I happened to notice that there is a letter from "Lauri, Tommie and Bob" in flight service website. This letter even has a apfa website on it. I guess it shows that THB is sleeping with the company. It is not a mistake to call AAPFA now. What's next? More paycut? Straight reserve? furlough? This seems like a dictatorship than democracy. All they care about is themselves and they will do whatever they want to do without our consent. It's blatantly obvious!
Thb Wearing 2 Hats
- Thread starter okoge1027
- Start date
Did you read the posting? Do you know anything about it? Answer to both questions is of course NO!
Good grief, the union is working to make the trips better, asking flight attendants to fill out a survey of what they want in terms of trips, days off and layovers. Here is part of the letter creating a Tommie conspiracy (as you say) to sell us out to AA.
This is a great opportunity to make your voice part of a solution. Please take the time to fill out the online bid sheet survey on the APFA website. The survey will be available until July 24, 2005. Go to http://www.apfa.org and click on the survey link located on the homage. More importantly, share this information with your colleagues and encourage them to take part, as well. The more flight attendants who provide feedback, the better our ability to make change that meets your needs and addresses your flying preferences.
So okoge1027, are you getting a different letter on the computer than the rest of us? Can you show us where in the letter or the survey it asks for a show of hands for lower pay, straight reserve or furlough?
You are the kind of person I dread to fly with. Uninformed, reactionary. Who spreads 1/2 truths and total lies in order to get a jump from people. Post anything you want here. Just be truthful.
Good grief, the union is working to make the trips better, asking flight attendants to fill out a survey of what they want in terms of trips, days off and layovers. Here is part of the letter creating a Tommie conspiracy (as you say) to sell us out to AA.
This is a great opportunity to make your voice part of a solution. Please take the time to fill out the online bid sheet survey on the APFA website. The survey will be available until July 24, 2005. Go to http://www.apfa.org and click on the survey link located on the homage. More importantly, share this information with your colleagues and encourage them to take part, as well. The more flight attendants who provide feedback, the better our ability to make change that meets your needs and addresses your flying preferences.
So okoge1027, are you getting a different letter on the computer than the rest of us? Can you show us where in the letter or the survey it asks for a show of hands for lower pay, straight reserve or furlough?
You are the kind of person I dread to fly with. Uninformed, reactionary. Who spreads 1/2 truths and total lies in order to get a jump from people. Post anything you want here. Just be truthful.
MiAAmi said:
Participatory management can be great. It has nothing to do with being in bed but a common desire to find ways to work togethter to produce the best product. Some of our best work rules were negotiated during our participatory mangt. contractual agreements.
As for "straight reserve", if there is any chance that the currently furloughed will be recalled, I think you'll see a serious "push" for straight reserve. Kind of the last but ultimate "gottcha"..lol
NewHampshire Black Bears
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Thinking back , THB IS the most "genuine" union leader, between APA, TWU and APFA, IN THE LAST 20 YEARS !!
NH/BB's
NH/BB's
Obviously, you're THB supporter. You must be a non-speaker with a seniority of 20-25 years, right? Remember, us speakers don't count in AAPFA. That's ok, I don't want to fly with you either. She is in cahoots with the company. Open your eyes! All she cares about is the few seniors and she's just looking out for her pension. You don't know me, so cease from attacking me personally. She's trying to make things better for the senior f/a's. Just ask any speakers!FA Mikey said:
Obviously, you're an uneducated person who are in support of THB. It takes one to know an idiot. She does wear two hats now, that's why it's called AAPFA. Her only focus is on senior flight attendants. She even said in her letter to me. So, before you start calling people names, you may want to find out what's going on first, so you won't make a fool out of yourself. Have a great day!MiAAmi said:
If you think I'm just trying to get a rise out of you guys, wait and see what happens. Oh and as for paycut, straight reserve and furlough are concerned, all I said was that those things might be on her next agenda when it's time for us to give up more pay. I never said that they were on the letter. I just thought that it was strange that THB and APFA website was on Flight service website, that's all. I thought that AA and APFA are separate. Isn't that the reason why we don't turn each other in to the company and call professional standards(totally worthless)? Or am I wrong on that? Anyway, it does not matter. It's useless to talk to you since you're THB supporter. You won't understand it in that case. Have a great day!FA Mikey said:
I dont know THB but calling your union the AAPFA does not seem that far off. From what I've read here she got in power after ousting those who put the concessions in place so she doesnt appear to be all that bad, we in the TWU do not have that option.
I understand the reason why the FAs went and formed the APFA when they left the TWU years ago but their reluctance to join together with other FAs and to remain an "American Airlines only" union has not been good for FAs in general. Thirty years ago when they left the TWU one of the things FAs wanted was FAA certification. It still has not happened.
Several years back several mechanics met with one of those who led the FAs drive to decertify the TWU and form the APFA. From what Ive been told her biggest regret was that they did not try harder to get into the AFL-CIO. They could not go into the AFA because they decertified an AFL-CIO affiliate.
That stupid rule was what set in place the conditions that made the APFA culture so tied to AA. A culture that makes APFA members so company orientated instead of Professionally orientated.
The APFAs total reliance on one airline and decision to remain that way is a poor strategy. For years we have seen that the trend is for workers to have several job changes over their lifetimes and an increase in the ease through which corporation can move assetts around. The flight attendants, who already have the advantage of being in a clearly defined class and craft have failed to capitalize on the opportunities they have, and have suffered as a result.
At present many in the APFA see their independance as a good thing, it kept the TWA FAs from coming in with their seniority, but, at what price? There is plenty of division amongst the FAs as a result but who benifits from that? The company. As you guys are busy battling each other the wage and all the perks that you think you are fighting for are dissapearing. Now you see people quitting. Its kind of like watching two kids fight over a toy, then two minutes later nodody is playing with it.
What plauges the FAs is not unique. Severe myopia is the biggest problem facing the airline labor movement. Failure to form industrywide unions with portable seniority and realize that we should not tie our futures to any particular logo whose existance is so precariously dependant upon the whims of cold hearted money changers is what has led to the disaster that has befallen us, not a sagging economy, 9-11 or overcapacity. We must remember that the old days of the airline builders are gone. Todays airline leaders are here for the quick buck, make their millions then go back to selling greeting cards or working for Walmart. They dont care if the airline exists in five or ten years and they are not stupid enough to form emotional attachments to corporate logos.
So calling the APFA the AAPFA is not far off. While they have started to look a little further out, realizing that they and AA are not in their own little exclusive world, they remain an organization that fails to realize that unless they get together with all the other FAs in the industry the best that they can hope to achieve is being on top of a sinking ship.
I understand the reason why the FAs went and formed the APFA when they left the TWU years ago but their reluctance to join together with other FAs and to remain an "American Airlines only" union has not been good for FAs in general. Thirty years ago when they left the TWU one of the things FAs wanted was FAA certification. It still has not happened.
Several years back several mechanics met with one of those who led the FAs drive to decertify the TWU and form the APFA. From what Ive been told her biggest regret was that they did not try harder to get into the AFL-CIO. They could not go into the AFA because they decertified an AFL-CIO affiliate.
That stupid rule was what set in place the conditions that made the APFA culture so tied to AA. A culture that makes APFA members so company orientated instead of Professionally orientated.
The APFAs total reliance on one airline and decision to remain that way is a poor strategy. For years we have seen that the trend is for workers to have several job changes over their lifetimes and an increase in the ease through which corporation can move assetts around. The flight attendants, who already have the advantage of being in a clearly defined class and craft have failed to capitalize on the opportunities they have, and have suffered as a result.
At present many in the APFA see their independance as a good thing, it kept the TWA FAs from coming in with their seniority, but, at what price? There is plenty of division amongst the FAs as a result but who benifits from that? The company. As you guys are busy battling each other the wage and all the perks that you think you are fighting for are dissapearing. Now you see people quitting. Its kind of like watching two kids fight over a toy, then two minutes later nodody is playing with it.
What plauges the FAs is not unique. Severe myopia is the biggest problem facing the airline labor movement. Failure to form industrywide unions with portable seniority and realize that we should not tie our futures to any particular logo whose existance is so precariously dependant upon the whims of cold hearted money changers is what has led to the disaster that has befallen us, not a sagging economy, 9-11 or overcapacity. We must remember that the old days of the airline builders are gone. Todays airline leaders are here for the quick buck, make their millions then go back to selling greeting cards or working for Walmart. They dont care if the airline exists in five or ten years and they are not stupid enough to form emotional attachments to corporate logos.
So calling the APFA the AAPFA is not far off. While they have started to look a little further out, realizing that they and AA are not in their own little exclusive world, they remain an organization that fails to realize that unless they get together with all the other FAs in the industry the best that they can hope to achieve is being on top of a sinking ship.
Bob, calling APFA, something like AAPFA is a joke and is as far from reality as you can get. Under the last administration. The one who refused to count all the votes and declare the rightful winner in the election. Negotiated behind closed doors and work hand in hand with DC at the time to ensure a yes vote on the concessions, at all costs.
This administration has been nothing but straight forward and open. Mailings to the members, complete up to date web site, and weekly hot line. The union magazine is also back and in details all the president has accomplished and what is on the agenda for the future.
APFA success is from representing only AA flight attendants. We are focused in that negotiations are to the issues of the AA flight attendants. Not those of UAL or anyone else. I don't see where that has helped or gained the mechanics position over the last 70 years, in either the TWU or AMFA. The ALSSA was union representing all the FA's for a time. That or even the AFA has not shown to be a benefit to the average FA. Independents like APFA and PFAA, are being detail oriented to your own members and issues. We are focused on the issues that concern us here and not spending time and valuable resources dealing with what's going on at other smaller carriers, like AFA-CWA is.
Its a unique work environment, and different from carrier to carrier. As you saw recently NWA voted out of the teamsters and went independent. UAL is getting closer to doing the same.
All flight attendants are FAA certified now. It was a long road to get there and there is much still to do in regard to expanding the certification.
This administration has been nothing but straight forward and open. Mailings to the members, complete up to date web site, and weekly hot line. The union magazine is also back and in details all the president has accomplished and what is on the agenda for the future.
APFA success is from representing only AA flight attendants. We are focused in that negotiations are to the issues of the AA flight attendants. Not those of UAL or anyone else. I don't see where that has helped or gained the mechanics position over the last 70 years, in either the TWU or AMFA. The ALSSA was union representing all the FA's for a time. That or even the AFA has not shown to be a benefit to the average FA. Independents like APFA and PFAA, are being detail oriented to your own members and issues. We are focused on the issues that concern us here and not spending time and valuable resources dealing with what's going on at other smaller carriers, like AFA-CWA is.
Its a unique work environment, and different from carrier to carrier. As you saw recently NWA voted out of the teamsters and went independent. UAL is getting closer to doing the same.
All flight attendants are FAA certified now. It was a long road to get there and there is much still to do in regard to expanding the certification.
You post no real info. Innuendo, and outright lies. You want to be taken seriously? Stop the attacks and give us proof. You make up stuff and want people to believe you. Stop making up stuff. I might win the lotto tomorrow is an as real as accurate as your, It might bring straight reserve and furloghs and paycuts.okoge1027 said:
You have nothing but hot air and looking for a few uninformed fools to listen. As you see, so far everyone sees's through you drama.
You want the average FA to care about speakers issues. Then stop making pursers force you to do PA's. Stop making us call and remind you. Stop making it a OMG I have to announcements on both legs. Guess what I do it on every leg. It hasn't hurt or killed me. Had a flight this month with a language problem. Had a speaker who refused to help out because it wasn't a speaker leg. Left a customer and a fellow employee stuck to figure it out on there own.
Tommie is a President who has been open, honest and working to the betterment of all the flight attendants. Hot line, skywork, inforeps, mailings, we have been more informed than ever before.
okoge1027 said:
That is true you just implied it and likely do the same on the line when you over dramatize this as well
They are seprate, but they must work together. Do you suggest APFA and AA never speak? If there is no working together, how do we making things better for ourselves?okoge1027 said:
okoge1027 said:
No there are times and for minor infractions we use professional standards through APFA, APA and through the TWU. There are also times that something cannot and should not go through professional standards and should be directed to the company and/or the FAA. But as you say its totally worthless, I guess you dont bother that route and go straight to the office.
Yes because I voted for Tommie I cannot do anything but support her? Wrong, I support her and all she has dont to this point. I see no reason not to. She has done nothing but good things for us. Its your hate that makes you unable to see the good things and benefits of what the last year has brought.
Your "Anyway it does not matter. It's useless to talk to you since you're a THB supporter." Is the reason you are in the position you are. You cannot make a case on reality or fact. Its all made up drama of what might happen. You stir the pot of doom and gloom looking for others to join in to your dreaded future.
Problem for you is many of us do understand and see you for what you are a whined-up-artist
Anyway, it does not matter. It's useless to talk to you since you're THB supporter. You won't understand it in that case. Have a great day!
