The Canadian Helicopters Shaft
- Thread starter coolhand110
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Why won''t people speak up in this business? Well, it''s the same as always. They don''t want to be without a job, aviation has slowed down, they got payments, Mastercard bills and a bloody mortgage. They also have to make THAT phone call, if they are married. After maybe four or five + times of this b.s., just maybe the wife and kids are getting tired of moving again. These are some of the reasons why this crap continues and personnel keep bending over waiting for the ''injection''. Those that don''t or don''t have to, more power to you. If the Supreme Court of Canada has provided the ''tools'' to be used to stop this and nobody wants to use them, what more can the law do to help us wretches? All has been done that can be done. We therefore deserve no sympathy.
Cap; As you are well aware the helicopter industry (pilots & ame's)in Canada have always been there own worst enemy.
Ask yourself a few simple questions?
Who represents the airlines?
Who represents the airline employees?
Who represents the "Air Taxi" operators emplyees, NOBODY.
Now I wonder who's fault that is!!!!!
So, #### on, it won't change until you do.
407 Driver:
The Cod Father said he would get rid of the Okanagan name, so were is the similarity. The actual screw up's started with Dan Dunn, may he rest in peace, hopefully.
Ask yourself a few simple questions?
Who represents the airlines?
Who represents the airline employees?
Who represents the "Air Taxi" operators emplyees, NOBODY.
Now I wonder who's fault that is!!!!!
So, #### on, it won't change until you do.
407 Driver:
The Cod Father said he would get rid of the Okanagan name, so were is the similarity. The actual screw up's started with Dan Dunn, may he rest in peace, hopefully.
Seems to me that as Pilots we get so demoralized from the day we are issued our license we'll do anything for a job. We'll put up with all the "Mered" and abuse, sign anything just for the slim hope of a job. I seriously doubt that the big red bird are the only ones who take advantage of lowtimers desperation for a job. It's a crying shame how little dignity and respect Pilots have for themselves.. As long as the ongoing and prevailing attitude that we have to suffer, starve, grovel and do just about any crap job out there in order to prove our worth to the operator the things will continue on status quo.
Blackmac is right.. we are our own worst enemy and until we start saying no to the BS and demand a little more respect little will ever change. Just because the last generation of pilots and AME's had to dance through all the hoops and do the jigs to get a job doesn't mean we have to make the next lot go through the same song and dance. Maybe we can learn from those mistakes and change things for the better..
But then again.. as long as the myth of a so called pilot shortage is out there then the lowtimers will be used and abused. perhaps it's time to control the flow of pilots being produced... then the ol' supply and demand factor might work in our favor.
Blackmac is right.. we are our own worst enemy and until we start saying no to the BS and demand a little more respect little will ever change. Just because the last generation of pilots and AME's had to dance through all the hoops and do the jigs to get a job doesn't mean we have to make the next lot go through the same song and dance. Maybe we can learn from those mistakes and change things for the better..
But then again.. as long as the myth of a so called pilot shortage is out there then the lowtimers will be used and abused. perhaps it's time to control the flow of pilots being produced... then the ol' supply and demand factor might work in our favor.
407 Driver
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Sorry BlackMac, it's been a long +32 c day in the rockpile, I missed your point about Mr Dunn, OKie and the similarities......too much density alt and sun I think.
We had a small 20 Ha fire start in YGE this afternoon, the shadows of all the "spec" aircraft arriving cooled the ambient air temp by a several degrees....
We had a small 20 Ha fire start in YGE this afternoon, the shadows of all the "spec" aircraft arriving cooled the ambient air temp by a several degrees....
407 Driver ----- those ''shadows'' are the curse of the BM, ain''t they?
Blackmac ----- all you say is true guy. The ''ol man'' used to say that trying to get bush or helicopter pilots organized was like trying to do the same with the gunfighters of the old west......everyone marches to the sound of their own drummer......and trust few others. I chose to believe that it comes from being out in the middle of nowhere many times and having to survive and handle the situations on your own. As the Marines would say, we learn to "improvise, adapt and overcome". It results in many of us becoming very self-reliant and adapt at getting the job done, getting the aircraft home at night and keeping most of the clients happy. Depending on others to ''pull our irons out of the fire'' has disappointed us all too often. We''re all ''from Missouri'' also.......as in ''show me first and then I''ll believe it". If memory serves me correctly, the HAC started out very slowly also until the ''masses'' were ''converted''.
Blackmac ----- all you say is true guy. The ''ol man'' used to say that trying to get bush or helicopter pilots organized was like trying to do the same with the gunfighters of the old west......everyone marches to the sound of their own drummer......and trust few others. I chose to believe that it comes from being out in the middle of nowhere many times and having to survive and handle the situations on your own. As the Marines would say, we learn to "improvise, adapt and overcome". It results in many of us becoming very self-reliant and adapt at getting the job done, getting the aircraft home at night and keeping most of the clients happy. Depending on others to ''pull our irons out of the fire'' has disappointed us all too often. We''re all ''from Missouri'' also.......as in ''show me first and then I''ll believe it". If memory serves me correctly, the HAC started out very slowly also until the ''masses'' were ''converted''.
412driver:
Nope I''m still here...it''s just that over the past 18 months I have seen naysayers like you do your best to completely defeat any worthwhile discussion on this forum about organizing the helicopter pilot community. Any now this current thread shows why some form of organization is really needed.
However, as long as there are pilots willing to work for less, or indeed, forced to take what comes along to pay the bills, then we really are SOL.
Aren''t you working overseas now? How''s your Cdn tax situation?...
Nope I''m still here...it''s just that over the past 18 months I have seen naysayers like you do your best to completely defeat any worthwhile discussion on this forum about organizing the helicopter pilot community. Any now this current thread shows why some form of organization is really needed.
However, as long as there are pilots willing to work for less, or indeed, forced to take what comes along to pay the bills, then we really are SOL.
Aren''t you working overseas now? How''s your Cdn tax situation?...
taxes??? what are those?????????
you know saturnman, i think you are finally catching on! i will tell you now that your idea will NEVER come to fruition. to prove my point, a while back you ask for guys to sign up to some newsletter or something like that? how many responses did you get? i''m guessing NEXT TO NONE otherwise you would be out here talking about it.
listen, i have nothing against you personally so don''t take it that way. but any idea, talk, whisper, thread, discussion about unions will get a very strong negative reaction from me. if you want union so bad, go get a green card and head south and make a slot for one of the new guys coming up the ranks.
you know saturnman, i think you are finally catching on! i will tell you now that your idea will NEVER come to fruition. to prove my point, a while back you ask for guys to sign up to some newsletter or something like that? how many responses did you get? i''m guessing NEXT TO NONE otherwise you would be out here talking about it.
listen, i have nothing against you personally so don''t take it that way. but any idea, talk, whisper, thread, discussion about unions will get a very strong negative reaction from me. if you want union so bad, go get a green card and head south and make a slot for one of the new guys coming up the ranks.
Needles Split
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Where to begin?
I''ve been inside the walls for seven years and can honestly say it (CHL) has treated me rather well. I spent my first couple of years living out of a hockey bag, 180 nights a year away from the misses, but as time and experience grew I personally found I was treated with more respect.
Yes they are great for training> personally, 212,IFR Aerocourse,IFR, and a four / four rotation.
This crap about treating low timers like dirt etc., lets face it, anyone on this site that can say they have never seen or experienced this type of behavior at other companies is full of crap. We were all once low timers, and I''m sure that everyone out there has at least one story of slavery or being made the joke of the hanger.
Maybe if CHL wasn''t so big, these tales might not crop up so often. Now I will agree that there are some factual stories that have occurred over the years, but that usually stems from a manager who has basically hovered up the ladder (no punn intended) or been in the "rat pack" for years and suddenly is making decisions that he or she has never had to deal with before.
CHL is no different than most companies, except there tends to be too many people making to many decisions that affect day to day ops.
BIGGER IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER
I''ve been inside the walls for seven years and can honestly say it (CHL) has treated me rather well. I spent my first couple of years living out of a hockey bag, 180 nights a year away from the misses, but as time and experience grew I personally found I was treated with more respect.
Yes they are great for training> personally, 212,IFR Aerocourse,IFR, and a four / four rotation.
This crap about treating low timers like dirt etc., lets face it, anyone on this site that can say they have never seen or experienced this type of behavior at other companies is full of crap. We were all once low timers, and I''m sure that everyone out there has at least one story of slavery or being made the joke of the hanger.
Maybe if CHL wasn''t so big, these tales might not crop up so often. Now I will agree that there are some factual stories that have occurred over the years, but that usually stems from a manager who has basically hovered up the ladder (no punn intended) or been in the "rat pack" for years and suddenly is making decisions that he or she has never had to deal with before.
CHL is no different than most companies, except there tends to be too many people making to many decisions that affect day to day ops.
BIGGER IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER
STICKJIGGLER
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Mom always said...
If you have nothing good to say, then say nothing.
Nothingnothongnothingnothingnothingnothingnothingnothingnothingnothing
othingnothingnothingnothingnothingnothingnothing
If you have nothing good to say, then say nothing.
Nothingnothongnothingnothingnothingnothingnothingnothingnothingnothing
othingnothingnothingnothingnothingnothingnothing
I can''t resist no more, been off line for awhile, had a big move! Yes, leave the sinking ship! Most of us have! It''s so much better over here! Yes, there are companies that don''t fly antiques!!!!!!!!!!!!! All of us speak from prior experience here! The management at the "red crow" just keep giving us more and more work over here! Keep up all the good work in Edmonton! I am makimg more money every year not a pay cut and excellent benefits!
PS.. for the Cdn Heli crews who dropped the "doghouse" and the bag of chainsaws.......Here''s a toast to you!!!!!
PS.. for the Cdn Heli crews who dropped the "doghouse" and the bag of chainsaws.......Here''s a toast to you!!!!!
407 Driver
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Jiggler, you really have to open up and tell us how you REALLY feel, don''t be keeping those emotions locked away, it''s unhealthy.
coolhand110
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Needles split
While it is nice to hear 1 person out of 1200 viewers say positive things about CHL, I have to say that there is not another company that would give a person a mini ops course, lay them off and try to get the money for the training. That is pure unadulterated CRAP! Yes low timers are subject to more abuse than they should get, and that is unfortunate. I signed a training bond for $18,000.00 for the company I am now with. I am committed to 18 months. They knock off $1,000.00 a month of the original amount. Fairly reasonable. 15 grand over 3 years with more years added for mountain courses or endorsments is crap. Treat people decent and they would stay. Lay a person off, forget the money for training. It is great that you are happy there. Good for you for sharing your history with them. Must be more somewhere.
While it is nice to hear 1 person out of 1200 viewers say positive things about CHL, I have to say that there is not another company that would give a person a mini ops course, lay them off and try to get the money for the training. That is pure unadulterated CRAP! Yes low timers are subject to more abuse than they should get, and that is unfortunate. I signed a training bond for $18,000.00 for the company I am now with. I am committed to 18 months. They knock off $1,000.00 a month of the original amount. Fairly reasonable. 15 grand over 3 years with more years added for mountain courses or endorsments is crap. Treat people decent and they would stay. Lay a person off, forget the money for training. It is great that you are happy there. Good for you for sharing your history with them. Must be more somewhere.
Albert Ross
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Aviation seems to be the only industry that uses this training bond stupidity - Ryanair in UK even charge $100 per pilot application, which must be renewed every 6 months - no wonder their fares are cheap!
Any other business would treat training as a legitimate business expense, and make you want to stay with them. My stepdaughter has just had upwards of $50,000 insurance training dumped on her, with no question of time serving or any other bonding - she can leave, get pregnant, whatever she wants. The company figures that if she moves on, her replacement will have had equal training, or she might even come back, since it''s a relatively small industry, as ours is.
Madness.
Phil
Any other business would treat training as a legitimate business expense, and make you want to stay with them. My stepdaughter has just had upwards of $50,000 insurance training dumped on her, with no question of time serving or any other bonding - she can leave, get pregnant, whatever she wants. The company figures that if she moves on, her replacement will have had equal training, or she might even come back, since it''s a relatively small industry, as ours is.
Madness.
Phil
