The DOL files suit against the IAMPF and trustees

[JABORD]

No Union votes on a CBA article by article, you vote on the total package.

Good, keep talking because sure, this is a complex issue. Yet, as you've indicated, the 2008 proposal that was passed to the members of US and former HP WAS NOT an individuals choice but WAS a disingenuous, successful attempt to 'back door' their own members into the IAMNPF and all indications are unless this DOL matter slaps them down, we are headed for a repeat.

 

[WeAAsles]

"If I could've, would've, should've"!
"what we have is a standoff"!?
 
What did you contribute other than conjecture and speculation? I remind you the IAM is in charge and encourage you to research the Committee's Chair - Reagon and his 'MO'. These were pointed questions that were looking for info of substance.

The IAM is NOT in charge when it comes to the negotiations in that room if you read the Association agreement for how negotiations are carried out. There are an EQUAL number on both sides who vote to TA articles.

This is not meant to illicit a fight but the TWU is autonomous and does not have to answer to the leadership if for some reason they demand a retirement option.

 

[700UW]

Good, keep talking because sure, this is a complex issue. Yet, as you've indicated, the 2008 proposal that was passed to the members of US and former HP WAS NOT an individuals choice but WAS a disingenuous, successful attempt to 'back door' their own members into the IAMNPF and all indications are unless this DOL matter slaps them down, we are headed for a repeat.

Fleet Service was already in the plan, they were non-union when their pension was frozen in 1992, they got into the IAM pension plan in 1999, and their own ramp people negotiated it and voted on it.
 
The M&R had our pension terminated in 2005, and the IAM and its members negotiated and ratified the 2008 TA that gave them a pension.
 
Every member had the opportunity to vote on it,and could have rejected it.  Both M&R and Fleet at US have voted down Tentative Agreements before.

 

[WeAAsles]

Fleet Service was already in the plan, they were non-union when their pension was frozen in 1992, they got into the IAM pension plan in 1999, and their own ramp people negotiated it and voted on it.
 
The M&R had our pension terminated in 2005, and the IAM and its members negotiated and ratified the 2008 TA that gave them a pension.
 
Every member had the opportunity to vote on it,and could have rejected it.  Both M&R and Fleet at US have voted down Tentative Agreements before.

Question?

When those negotiations were being held did the company offer a "choice" between the IAMPF or a 401k match?

Were there Leaders and representatives of the International who were members of the IAMPF who would benefit from the addition of the US members to make sure there were more finances being contributed to the fund by the airline to continue to prop up it's fortunes?

Are there Leaders right now who receive TWO pension benefits from the IAMPF?
 

 

[JABORD]

The IAM is NOT in charge when it comes to the negotiations in that room if you read the Association agreement for how negotiations are carried out. There are an EQUAL number on both sides who vote to TA articles.

This is not meant to illicit a fight but the TWU is autonomous and does not have to answer to the leadership if for some reason they demand a retirement option.

 
Last one:
 
http://www.usaamerger.com/twu-iam-association-qa/
 
Q3: How much authority will the Associations have over each respective union?
 
The Associations will have no authority over TWU and IAM. Rather, the Associations will govern system-wide negotiations and other system-wide representation issues as outlined in the Association Agreements.
 
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/govern
 



Simple Definition of govern

• 
  : to officially control and lead (a group of people) : to make decisions about laws, taxes, social programs, etc., for (a country, state, etc.)
  
• 
  : to control the way that (something) is done
  
• 
  : to control or guide the actions of (someone or something)
  

 

[700UW]

Question?

When those negotiations were being held did the company offer a "choice" between the IAMPF or a 401k match?

Were there Leaders and representatives of the International who were members of the IAMPF who would benefit from the addition of the US members to make sure there were more finances being contributed to the fund by the airline to continue to prop up it's fortunes?

Are there Leaders right now who receive TWO pension benefits from the IAMPF?
 

Fleet had a DCP when their pension was frozen.  I did not sit in their negotiations so I dont know what they discussed, they had no 401k match if I remember correctly.
 
Mechanic and Related had a 401k match due to an arbitration we won, M&R TA after the HP merger, changed the 401k match and replaced with with the IAMNPF, since M&Rs pension was terminated in 2005, and a DCP with a 3% match was in the final offer after the CBA was abrogated.
 
Both Fleet and M&R had the chance to vote on the CBA with the changes.
 
Fleet got into the plan in 99 and M&R in 2008.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
 
Last one:
 
http://www.usaamerger.com/twu-iam-association-qa/
 
Q3: How much authority will the Associations have over each respective union?
 
The Associations will have no authority over TWU and IAM. Rather, the Associations will govern system-wide negotiations and other system-wide representation issues as outlined in the Association Agreements.
 
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/govern
 

Simple Definition of govern

• 
  : to officially control and lead (a group of people) : to make decisions about laws, taxes, social programs, etc., for (a country, state, etc.)
  
• 
  : to control the way that (something) is done
  
• 
  : to control or guide the actions of (someone or something)
  

 

 

Q17: How will the Association negotiate a joint contract for each of the different classes and crafts at American Airlines and US Airways?


 
 
A: Per the Association constitutions, the Negotiating Committees shall be comprised of an equal number of representatives from the TWU and the IAM for each class & craft.


- See more at: http://www.usaamerger.com/twu-iam-association-qa/#sthash.IvoY4UeD.dpuf


 
Although it's very premature and actually even slightly harmful to even speculate I can pretty much guarantee (Since you're addressing the IAM) if the Leadership tries to "SHOVE" the IAMPF down the throats of TWU members it would cause extreme anarchy. I can almost hear the shouting from the TWU Presidents now.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You are spreading lies again, they didnt spend $700,000 on a party.
 
Why are you posting lies when the exact dollar amounts are in the law suit filed by the DOL?
 
$700,000 was the hiring if the consultant group which the DOL says was improper.
 
And you wonder why you have no credibility, stop posting lies, post the facts and truth.

Listen I was just being nice. So it was $700,000 and $2,000 bottles of wine? Tell me exactly why Martinez shouldn't resign, and tell me that he is a union guy? LMAO.

Look, I don't know how this all is going to shake out but at a minimum, we need to be careful of tossing TWU members in the IAMPF until we can find out what is going on.

regards,

 

[700UW]

No one should pass judgement till all the facts come out.
 
And once again, anyone who was involved should be held liable and appropriate action be taken.

 

[WeAAsles]

Fleet had a DCP when their pension was frozen.  I did not sit in their negotiations so I dont know what they discussed, they had no 401k match if I remember correctly.
 
Mechanic and Related had a 401k match due to an arbitration we won, M&R TA after the HP merger, changed the 401k match and replaced with with the IAMNPF, since M&Rs pension was terminated in 2005, and a DCP with a 3% match was in the final offer after the CBA was abrogated.
 
Both Fleet and M&R had the chance to vote on the CBA with the changes.
 
Fleet got into the plan in 99 and M&R in 2008.

And the IAMPF was of course the only option. I'm quite sure there is someone out there who would know if the company offered a 401k match?

The truth is if that match is on every dollar earned including extra hours I can see how AA might prefer the IAMPF over a match since they would be paying out more money possibly.

But BTW even though this issue is a huge black eye if I am given a choice I still "MAY" chose to participate in the IAMPF? I'm not going to blame the fund for the actions of a few individuals.

 

[WeAAsles]

No one should pass judgement till all the facts come out.
 
And once again, anyone who was involved should be held liable and appropriate action be taken.

What would be your definition of appropriate?

 

[700UW]

And the IAMPF was of course the only option. I'm quite sure there is someone out there who would know if the company offered a 401k match?

The truth is if that match is on every dollar owned including extra hours I can see how AA might prefer the IAMPF over a match since they would be paying out more money possibly.

But BTW even though this issue is a huge black eye if I am given a choice I still "MAY" chose to participate in the IAMPF? I'm not going to blame the fund for the actions of a few individuals.

Ok. are there any options on any article in a CBA you vote on?
 
Do you only get to vote on your pay if you dont like it?

Do you only get to vote on vacation?
 
You are reaching.
 
You know darn well how negotiations work, and how collective bargaining works and the ratification process work..
 
You arent looking at a Chinese restaurant and choosing one from column A and one from column B.
 
If the members dont want it, they had the right to vote it down.

 

[700UW]

What would be your definition of appropriate?

What ever the law and the IAM Constitution permits.
 
But the facts need to be brought out, not just based on a DOL Civil Filing, none of us has seen the evidence.

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok. are there any options on any article in a CBA you vote on?
 
Do you only get to vote on your pay if you dont like it?
Do you only get to vote on vacation?
 
You are reaching.
 
You know darn well how negotiations work, and how collective bargaining works and the ratification process work..
 
You arent looking at a Chinese restaurant and choosing one from column A and one from column B.
 
If the members dont want it, they had the right to vote it down.

Sure they could have voted it down and went back into negotiations.

And what would have been offered in the next TA? The IAMPF.

And the next?
And the next?
And the next?
And the next?

C'mon 700 I read how they kept going after the former Continental people to get rid of their CARP. I also read how they were treated when they said no, TWICE.

Every Sunday the Mormons knock on my door and no matter how many times I say no thank you, they keep coming back.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Anyway you cut it, this is an important question to be answered? Those Trustees did have a fiduciary responsibility to the Plan participants. This could become a question of "How deep does the rabbit hole go" And if I was a member or even a perspective member of the trust I would want those questions answered ASAP? 

After this is all over I believe if they can they should implement a yearly "Independent" audit that can be read by ALL members, IMO.  

The money

That's what I agree with. Nobody has our interest regarding this case. I think it is prudent to have a "Top" attorney involved to make sure we can review if any of these investment decisions, due to $2,000 bottles of wine, affected my investments insomuch that the "Drop Dead" letter that became effective January 1, 2014 was due to these very poor funds. I don't know but we have to find out what is going on. And at the least, until we can find out what is going on, I don't personally believe the TWU members should be tossed into the IAMPF. Now isn't the time.

regards,