The Charlotte Observer

[WorldTraveler]

Fares aren't the only explanation for the size of US' operation in PIT. PIT economically is very similar to its downriver friend, CVG thanks in large part to the very liberal use of RJs - which incidentally came to the US via CVG. Even with high fares, DL managed to build a hub that is much, much larger than any city on the banks of the Ohio should expect to have. Now that DL has decided to be the airline of all of southern Ohio/N. Kentucky/S Indiana, they will have even more business to come their way. DL also spent a fraction to build a much larger facility than PIT yet CVG is ranked as one of the world's most preferred airports by passengers.

The fact remains that there are too many hubs in the US, particularly in the midwest. I'm not sure that even if US had done everything in PIT that DL did in CVG that the PIT hub could have been maintained. DL is a larger airline with long standing alliances and has the ability to push many more destinations and passengers through CVG. When the industry finally begins consolidating, CVG will probably lose hub status since DL recognizes that CVG is too small for a large hub but they can't currently have a hub in either ORD or DTW, the only two cities that realistically can support a major depeaked hub - the only efficient way to operate a hub.

CLT is probably not big enough to remain a hub in the depeaked efficient manner that hubs must operate in order to be profitable. Based on the criteria that are emerging as necessary for legacy carriers to operate hubs, the only true hubs are likely to be at EWR, JFK (although no one has a true omnidirectional hub there now), PHL, ATL, DTW, MIA, ORD, DFW, SFO, LAX (again, no one operates a true large omnidirectional hub) , SEA, PHX, and DEN. Every airline has hubs that will disappear. That is more than enough capacity to handle the hubbing needs of the US. The rest of the current hubs will likely become focus cities to which LCCs will be more than interested in supplementing the service pattern.

 

[sfb]

Keep up the good work sfb. If you are currently employed by USAirways, have you considered jumping ship?

Fortunately I don't have a dog in this hunt...I just fly on the planes. Living across the river from the "liberal boutiques" I don't end up on the ugly brown planes much. But I have watched the industry for a long time, and it's been pretty obvious since WN started flying to PVD and MHT that US Airways was in trouble, and Metrojet was a half-a$$ed response, like Delta Express.

Even before September 11, it was pretty clear that US's (lack of a) strategy was largely to retreat from LCC competition and charge high fares in its captive markets -- and that this was not a workable strategy for the long term. In 2000, US Airways posted an operating loss of around $50 million -- the same year that Delta showed an operating profit of over $1.7 billion and Southwest's operating profit was $1.0 billion. If you couldn't make a profit in 2000 running an airline, something was seriously wrong.

And the sad thing is, the strategy doesn't look any different now. It's still "our labor costs are too high, and we need more RJ's." Oh, and maybe lower the fares in the markets where there's LCC competition.

 

[gso-crew]

Jet Blue in GSO ..... not Southwest. Jet Blue can crush RDU and CLT from GSO.......

 

[air chief]

Makes no sense for the city of Pittsburgh to turn their back on US with the thousands of employees in the area and the FAR reaching economic pull that US has had their for many years! What happened? Did someone's panties get in a wad? Why weren't all those incentives offered to keep a major presence their for US.....I STILL say that the city of PIT will regret this one down the road! At least from what I heard this was all a political driven move by US starting back in the day when Wolf was in the driver's seat.

[post="239182"][/post]​

Because Dan Oranato and Jim Roddey both beleive U is a goner rather than try to help a major employer of the region. This is being watched throughout the country..how the local politicians handle a major employer. The show Allegheny County put on just reinforces this area's image..very unfriendly to business. I still say they gave WN some major breaks on leases to come in here. U survives..this will bite them in the AA$$ big time. :angry: :angry: :angry:

 

[pitflyer]

Because Dan Oranato and Jim Roddey both beleive U is a goner rather than try to help a major employer of the region. This is being watched throughout the country..how the local politicians handle a major employer. The show Allegheny County put on just reinforces this area's image..very unfriendly to business. I still say they gave WN some major breaks on leases to come in here. U survives..this will bite them in the AA$$ big time. :angry: :angry: :angry:

[post="239843"][/post]​

There's always a big government conspiracy, isn't there? No government funding needed, Southwest does well enough on its own. That can't be said about a lot of airlines (not just US) USAirways made the decision to part ways with PIT, and while that can make business sense, can't blame PIT for moving on.

 

[7.5victim]

try to buy a cheap last minute walkup ticket on WN and you will really see how they make money

[post="239000"][/post]​

Yep, you are so right about that.... I used to have to travel for business CLE-PHL. Weekday travel, no Saturday stayover, hold on to your shorts! US and CO wanted $1200 for a R/T coach seat. WN was $200 full Y CLE-BWI R/T. Even with a rental car and the occassional hotel room, I was still $600-800 ahead. A day trip is a day trip. WN's fares made me more competetive, and they made money too.

WN's one way fares are capped at $299. The price matches the value received. How did the $1200 coach seat on the other airlines compare?

 

[CLT-Douglas]

As mentioned before, one of the biggest hurdles right now in order to accommodate Southwest in CLT is lack of available gate space. Apart from expanding concourse A again, which is unlikely since the airport already has several big projects planned like a new runway, terminal E expansion and parking garages. What other options are there? It will be very difficult to get US to give up a few gates so Southwest can start service. Especially because US Airways is adding more flights into CLT.

So that got me thinking about what's available in concourse A. Right now there is one empty gate where ATA was, and that's it that I know of. It's unlikely Southwest would want just one gate. So the only way to accommodate Southwest with more then one gate that I can think of is to get US Airways to give up gates indirectly. Could the airport move United into B,C, or D since they are alliance partners with US, and move Independence Air to E since all they fly into CLT is regional jets? That would give Southwest three or four gates if that were possible. I don't think that is possible and for one simple reason. If it were, Southwest would have kept ATA in CLT for the time being until the other airlines could make the move. That gate will not be sitting around empty for long. Someone is going to snatch it up.

My guess is CLT won't be seeing Southwest any time soon. Better contenders for that one gate would be Jet Blue or America West in my opinion.

 

[foreright]

Thats not the issue here. The topic was about WN vs US. Listen I admire your commitment to US and your hopes for them, I just think its pointless to think that US will be able to pull out of this let alone become a fierce competitor. The plans for FLL have already been scaled back and even with those flights US on has one or two flights to each destination hardly a threat to AA at Miami. If anything Spirit will be giving US a run for their money at FLL.

[post="238892"][/post]​

You sound more and more concerned with each and every post you put out there. US has already turned the corner. The restructuring that has taken place puts US in a better position than the company has been in for a long long time. You might want to consider stalking another airlines board in hopes of thier failure. Dude, times have changed and are still changing...how is your airline adapting? I can smell fAAilure!

 

[justanadd]

Makes no sense for the city of Pittsburgh to turn their back on US with the thousands of employees in the area and the FAR reaching economic pull that US has had their for many years! What happened? Did someone's panties get in a wad? Why weren't all those incentives offered to keep a major presence their for US.....I STILL say that the city of PIT will regret this one down the road! At least from what I heard this was all a political driven move by US starting back in the day when Wolf was in the driver's seat.

[post="239182"][/post]​

Or maybe not, why put your resources on a losing team that already has proven their word means nothing? And O/D figures will probably increase as people drive to PIT from smaller communities to take WN rather than take US to connect in PHl.