The Presidential Debate

[atabuy]

Atabuy
If you agree with this statement, and it is a statement, then why are you complaing that those paying the most is taxes get the largest dollar break. In the example I gave you, you would have received a $50 tax break while I would only have received $10 yet you seem to be complaining that you would have gotten the better break.

Fred,
I don't think I have complained about this.
What I said was the gov. has to roll the tax breaks back to what they were before.
The trickle down theory never worked because the money trickled into the rich guys portfolio.
The squealing is not coming from me.

One more question for you, it seems as if you are coming from the position that the wealth in this country stems from the government and is not created by individuals.

I am not.
Although years ago when taxes were a lot higher for big earners, the gov. gave loopholes for them to put money in which reduced their taxes and the gov. funded things without ever using tax money. They just directed where the money went.

 

[NWA/AMT]

Since most of your questions seem to be rhetorical, which one was it you wanted me to answer?

[post="189264"][/post]​

That's odd, they seemed pretty simple and specific to me. You made broad statements regarding the governments 'responsability' to it's citizens and, from your statements, I asked you for alternatives on:

Health care

It is not the governments responsability to provide you medical coverage.

[post="189107"][/post]​

If you cannot afford coverage and your employer does not provide it, are we to let you die?

[post="189201"][/post]​

Jobs

It is not the governments responsability to provide you with a job.

[post="189107"][/post]​

If you cannot find a job are we to let you starve?

[post="189201"][/post]​

Education

It is not the governments responsability to ensure that your children get an education above public schooling

[post="189107"][/post]​

Considering that a college degree will soon be necessary for just about any of the jobs left in this country, if you cannot afford one are we to let you starve?

[post="189201"][/post]​

Social Security and Retirement

It is not the responsability of the government to provide for your retirement...

[post="189107"][/post]​

Yet, if government regulations don't prevent your employer from bankrupting your pension plan, are we to let you starve? If your employer doesn't choose to provide one and you cannot afford one, are we to let you starve?

[post="189201"][/post]​

Medicine

...nor to ensure that you can afford medicine.

[post="189107"][/post]​

And if you can't afford it, you can just suffer?

[post="189201"][/post]​

Now, Fred, you also claim that:

First, Clinton lied under oath before a federal grand Jury.

I have asked you before if you felt this was a greater or lesser evil than Reagan lying to Congress, in sworn testimony, about selling missiles to a sworn enemy of the US, a nation identified by the current president as part of the 'Axis of Evil'. Do you think it is, Fred?

The liberals in congress have for so long created soo many programs to provide for soo many people, that they are winning this battle.

Considering that BOTH houses of Congress, along with the Executive and Judicial branches are controlled by the Republicans, and the Republican party is currently under the control of the NeoConservative faction within it, exactly how did the 'liberals' accomplish this feat? Why have the Republicans done nothing to fix it?

Next example. North Dakota. Home of Tom Daschle recently dethroned as majority leader in the senate. That state is in a program that they get $2 back for every $1 they send to the federal government from gas taxes for road improvement.

[post="189149"][/post]​

Yet the ultimate example of such 'pork barrel politics' is Alaska, where Republican Senator Ted Stevens returns $800 per person from the US taxpayers, 26 times the national average of $31. Since you failed to mention Mr. Stevens, a Republican, but thought to mention Mr. Daschle, a Democrat, I have to ask if you feel that Ted Stevens actions are acceptable but Tom Daschle's aren't?

http://www.termlimits.org/Press/Common_Sense/cs1137.html

The top 1% is paying more than ten times the federal income taxes than the bottom 50%!

[post="189128"][/post]​

How many of the bottom 50% fall below the level where they are required to pay any taxes at all?

How do the earnings of the top 1% compare with the earnings of the bottom 50%, Fred?

What are the tax brackets that make up the top 1% and bottom 50%?

How many of the bottom 50% are able to take advantage of the Bush tax cuts for 'Personal Holding Companies' that reduced the rate for such tax loopholes from 39.6 to 15 percent, and how many of the top 1% have?

http://www.smbiz.com/sbrl001.html

Simple questions, Fred, simple, direct, questions.

 

[NWA/AMT]

Just to be fair, Fred, I'll even answer yet another of your questions:

How has this been able to happen. Do you mean to tell me that the government has taken money away from the so called middle class and given it to the weathy. Actually transfered money in that fassion.

[post="189230"][/post]​

By reducing the corporate tax rates and removing penalties for corporations moving their headqarters offshore to avoid taxes.

By allowing the wealthy to reduce their tax rate by creating "Personal Holding Companies" which masquerade as 'small businesses' and allow them to pay a reduced rate on their income.

Both of these actions take money away from the middle class by placing a greater portion of the tax burden upon them. These actions transfer money directly from the middle class to the corporations and the wealthy.

 

[TWAnr]

Next example. North Dakota. Home of Tom Daschle recently dethroned as majority leader in the senate....

[post="189149"][/post]​

When did Senator Daschle move to North Dakota? I must have missed that news item.

Fred, for the authoritative pontificator that you are, I expected you to at least be accurate in the facts that you cite.

 

[Busdrvr]

You talk about personal responsibity - if my bank account was overdrawn by a thousand dollars, much less a trillion dollars, then it's MY responsibility to fix that situation.

All the while, a good number of those companies have "offshored" several jobs, or they have hired a lot of foreign workers with H1B visas to replace American citizens who used to do those jobs...and those workers work for less money, which brings in less taxes.

And Fred, I suppose your a big fan of Bush's "ownership" of health care plan. I mean, give us a tax deferred (oh...even LESS to go towards providning basic defense and infrastructure needs) savings account and having folks buy a catastrohic insurance plan. So...when little Johnny gets a runny nose, you can either draw from the savings account and negotiate a "cash on the barrelhead" price, or they can let him just get over it, like they did in the pioneer days.

But....the Average American household income is around $30,000 per year. If you make more, consider yourself "above average". The average family has 2.3 kids. They have a mortgage or rent. They have car and home insurance. They have utility bills (latest word in my neck of the woods is that home heating costs will average $1,000 per month this winter). They really need to save for their retirement, since company funded pensions are a thing of the past. So....where will they get the money to fund their medical savings account?

This is a great big country. Living in a neighborhood of $300,000 homes and $50,000 cars can make one feel that this is the "average" American lifestyle. It isn't. You can drive through less fortunate areas and consider them deadbeats or lazy asses, but the thing is, they are more "average" than you.

[post="189138"][/post]​

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_..._55/ai_68147472

Typical liberal government bureacrat. At least try some level of accuracy if you're going to spout off. 🙄

First, the "average" family income in the US exceeds 50K. you must be thinking of one of those countries you wish us to imulate (the Europeans), thier averages are much closer to that level.

So did you pay cash for your home? Or did you take out a loan? would you be better without a home and no debt? the only way this country will have any hope of paying for the useless generations SS (baby boomers) is to have a bigger, more productive economy. If we are living in caves with no debt, you won't get a check.

As to countries that "offshore". Which type of company added the higher percent of US jobs? those that outsourced some funtions or those who didn't? sometimes it makes sense to have some tasks done overseas to remain competative. If Boeing can make a 777 more competative against a 330 by having the seats sewn in Malaysia, then what kind of moron would object. BTW, most Europeans have ZERO taxes on money made overseas by multinationals. But the spin sounds so much better huh... 🙄

Healthcare. The plan is to allow a company to PAY for the "savings account". Little johnny gets a little earache. Mommy takes him to the emergency room at 3:00 AM since her current insurance pays 100% for emergency service, but requires a co-pay of $25 for an office visit. The emergency room, wise to the ways of ambulance chasers like Edwards, orders $5000 worth of exotic tests to "cover all the bases" and ensure Johnny's earache isn't the result of the extremely rare African weiner worm. the insurance provider ends up paying big bucks, and most of it's wasted. that's liberal healthcare.

What should happen... Mommy puts a few drops in Johnny's ear. She monitors him. He's doing OK. She sets up an appointment. She gets a Dr. who will charge less than $200 for a 10 minute visit. she then deducts the cost out of the medical savings account. At the end of the year, she has $500 left over. She uses it to buy johnny a fricken book. Meanwhile, the ENTIRE costs of healthcare for that family was $500 that year. they pay another small amount to protect against a catastropic illness. John Edwards is forced to get a real job.

 

[KCFlyer]

Typical liberal government bureacrat. At least try some level of accuracy if you're going to spout off. 🙄

Haven't been reading along, eh bussie...I'm not a liberal. Nor am I a bureacrat.

First, the "average" family income in the US exceeds 50K. you must be thinking of one of those countries you wish us to imulate (the Europeans), thier averages are much closer to that level.

You mean those countries that have medical care for all? So sorry...but the US Census bureau shows that the median household money income is $43,318. Ain't $30k...but it ain't $50k either. YOu can peruse the report if you'd like here. Interesting to note that in Bush's regime, that number has DROPPED. Keep reading down and you'll find that the number of uninsured and the uninsured rate are on the upswing....since 2000. Check out the graphs for poverty level (had been dropping until 2000...it's on the rise now). You can find it at The US Census bureau.

So did you pay cash for your home? Or did you take out a loan?

Damn near. Bought my first home in 1991, sold it in 1997 for a nice profit, made a heckuva down payment on my current home. I wonder who was president during that period where I did so well with my house?

Would you be better without a home and no debt?

Seven more years and I'll have a home and no debt. Right now, that's the only debt I carry.

The only way this country will have any hope of paying for the useless generations SS (baby boomers) is to have a bigger, more productive economy.

You're right....but we don't have that under Bush, unless fry cook is career choice of future MBA's.

If we are living in caves with no debt, you won't get a check.

Are you talking about my debt or the countries debt? If it's the national debt, then are you saying that it really doesn't matter that our debt to foreign countries increases by a million dollars every day? Heck we might reach a point where our current bankers say that they feel a little to exposed with that size of a loan outstanding and we have to turn to...Sacre Bleu...FRANCE to help finance our lifestyle.

As to countries that "offshore". Which type of company added the higher percent of US jobs? those that outsourced some funtions or those who didn't? sometimes it makes sense to have some tasks done overseas to remain competative. If Boeing can make a 777 more competative against a 330 by having the seats sewn in Malaysia, then what kind of moron would object. BTW, most Europeans have ZERO taxes on money made overseas by multinationals. But the spin sounds so much better huh... 🙄

Well...I can only go by what I see in Kansas City. Here, Sprint offshored a bunch of high paying IT jobs. The jobs they kept over here went to folks on H1B visas. They work for less...they're just not US Citizens. The ones that were layed off haven't been called back. Sprints stock price sure is getting better. But the only jobs they added because of offshoring are in the landscaping department. I find it odd that you support offshoring. Would you have a warm fuzzy "huzzah" climbing into your Guppy if UAL decided that they could save a ton of money flying their planes to Haiti so that D checks could be performed?

Healthcare. The plan is to allow a company to PAY for the "savings account". Little johnny gets a little earache. Mommy takes him to the emergency room at 3:00 AM since her current insurance pays 100% for emergency service, but requires a co-pay of $25 for an office visit. The emergency room, wise to the ways of ambulance chasers like Edwards, orders $5000 worth of exotic tests to "cover all the bases" and ensure Johnny's earache isn't the result of the extremely rare African weiner worm. the insurance provider ends up paying big bucks, and most of it's wasted. that's liberal healthcare.

What should happen... Mommy puts a few drops in Johnny's ear. She monitors him. He's doing OK. She sets up an appointment. She gets a Dr. who will charge less than $200 for a 10 minute visit. she then deducts the cost out of the medical savings account. At the end of the year, she has $500 left over. She uses it to buy johnny a fricken book. Meanwhile, the ENTIRE costs of healthcare for that family was $500 that year. they pay another small amount to protect against a catastropic illness. John Edwards is forced to get a real job.

Oh bussie. Because I work in an area you despise, and because my state would vote for Hitler if he had an elephant by his name, I have seen the future of that "compassionate conservative" plan. Here's how it really works: I have an option if I want to have a portion of my pretax dollars put into a "savings account". It isn't the company putting anything in...it's an employee contribitory plan. If little Johnny gets an earache, I take little JOhnny to the doctor who will charge $200 for a 10 minute visit. I take that money out of my savings account. At the end of the year, if I have $500 left over..I lose it. And you know who gets the money? The company. So to keep that from happening, I just have the doc order up a slew of unnessary tests so I don't 'lose any of my hard earned money.

 

[Busdrvr]

"I'm not a liberal. Nor am I a bureacrat"
Yeah, yeah, and the pope ain't polish... And John Kerry isn't liberal either, just ask him 🙄

"You mean those countries that have medical care for all?"

So who is it that has "healthcare for all"? If you are 70 and can't get heart valve replacement, do you have "healthcare"? If you're 65 and can't get dialysis, do you have "healthcare"? If you have to walk on crutches fro 6 months before the can get you in to fuse your knee, when you can get in next week to have it repaired in the US, do you have "healthcare"? I'd say NO. The truth is they RATION IT. there is no free lunch, but somehow, kerry will give us ALL completely free healthcare to see any doctor we want whenever we want. Yeah that'll work. we'll all get free cadillacs also 🙄

'So sorry...but the US Census bureau shows that the median household money income is $43,318."
You said INCOME, not 'money income". BIG Differance. If a soldier gets a "free" house to live in, is that "money income"? If I get a company car, is that "money income"? The "real" median household income in the US is over 50K. But did you notice that the "average money income" for a married couple was substantially higher than "other arrangements"? Yet the dems discourage it.....
But since you like the Euro way, you should be telling everybody that they pay $5 for a gallon of gas over there, and the GDP per person in France Germany and England is more than 25% LESS than here. We got several flights a day if rationed "free healthcare", high fuel prices, hairy female armpits and low wages are your idea of utopia.....

"Are you talking about my debt or the countries debt? If it's the national debt, then are you saying that it really doesn't matter that our debt to foreign countries increases by a million dollars every day?"
Why is that? Is it because Kerry's economic advisor Robby Rubin actively intervened in the foreign currency market to make our exports more expensive, and imports from Japan, China and Europe CHEAPER here? He figured it would force us to be more productive... It did make him and his limosine liberal buddies rich though, after all, with all our goods so expensive, the foreignors had to do something with the dollars, so they put them in the stock market....
But you'll be happy to know that France and Germany are currently running large deficits (as is Japan) and they have MUCH bigger long term retirement funding gaps than we even dream of.

"I find it odd that you support offshoring. Would you have a warm fuzzy "huzzah" climbing into your Guppy if UAL decided that they could save a ton of money flying their planes to Haiti so that D checks could be performed?"

I find it funny that you don't considering your cult like love of Luv. While they don't go offshore YET (Guppy ain't got the legs), they have proven they'll let some Shdy US firms do it with unlisenced labor, while the evil hub and spoke guys were paying real union workers to do the job. Boy talk about consistancy. The simple truth is that "multinational" companies have added more jobs than "US only" ones. That's a fact. Of course, everything I drive and almost everything I wear is made in the USA, can you say the same?

"If little Johnny gets an earache, I take little JOhnny to the doctor who will charge $200 for a 10 minute visit. I take that money out of my savings account. At the end of the year, if I have $500 left over..I lose it. And you know who gets the money? The company. So to keep that from happening, I just have the doc order up a slew of unnessary tests so I don't 'lose any of my hard earned money. "
Fricken DUH, that's NOT the republican plan!!! The republican plan got shot down by the dems. Get yourself educated on the issues, and maybe, just maybe, you'll have some idea just what it is you are voting for when you go with the most liberal man in the senate and a ticket of two millionaire/BILLIONAIRE trial lawyers.

 

[KCFlyer]

Yeah, yeah, and the pope ain't polish... And John Kerry isn't liberal either, just ask him 🙄

Think what you will...but I tend to believe that the definintion of "conservative" means that you don't spend money that you don't have.

So who is it that has "healthcare for all"? If you are 70 and can't get heart valve replacement, do you have "healthcare"? If you're 65 and can't get dialysis, do you have "healthcare"? If you have to walk on crutches fro 6 months before the can get you in to fuse your knee, when you can get in next week to have it repaired in the US, do you have "healthcare"? I'd say NO. The truth is they RATION IT. there is no free lunch, but somehow, kerry will give us ALL completely free healthcare to see any doctor we want whenever we want. Yeah that'll work. we'll all get free cadillacs also 🙄

Yeah..and I'm sure that you heard and believe the stories about Canadians flocking accross the border to take advantage of US medical facilities since they have to wait years in their own country. I was on a cruise last March that had an awful lot of Canadians on board. I chatted with them over the course of that cruise and I asked them about the long waits and the "poor" medical care they received. They all laughed at that one. Said it wasn't true. And the medications that they take (that they pay a fraction of the cost for up there) seem to be pretty safe for them....it's nice Bushie is concerned for our safety and wants to stop the flow of prescription medications from Canada, but I think he's more concerned about the safe flow of money from the pharmacutical industy to the GOP. 🙄

You said INCOME, not 'money income". BIG Differance. If a soldier gets a "free" house to live in, is that "money income"? If I get a company car, is that "money income"? The "real" median household income in the US is over 50K. But did you notice that the "average money income" for a married couple was substantially higher than "other arrangements"? Yet the dems discourage it.....
But since you like the Euro way, you should be telling everybody that they pay $5 for a gallon of gas over there, and the GDP per person in France Germany and England is more than 25% LESS than here. We got several flights a day if rationed "free healthcare", high fuel prices, hairy female armpits and low wages are your idea of utopia.....

Oh...I didn't realize that the working poor in this country could take advantage of company cars. Sure would make it easier for them to get to and from work that way. And...who pays for the house that the soldier gets to live in? Where did they get that money from? How was that money funded? Inquiring minds want to know.

Gas prices....glad you asked. I'm getting a Toyota Prius....60 mpg around town and it will haul the 5 of us and lots of cargo. So let 'em raise the gas prices to help fund the war effort. I mean...might as well source the funds for that war from the source of what that country offers us. I'll honk and wave at the sole occpants of the Ford Excursions, Lincoln Navigators and GMC Yukons I pass onmy daily rounds and might chat with them the one time per month that I fill my 11 gallon gas tank.

Why is that? Is it because Kerry's economic advisor Robby Rubin actively intervened in the foreign currency market to make our exports more expensive, and imports from Japan, China and Europe CHEAPER here? He figured it would force us to be more productive... It did make him and his limosine liberal buddies rich though, after all, with all our goods so expensive, the foreignors had to do something with the dollars, so they put them in the stock market....
But you'll be happy to know that France and Germany are currently running large deficits (as is Japan) and they have MUCH bigger long term retirement funding gaps than we even dream of.

Hey...so we'll have company in bankruptcy court. Are those other countries deficits approaching a trillion dollars?

I find it funny that you don't considering your cult like love of Luv. While they don't go offshore YET (Guppy ain't got the legs), they have proven they'll let some Shdy US firms do it with unlisenced labor, while the evil hub and spoke guys were paying real union workers to do the job. Boy talk about consistancy. The simple truth is that "multinational" companies have added more jobs than "US only" ones. That's a fact. Of course, everything I drive and almost everything I wear is made in the USA, can you say the same?

Believe I also read that SWA is bringing more heavy maintenance "in house".

I tried driving a "made in USA" car, but it turned out it was made in Canada. My brother in law drives a "made in USA" Yukon, but it turns out that it was mostly made in Mexico. You might also read up on what consitutes "made in USA" for clothing...there's a place called the "Marshall Islands" where clothes qualify for the "made in USA" label...even though it's made with sweatshop labor. But...if it makes you feel good....and here I thought only lefty liberals cared about feelings. Actually, a liberal lefty, Ben Cohen, started the sweatx clothing line. Made in USA by union employees who are paid a living wage. Might look into them if you really want made in USA clothing.

Fricken DUH, that's NOT the republican plan!!! The republican plan got shot down by the dems. Get yourself educated on the issues, and maybe, just maybe, you'll have some idea just what it is you are voting for when you go with the most liberal man in the senate and a ticket of two millionaire/BILLIONAIRE trial lawyers.

The "plan" hasn't been implemented yet. But trust me, in order to get buyoff from corporations, they'll want to make it as appealing as possible for them. So company sponsored health care...nope...it'll be employee funded...mark my words. The icing on the cake will be the "use it or lose it" provision. Wait and see. And is a billionaire trial lawyer any worse that a couple of billionaire oil bidness boys??

 

[TWAnr]

Of course, everything I drive and almost everything I wear is made in the USA, can you say the same?

[post="189586"][/post]​

(Air)bus driver,

I did not know that the Airbus that you drive, the one with the big TED on its sides, is made in the USA.

🙄

You are attacking KCFlyer for driving a Toyota. Toyota manufactures over a million vehicles a year in its U.S. plants (not Canada or Mexico, mind you).

 

[AA-MCI]

If you are 70 and can't get heart valve replacement, do you have "healthcare"? If you're 65 and can't get dialysis, do you have "healthcare"? If you have to walk on crutches fro 6 months before the can get you in to fuse your knee, when you can get in next week to have it repaired in the US, do you have "healthcare"? I'd say NO.

[post="189586"][/post]​

I'd say you were a member of my HMO, where all those things are happening because of money but the premiums keep increasing. Now the Republicans want to change the law so you can't sue for bad care, some healthcare plan!

 

[NWA/AMT]

(Air)bus driver,

I did not know that the Airbus that you drive, the one with the big TED on its sides, is made in the USA.

[post="189664"][/post]​

NOW we're in murky territory. Roughly 45% of the A320 is made in the US and roughly 45% of the Next Generation 737 is made in the US. Now 'Fly American'.

 

[Whadayano]

The "plan" hasn't been implemented yet. But trust me, in order to get buyoff from corporations, they'll want to make it as appealing as possible for them. So company sponsored health care...nope...it'll be employee funded...mark my words. The icing on the cake will be the "use it or lose it" provision. Wait and see. And is a billionaire trial lawyer any worse that a couple of billionaire oil bidness boys??

[post="189641"][/post]​

Let it be on the record that the use it or lose it provision was the amendment of one Ted Kennedy of Mass. to the Health Saving Plan part of the bill (although he was loudly against the whole test) because he didn't want "fat-cats" to be using it to avoid taxes. And of course, he devoutly hopes the test will fail, so that even if Kerry loses, the Hillary-care plan will triumph. Also on the record--the Kerry health plan bill was initially scored by Kerry's advisor (a prof from Emory) at over $1 trillion; after some frantic calls from Boston he announced (so far unspecified) "savings" would reduce it to $680 billion. Add in other Kerry proposals the numbers add up to an incremental $2 trillion--a mere 20% of total GDP...

 

[Busdrvr]

"I was on a cruise last March that had an awful lot of Canadians on board. I chatted with them over the course of that cruise and I asked them about the long waits and the "poor" medical care they received."

Wow, you were on a cruise with canadians... Did you ask them why their economy produced so much less per person than ours? but back to the point, I know from experience. my Brother in law had that exact situation. A knee injury that would require surgery after an MRI. 6 months was the expected wait time in Calgary. A local Dr was going to "pull some strings" to get it done in around 4. the plan was to fuse his knee joint. He went to Washington State and had surgery within 2 weeks, and was on a bicycle in one month. i guess he wasn't on your cruise....

"But...if it makes you feel good....and here I thought only lefty liberals cared about feelings. Actually, a liberal lefty, Ben Cohen, started the sweatx clothing line."
I'm happy with Brooks Brothers

"Hey...so we'll have company in bankruptcy court. Are those other countries deficits approaching a trillion dollars?"

Actually Japans deficit is a considerably larger percent of GDP than ours. But please explain your point. Just what is it the Chineses or whoever else will do? Reposes the country? GMAFB

"And the medications that they take (that they pay a fraction of the cost for up there) seem to be pretty safe for them....it's nice Bushie is concerned for our safety and wants to stop the flow of prescription medications from Canada, but I think he's more concerned about the safe flow of money from the pharmacutical industy to the GOP."
Now that statement takes the cake. Talk about uninformed lefties.... Let me explain how the industry works since you apparently don't understand. A drug company spends BILLIONS of dollars researching and testing to develope a new drug. Of all the new drugs, only a fraction will actually make it to the market. when it does, they have a limited time to make their investment back before they lose the exclusive rights to the very thing they developed. Although it may only cost 25 cents to manufacture the pill, they must make up the extremely large R&D expenditure (and arguably the marketing cost) during this period. Given that cost and a reasonable profit level, they find they must charge $2 a pill. Now they determine that they can also sell million of pills in Mexico for 30 cents each to make a little incremental revenue. This is called price discrimination and allows more of the product to be produced and sold. Now a bunch of small brained liberals decide that we shoiuld pay the same price as they do in Mexico. Do you think the company keeps the supplies rolling across the border? Do they lower the price in the US? NO. They cut mexico OFF. then to make up the revenue differance, they juck the price in the US up to $2.50. the truth is many drugs being sold in Canada, are done strictly limited volumn wise. Americans come accross, the canadians don't get meds, and in the long term, they'll lose access to modern drugs.

BTW, have those socialized countries been leading the world in new medical treatments and drugs? NOPE. But you have a choice. If you don't like the cost of a new drug that SOMEONE ELSE developed, that SOMEONE ELSE risked huge amounts of money to bring to the market, THEN DON'T BUY IT!! "but then I'd die", that's what you expect everyone else to do in the future when investment in medical advances ceases because of dumb@ss lefties.... Hey, but the trial lawyers will makeout ok!!

"And is a billionaire trial lawyer any worse that a couple of billionaire oil bidness boys??"
YES!!!! the oil guy actually PRODUCES something other than higher healthcare costs.

"Gas prices....glad you asked. I'm getting a Toyota Prius....60 mpg around town and it will haul the 5 of us and lots of cargo. So let 'em raise the gas prices to help fund the war effort. I mean...might as well source the funds for that war from the source of what that country offers us. I'll honk and wave at the sole occpants of the Ford Excursions, Lincoln Navigators and GMC Yukons I pass onmy daily rounds and might chat with them the one time per month that I fill my 11 gallon gas tank."

First, who the HE11 are you to decide what someone else drives (of wait, from the last post, it's clear, a socialist). and second, how much more gas would you save if you moved into a 1000 SF apartment near work (within walking of biking distance). Wealthy (by Kerry standards) liberals driving in from the Burbs. you crack me up. What are you going to do with the evil pickup truck and big chrysler? I guess you'll be the rest of the left, driving your prius to the airport to board the private jet... How many mansions, SUV's and jets does oil conserving liberal Kerry have? BTW, as someone who knows a thing or two about energy, your post on that string cracked me up.... you need to read more.

 

[KCFlyer]

Actually Japans deficit is a considerably larger percent of GDP than ours. But please explain your point. Just what is it the Chineses or whoever else will do? Reposes the country? GMAFB

Gee...you're starting to sound like those do noting welfare cheats...run up a bill and then say "screw them'" and file bankruptcy.,

First, who the HE11 are you to decide what someone else drives (of wait, from the last post, it's clear, a socialist). and second, how much more gas would you save if you moved into a 1000 SF apartment near work (within walking of biking distance). Wealthy (by Kerry standards) liberals driving in from the Burbs. you crack me up. What are you going to do with the evil pickup truck and big chrysler? I guess you'll be the rest of the left, driving your prius to the airport to board the private jet... How many mansions, SUV's and jets does oil conserving liberal Kerry have? BTW, as someone who knows a thing or two about energy, your post on that string cracked me up.... you need to read more.

Hey... to each their own. I want cheap oil as much as the next person, but I ain't willing to spill American blood over in the middle east to get it. You like to cite supply and demand and research costs with drugs...why is it "leftist" to suggest that maybe, with the US holding only 3% of the worlds oil, that we look for some alternative methods? Sure the price might go higher for the regular old oil for those SUV's that Americans love to slap their "support our troops" magnets on, but hey...it'd be paying for research to fund an energy source that might mean that our troops would be able to be home, rather than risking their lives protecting our "freedom" to drive a tank to work. Meanwhile, I'll excercise my freedom to buy something that only needs 10 gallons of gas once a month. And my "private jet" of choice has the Southwest logo on it. How much gas does a 747 burn on a campaign run?

 

[NWA/AMT]

Just what is it the Chineses or whoever else will do? Reposes the country? GMAFB

[post="189727"][/post]​

Seize the assets of US corporations in their countries? That's what we used to do back when we were a creditor nation, before Reagan.

Let me explain how the industry works since you apparently don't understand. A drug company spends BILLIONS of dollars researching and testing to develope a new drug.

And MILLIONS on massive advertising campaigns to sell as much of that drug to as many people as possible, whether they really need it or not. "Go ahead and ask your doctor about new PlaviChloriDolGra", even if you don't have the illness the drug is alleged to cure, on the chance that he'll prescribe it anyway. It's not like doctors feel pressured to prescribe drugs their patients ask about, is it?

FDA article on the impact of direct-to-consumer drug advertising

If you don't like the cost of a new drug that SOMEONE ELSE developed, that SOMEONE ELSE risked huge amounts of money to bring to the market, THEN DON'T BUY IT!!

Like you have a choice. When new drugs are brought to market, the older drugs that did the same job are 'sunsetted', or retired, so that your choices are limited to one manufacturers expensive drug or another.

Is it reasonable for a drug company to expect to amortize their R&D costs in the first three years rather than in the 20 years of exclusivity they have on the patent on that drug? Even airlines don't expect airplanes to pay for themselves instantly.

"but then I'd die", that's what you expect everyone else to do in the future when investment in medical advances ceases because of dumb@ss lefties....

Medicine did pretty well under those 'dumb@ass lefties' during the 20th century. Jonas Salk wasn't working for GlaxoSmithKlineBeechamLilly LLC when he cured Polio, he was working on a government grant from a bunch of 'dumb@ss lefties' who thought curing the illness was more important than worrying about who profited from it.