Arpey And Apfa Talking Cooperation
- Thread starter Skymess
- Start date
AA management is the one who encourages the employees to use their sick time or lose it.I am already maxed out so I'm suppose to give back my unused days every year? Are you nuts? I get penalized for using sicktime by getting paid 2 - 1/2 days pay for the first 2 days of used sick leave.I'd be nuts to only take off 1 or 2 days of sick time once the penalty clock starts.It is best to take off at least 5 days instead of 1 or 2.The AA/TWU agreement has brought on this type of reaction to the current sick leave policy. I use to only take off 1 or 2 sickdays instead of 5 when I received full pay for the days.
Garfield 1966,you have been drinking too much AA Kool-Aid!
Garfield 1966,you have been drinking too much AA Kool-Aid!
Garfield1966
Veteran
Your argument holds no water. The sick lists were just as high before any of the concessions, when holiday pay was given and when profit sharing checks were nice and fat. The only difference is now a new excuse is being used.
I could care less that some losers call in sick on the holidays, but at least don’t lie about why you do it. They do it because they do not feel like working.
I could care less that some losers call in sick on the holidays, but at least don’t lie about why you do it. They do it because they do not feel like working.
Garfield, your obvious and very vocal disrespect for the f/a work force is interesting. If I were your manager, and read some of your posts, I'd be concerned about your ability to perform your job objectively and professionally. I think we all have said some will call off because they want to be home with their family over the holidays, but that isn't just a f/a issue. It happens in all departments that work holidays. I don't think I have ever seen you post a positive post about the work force you schedule. Remember, it is a partnership and you are not "superior" to the f/as. I have asked before but have never received an answer..please tell me you aren't the former TWA Garfield from scheduling. Are you working on your anger issues? Work must be a really unpleasant chore every day given your attitude. You might want to consult with the EAP.
- Thread Starter
- #80
Most flight attendants feel that the giving by the pilots and management wasn't enough. On paper, with the funny math, it looks as though you gave more. Look at it in relative terms and the ratio of money given back was way too much for my work group. The valuations given to each aspect of my contract were significantly less than what AA had valued them at in 2000. How they got away with it is what is puzzling to me. I still have my suspicions that someone in the APFA received some funding under the table.
As far as I am concerned we really saved the pilots and managements bacon by not allowing our no vote to stand. If they were going to sail that sucker into bankruptcy court the contract valuations for the FA contract would not have stood and it would be doubtful that there would be a million dollar payout going to anyone who wasn't management.
You can argue with that, but that is how I, and most of my work group, see it.
If the company paid holiday pay to FA's there wouldn't be sick calls. They are obviously too stupid to figure that one out so the sick list will remain crazy during Christmas. Too bad, so sad.
If people are retiring and they don't get money or credit for unused sick time than they would be stupid not to burn some of that sick time off before they retire. JMO.
No, they are not too stupid. They tried a give away with a car some years ago, and holiday pay up until the concessions. It made little difference. People are going to call in, and no amount of bribery is going to change that. It is sad to see someone in It is sad to see someone actually call the company stupid for not trying to bribe people to do there job.
I was under the impression that flight crews did not get holiday pay. So I would imaging that the problem there is the same as it always was.
I can say in maintenanace that on Christmas there are a lot more sick calls now than there was when we got holiday pay instead of a holiday penalty.
- Thread Starter
- #83
Bribery?
Talk to other jobs who work Christmas and you will see that most people, obviously not ALL, that work on Christmas or holidays get incentives to do so. If there is no incentive than what is the incentive to not call in sick?
You can live in la la land all you want about knowing what your JOB is. Well when people's morale has a huge hole blown in it, and the planners build schedules that have you working Christmas, Christmas Eve, AND New Years there are certain things that won't be tolerated regardless of knowing what your job is.
IF the company were smart they would look at certain factors and make some changes. They obviously aren't smart.
If you guys thought the sick list was large before than wait until this Christmas. The company, without telling the union, lowered the amount of slots available for December vacation. So, the senior people who have always held December vacation did not get it this year. At least they weren't awarded it.
I am pretty handy with my schedule so I always find a way to dump the holiday trips. Some people don't have the patience to get rid of their stuff or aren't willing to pay the money to drop it to other crewmembers.
I really don't blame people for calling in sick and it is one of the reasons I attempt to not work between the 22nd and the 26th. Once they have you out on a trip and the sick calls start they like to keep you out by reassignments. No thanks.
I totally disagree, and from more than a few van rides and cockpit visits, I would agree on your statement of how the majority your work group "feels".
There isn't any "funny math" involved. The pilots gave larger in total dollars and percentages, and individually than the other groups. Another large subset of pilots took even larger cuts due to the large pay differences associated with CA to FO, WB FO to NB FO. I personally took two displacements from Captain, a 49% paycut, plus my "funny math" of working an additional 75 flight hours/year due to vacation changes (1 additional month/yr).
AA pilots have also lagged most other carriers including LCC's since 2003, even UAL before their last cuts. Additonally, AA pilots have the second worst seniority progression to Captain in the USA, only better than U. That puts more than 1/3 of AA pilots at least 20%-30% behind nearly every other US carrier.
Someone posted a few days ago how it would only be "fair" if the pilots flew 85 hour bidlines like other carriers. Okay, I thought, maybe I would do 85 if the 12-15 year FA's cut their hourly rate back to $35/hour since that is the accurate pay difference that 12-15 year AA pilots have when compared to other airlines. Maybe "fair" is a somewhat subjective personal opinion. How one "feels" about money in your group seems to be tied with "fair" too. AA pilots never negotiated an industry leading contract like the FA's. In fact, aren't your rates still near the top? AA pilots aren't.
Your group negotiated your rates, compared to the industry, you did well. You may not like what you got, but my hats off to you, you are what you negotiate, "fair" or "feel" has nothing to do with it.
You can't view other union's givebacks because that is the deal they were able to cut with the Company. The fault for any perceived disparity lies with the Union. The only group exempt is non contract and they seemed to have received a "sweeter" deal than contract employees. Once again, who do we blame? The union and those voting yes to the agreements.
Holiday pay is not enough to keep people from making the decision to work, not work, be sick, or be "sick". What did work for us is a perfect attendance bonus, paid out evey year in May. The amount was based on the cost savings to the Company so it was a cost neutral benefit. Some years it was $2000 , some $1500 and some less. It was based on a point system with extra points for holiday and traditional high off duty days (like Halloween). Max points also included no late sign ins or missed trips. So simple and it worked.
You are exactly right!
I am only responding to those,(two here recently), and other comments on the line about pilot pay. My response was to only say, "well, ok. You average your pay relative to the industry like the pilots, and that will the starting point for internal family debates about paycuts".
Its your job. If you are too junior or too stupid, then you work. Its what you agreed and signed up for.
Face it , if flight attendants made 1000 dollars and hour. The same people would be pissed and complain and calll in sick. Then say the reason they do not do there job sit on there lazy butt or call in regularly is because of morale, or the management doesnt respect me.
What are the factors? What are the changes? I am sure they would love to hear them. Since they are so easy and obvious, please share with us.
Wow thats amazing, and no one noticed it when vaction bids came out last April? Love to know what the numbers are, and the exact percentage is. Can you tell us that?
It was noticed and I believe a President's grievance was filed for lack of required "notice". You might want to call the APFA to verify.
I will check it out.Thanks for the info.
As for skymess assertion that more people will call in because they didn't get Christmas off. Even with a reduction in the number or vacation slots. With the number of SR people who have retired, It is extremly likely the same people got the same vacation slots they have always held. At IMA I don't know any one who wanted and used to hold Christmas off, not have it this year.
As for skymess assertion that more people will call in because they didn't get Christmas off. Even with a reduction in the number or vacation slots. With the number of SR people who have retired, It is extremly likely the same people got the same vacation slots they have always held. At IMA I don't know any one who wanted and used to hold Christmas off, not have it this year.
Not the case in Dallas. Many people were caught off guard with what they held. I have always held October, even since my first VC award. This year, the number of slots of reduced by half and I am stuck with February.
Similar threads
