step into an East AB ahead of a 20 year fo

Now that's a statement a fool would make....a 6 year West FO is already on the AB so why do you want to push him/her out? And chances are that the 20 year East FO is also on the AB (unless holding something else by choice) so nothing changes for him/her. If the seniority integration works the way you say in this merger why not in a hypothetical merger with DL or UA? I'm sure a 30 year East pilot would be more than senior enough to hold the 747 in a DOH merger with either of them.

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

Nonsense. When the Nic is voted in we'll take our rightful seats in USAirways aircraft (there is no east west aircraft).

HAVE A NICE DAY!!!

"voted in"......you're not serious?

 

[Move2CLT]

"voted in"......you're not serious?

F ya I am. You did it with LOA93 you'll do it with the Nic. That's what you guys do. It's inevitable.

 

[crazystnic]

You still haven't answered my questions.....

Jim

OH please not this again.. can yo go back to Alaska... pleeeeeeezzzzzzzzz

 

[traderjake]

It's called fences idiot!!!

How much protection did the USAir Piedmont fences provide when they shrunk CLT and then reversed allowing USAir F/Os to take the jobs held by Piedmont Captains?

 

[BoeingBoy]

OH please not this again..

Hey, talk to your pal AWE-Shucks - like Nosum he demands that his questions be answered but ignores questions directed at him. Shall I go back and count the number of times he's chided me about not answering his questions, or is it ok for an eastie to do that but not me? Never mind, that's a rhetorical question and I know the answer...

Jim