The Incredible Shrinking MEM

[WorldTraveler]

There's a fence around every PMDL city in the system...

because DL is respecting the PMNW contracts because the representation issues are unresolved due to appeals by the IAM and AFA... for the pilots and other groups who have resolved their representation and for non-contract employees, there are no fences other than the widebodies for pilots, no stapling, no closing PMNW operations to the benefit of PMDL employees.

 

[Kev3188]

It wasn't me who claimed that there were no fences. You did. There are, and they're in effect.

As for "respecting" the CBA's, that's false too. Unless if by that you mean enforcing them when it benefits the company and willfully ignoring them any other time. If that's the case, then you're correct.

 

[jimntx]

Kev, Kev, Kev. When WT gets like this you should know by now that during these periods DL is like the Virgin Mary...without sin or error. Do not attempt to confuse him with facts. He'll come around once the medication takes effect.

 

[USFlyer]

Thing that kills me is that MEM is doing all this expansion....New parking and more concessions in the airport for what?? To have capacity cut? Someone didn't do their homework

New parking is primarily for O&D, so in theory that should not depend on the size of the MEM hub. Concessions are a different story.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Since this isn't a religious forum, we'll leave the discussion about the divinity of the Virgin Mary to theologians but suffice it to say that the vast majority of the world doesn't agree.
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Since the topic of the thread is about MEM and schedule cuts, the discussion about the labor aspects of the discussion can be taken offline.
Suffice it to say, though, that if DL wanted to pick out only the parts of NW's CBA's that were to its benefit, they would not be giving their expanded flying to IAM and AFA represented employees. Yet, DTW has seen more high value international growth than any other hub - probably all other hubs combined - and those flights to Asia and S. America are being flown by AFA represented FAs. DL could have chosen to create a separate group of employees to work the DCI flights... but instead are they not using the same IAM represented employees?
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The fences remain in effect to fulfill DL's requirement of maintaining laboratory conditions due to the unresolved representation issues.
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Since the real topic of the thread is cutbacks at MEM, it is worth noting that DL, like NW before, continues to maintain its absolute and relative market share at all of its hubs and its relative share as the #2 carrier in DFW despite closing the hub.
nearly all of that capacity that DL pulled out of DFW has been used to add several billion dollars of new NYC local revenue and movement up several positions in relative market position in one the largest aviation market in the world.
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It is also worth noting that airlines across the board are announcing capacity cuts through the winter at least even though DL announced its capacity plans months ago..

Leadership is moving decisively in spite of whether those around you choose to follow. Having others eventually fall in line beyond you demonstrates that leadership.

 

[Kev3188]

...no fenced aircraft or cities, other than the large widebodies for the pilots (doesnot even affect the DL non-union - PMNW represented employees)...

The fences remain in effect to fulfill DL's requirement of maintaining laboratory conditions due to the unresolved representation issues.

So which is it?

 

[FWAAA]

Not easy to keep track of the goalposts as they seem to be on the move. 😀

 

[WorldTraveler]

So which is it?

actually you were the one who chose to argue that there are fences in response to my assertion that there are no fences other than on 777 and 744 equipment for the pilots only and that was a result of ALPA seniority arbitration.

There's a fence around every PMDL city in the system...

Once again, DL offered the same level of pay and benefits to PMDL and PMNW benefits from the very beginning with no fences. It is the 3 year old unresolved efforts of the IAM and AFA in collusion with the NMB which are resulting in lower pay for you and the necessity for DL to not allow FA and ground staff to intermingle.


We're going on two years since the pilots were rewarded with payraises - they are due for another in a couple months - in return for completing merger integration.

 

[Kev3188]

actually you were the one who chose to argue that there are fences in response to my assertion that there are no fences other than on 777 and 744 equipment for the pilots only and that was a result of ALPA seniority arbitration.

Nobody's arguing anything. You said they don't exist. I know for a fact they do.

Once again, DL offered the same level of pay and benefits to PMDL and PMNW benefits from the very beginning with no fences. It is the 3 year old unresolved efforts of the IAM and AFA in collusion with the NMB which are resulting in lower pay for you and the necessity for DL to not allow FA and ground staff to intermingle.

Collusion? You're joking, right? Proof please...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Nobody's arguing anything. You said they don't exist. I know for a fact they do.

I believe we are tripping over semantics. The fact that DL and PMNW people cannot freely move between each other's cities is not in dispute... the question is whether it is a fence which is a company or union negotiated restriction that has resulted from a completed transition agreement or whether it is part of the laboratory conditions which DL is maintaining while the representation issues are resolved....
you can call it fences but I'd like to see where that term is used outside of this conversation by DL or the NMB, AFA, or IAM.
I believe the term "fences" is indeed used to refer to the restrictions around the 777s and 744s.

Collusion? You're joking, right? Proof please...

yes, I'm joking.
But I'm not so sure that the Republican led Congress is joking.
Unless the NMB and AFA and IAM just throw up their hands and say "yeah DL was right all along" (likelihood ranks right up there w/ FWAAA's flying pig predictions), Congress will jump all over the whole thing.
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So a merger that was announced under a Republican administration has had the labor aspects of the merger unresolved through 3 years of a Democratic administration will probably not be fully resolved until there is yet another change in control in Washington.
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Collusion? We'll let the pols to make that charge. An attempt by labor and the current administration to stop one of the largest reductions in unionized workers in US history? That's not so far fetched for anyone to believe.
How it ultimately works out remains to be seen but I think it will be quite clear that there were alot of PMNW people who gave up a lot of money in the process.
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My goal - as with Delta's - is that all people be paid the same, higher wages and that the "us vs you" mindset end very quickly.
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We need only look at other airlines including what is currently happening at WN to see how destructive that is - and how difficult it is to eqiutably merge two different airlines.
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It is only because DL and NW were more alike than UA and CO or WN or FL that the divisions between DL and NW people have remained as "minimal" as they are.
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In reality, it is largely because DL is running a profitable, operationally strong airline that the compensation differences exist.

 

[signals]

yes... it is rather comical to think that anyone could with even half a straight face imply that DL is doing something against PMNW people... again the evidence is abundantly clear than unlike other companies DL did not put any carveouts around PMNW planes or people... and the simple fact is that PMNW people have benefitted from more international growth than their PMDL peers... all those PMDL 777s flying from DTW to Asia could be flown by and worked by PMDL if DL acted like other airlines... but DL has not done that....
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what is most notable is that the OP has now turned his arguments from the fact that DL is downsizing a hub when confronted with the evidence that DL in fact has been able to maintain its local market share in not only MEM and CVG but also in every other major city - unlike other airlines which have closed hubs and given up their local market shares - something no other airline has done as many times as AA has done.
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so instead said OP now tries to incite a campaign of fear and divide which again is based on NO FACTS - instead mistruths.

What is clear is that mistruths and lack of real industry information can easily be shot down - which is why I just love jumping on them.
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Despite the attempts to paint it otherwise, DL has done a better job of building and defending its route network than any other US network airline... DL flies more route miles than any other airline in the world... connects more passengers from more cities and still manages to be the #1 airline in more cities than any other airline.
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and PMNW employees in comparison to its peers have fared incredibly well... there was no stapling, no fenced aircraft or cities, other than the large widebodies for the pilots (doesnot even affect the DL non-union - PMNW represented employees)... and PMNW employees still received profit sharing.... and PMNW employees are now ground handling Delta Conx flights that were contracted out....

and no frontline employee groups have been RIFd on either side.
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as stated originally, the DL-US slot swap has been approved, 50 seat RJs are being reduced while larger mainline and large RJ equipment is being added....
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the original notion that DL route development is suffering from the reduction in a few RJ markets and seasonal reductions at MEM - which PMNW did before is comical.
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the fact that the best retort is to incite a campaign of fear and division between PMNW and PMDL employees based on mistruths is nothing short of pathetic - but not unexpected.

The Word Twister StrIkes aGaiN, y'ALl!
S. 😛