The real question today is...WHY?

[tech2101]

The gentlemen at work who are former NW mechs swear that the IAM performed struck work during the strike. Examples they used were pushbacks and aircraft cleaning. I don't know about the air freight operations.

They also told me that a lot of the SCABS are former IAM officers. That's amazing!

I did mean that it was blessed by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. Not the AMFA international.

Yes, prior to us striking, we had Lead ESE's and ESE's traveling to other cities to get trained to perform our work. This was done while we were still on the job. They were getting some sort of incentive pay to train to do struck work. Kev has more info on that. I'm quite sure he wasn't one of the volunteers who went on these hero scab training missions.

 

[Kev3188]

I did mean that it was blessed by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. Not the AMFA international.

The IAM "leadership" was foaming at the mouth not at the prospect of increased membership, or anything like that, but rather the idea that they could finally "stick it" to the AMFA membership for leaving. It's been my experience that the masses on the floor didn't necessarily agree with that (I sure didn't).

Yes, prior to us striking, we had Lead ESE's and ESE's traveling to other cities to get trained to perform our work. This was done while we were still on the job. They were getting some sort of incentive pay to train to do struck work. Kev has more info on that.

I hadn't heard anything about incentive pay, but I do know that people that were already trained on pushbacks (ie folks in non AMFA stations who were doing it already) were being sent to the hubs to train the ESE's there. I also know that some were sent to the desert to learn to push widebodies.

As an interesting aside, one of the ESE's in my current station went to MSP to sign folks off, to this day, she can't understand why she was told to "f**k off" so many times as she went from unit to unit looking for volunteers.

I'm quite sure he wasn't one of the volunteers who went on these hero scab training missions.

Absolutely correct.

I decided to bet the other way, and refused to perform pushbacks, airstarts and tows while in a station with AMT's on strike. It was an easy decision; it was my friends who were on strike. FWIW, my current city never had any AMT's or Plant Maintenance or Cleaners.

 

[tech2101]

I hadn't heard anything about incentive pay

I think the incentive was overtime rate plus per diem...to help the company screw your fellow worker...only to screw you at the next turn. Some people are blinded by greed.

We also had many at our station who saw through the plan and refused to assist the company in doing our struck work. Most of the people who did the training and signed people off did not have enough seniority to remain after your IAM concessions...

 

[Necrophilias]

The IAM "leadership" was foaming at the mouth not at the prospect of increased membership, or anything like that, but rather the idea that they could finally "stick it" to the AMFA membership for leaving. It's been my experience that the masses on the floor didn't necessarily agree with that (I sure didn't).
I hadn't heard anything about incentive pay, but I do know that people that were already trained on pushbacks (ie folks in non AMFA stations who were doing it already) were being sent to the hubs to train the ESE's there. I also know that some were sent to the desert to learn to push widebodies.

As an interesting aside, one of the ESE's in my current station went to MSP to sign folks off, to this day, she can't understand why she was told to "f**k off" so many times as she went from unit to unit looking for volunteers.
Absolutely correct.

I decided to bet the other way, and refused to perform pushbacks, airstarts and tows while in a station with AMT's on strike. It was an easy decision; it was my friends who were on strike. FWIW, my current city never had any AMT's or Plant Maintenance or Cleaners.

Kev,

You pretty much explained why so many of the AMFA Srikers call the IAM a "SCAB union". What kind of union would encourage it's members to cross a picket line and perform struck work?

Bobby DePace (or as you call him Disgrace) must be a marginal individual.

 

[RobertD]

Kev,

You pretty much explained why so many of the AMFA Srikers call the IAM a "SCAB union". What kind of union would encourage it's members to cross a picket line and perform struck work?

Bobby DePace (or as you call him Disgrace) must be a marginal individual.

I think under these circumstances, EVERYONE should call the IAM a scab union. I also feel every union should get together and disband them from even calling themselves a union.

They should be fined, no slap on the wrist...
They should be shunned by EVERY UNION!
Can't blame one person or even a few leaders. The members are the Union, therefore they should get rid of the IAM.

 

[Necrophilias]

I think under these circumstances, EVERYONE should call the IAM a scab union. I also feel every union should get together and disband them from even calling themselves a union.

They should be fined, no slap on the wrist...
They should be shunned by EVERY UNION!
Can't blame one person or even a few leaders. The members are the Union, therefore they should get rid of the IAM.

At the very least the IAM is an embarrassment to other labor unions. Why does the current NW rank and file keep the IAM?

 

[RobertD]

At the very least the IAM is an embarrassment to other labor unions. Why does the current NW rank and file keep the IAM?

I don't know...guess the members don't know the meaning of a true union. Everyone is out for themselves these days..

I don't know why they even bother to have Unions.

Well maybe I do, the slugs need them to cover their a$$e$, The true unionist will only bash their heads against the wall when its contract and voting time...

I say tar, feather and hang the IAM.

 

[Kev3188]

At the very least the IAM is an embarrassment to other labor unions. Why does the current NW rank and file keep the IAM?

Any other AFL-CIO union is bound by a no raid clause...

That more or less leaves the Teamsters, and they aren't interested in organizing at NWA right now.

If I had my way, we'd be signing "A cards" already.

I don't know...guess the members don't know the meaning of a true union. Everyone is out for themselves these days..

A good lot *do* know the meaning...It's just an uphill battle against the complacent ones, the "I got mine, brother" ones, and the idiots.

I don't know why they even bother to have Unions.

Well maybe I do, the slugs need them to cover their a$$e$,

Or maybe to protect/defend them from the capricious ways of NWA mgmt.

The true unionist will only bash their heads against the wall when its contract and voting time...

Mine still hurts....

 

[groundcontrol]

QUOTE (RobertP)
I don't know why they even bother to have Unions.
Well maybe I do, the slugs need them to cover their a$$e$,

QUOTE (KEV)
Or maybe to protect/defend them from the capricious ways of NWA mgmt

Well Kev, don't know why you'd want the slugs,(you know the one's that vanish till the work is done) to have "protection/defense" from the ways on NW mgmt.

I say fire the slugs...too many years were wasted covering for these types then when push came to shove, the slugs (most of 'em) were the ones who went crawling back.

There is no room for them in a union. I think NW mgmt has a new found fondness for these types.

They'll stab you in the backs all the time.
And there you'll be hitting your head against the wall.

ps...life lesson learned

 

[JAFA]

Bobby DePace (or as you call him Disgrace) must be a marginal individual.

MARGINAL??? You give the backstabbing lazy SOB that much credit? PUH-LEASE. He was a useless lazy waste of a paycheck on the JFK ramp, even lazier at LGA (why do you think he he bought the house in MSP and stayed there?), and his kid only narrowly missed finding his lazy useless hide stuffed in the aft bin of a 9 and sipped out to daddy by inches. This is someone who would only defend members who supported him in his quest for power. As Dictator for 143 he never did anything for anyone who wasn't "on his team". Any of us who supported Kip's slate in 2002 were promptly F*ck by Bobby every chance he got to get even. You had to see the look on his worthless face when I explained, very respectfully (not my usual loud mouth way), why I would support the Kip slate even despite many disagreements with him over what we need. I knew right then and there I better always watch my back, luckily that is one of my better skills. He next leads 143 into being the union of scabs, remember this was long before August 05. Anyone remember the AS ramp lockout in SEA? Those guys were in the same district and what does Bobby have 143 do? That's right keep interlining those bags to AS, even the tail to tails. Wouldn't that be struck work? Wouldn't that mean crossing a picket line manned by brothers and sisters of the very same district and union? Oh, I see that was just the practice to become scabs at our own employer when ESE's could be told that cleaning and pushbacks were NOT struck work because, wait for it, "that work was IAM work stolen by AMFA". WHAT!?! Wasn't that work always in a differant book? Didn't the employees covered by that book vote IAM out on it's arse? Wait, we're not done. Now if I want to honor a valid picket line at my work location (a right guaranteed under the RLA) what does Bobby tell me? We can't guarantee you won't be fired. Excuse me, try that again. Luckily some of us found a way around that and then a few pushed the issue and even the company agreed we had that right. Still not done Bobby Descab then recomends a concessionary TA that cancels all recall rights for anyone laid off prior to the bankruptcy. Wait, there's more, when I asked him (and his puppets known as the negotiating commitee) what the monthly payouts for the new IAM national pension plan would be he had no answer, but it would be "similiar" to what we had now. Yeah right, numbers finally came out recently my service time was credited as $56/month per year of service (SOC positions were under the sup rate) and if I had stuck around for this enema I would be down to aprox $35/month per year of service, yup sounds similiar to me. As the OP points out anyone who stuck it out is just plain nuts. Sorry Kev, like many others here I am way ahead of not only where I was, but where I would've been even without the BK, strike, and concessions.

 

[Kev3188]

Great post!

EDIT: I don't know why the quote function isn't working, so my responses are in bold.

MARGINAL??? You give the backstabbing lazy SOB that much credit? PUH-LEASE. He was a useless lazy waste of a paycheck on the JFK ramp, even lazier at LGA (why do you think he he bought the house in MSP and stayed there?), and his kid only narrowly missed finding his lazy useless hide stuffed in the aft bin of a 9 and sipped out to daddy by inches.

I wonder whatever became of his son? One day, he jsut disappeared from the seniority lists....Also interesting to note that furloughs always stopped when it got to him...

This is someone who would only defend members who supported him in his quest for power. As Dictator for 143 he never did anything for anyone who wasn't "on his team".

A lesson I learned as well. The fastest way to fall out of favor with this crowd was to be the voice of dissent. I was also told that he "knew which stations voted for him, and would remember that." So much for fair representation. :angry: :down:

Any of us who supported Kip's slate in 2002 were promptly F*ck by Bobby every chance he got to get even. You had to see the look on his worthless face when I explained, very respectfully (not my usual loud mouth way), why I would support the Kip slate even despite many disagreements with him over what we need.

I was a big Hedges fan as well (even more so after the strike), I wonder how things would be if he had gotten in?

I knew right then and there I better always watch my back, luckily that is one of my better skills. He next leads 143 into being the union of scabs, remember this was long before August 05. Anyone remember the AS ramp lockout in SEA? Those guys were in the same district and what does Bobby have 143 do? That's right keep interlining those bags to AS, even the tail to tails. Wouldn't that be struck work? Wouldn't that mean crossing a picket line manned by brothers and sisters of the very same district and union?

Sadly, I had forgotten about this. Another question would be why it's taking so long to rectify this lockout. IIRC, it's still in arbitration? WTF?

Oh, I see that was just the practice to become scabs at our own employer when ESE's could be told that cleaning and pushbacks were NOT struck work because, wait for it, "that work was IAM work stolen by AMFA". WHAT!?! Wasn't that work always in a different book?

Actually, it's in the ESSC book as well. My only quibble with your above point is that it was struck work at the points where AMT's and Cleaners were employed. No question on that.

At the 100 or so other points it was "business as usual."

Having said that, what DePace did was inexcusable.

Didn't the employees covered by that book vote IAM out on it's arse?

Yep. And the IAM should have taken that as a clarion call to change the way they operated.

Wait, we're not done. Now if I want to honor a valid picket line at my work location (a right guaranteed under the RLA) what does Bobby tell me? We can't guarantee you won't be fired. Excuse me, try that again.

Another low point for these guys. For those that might not know, every IAM employee received a letter from DePace basically saying that they would not enforce article 26 (??) of our CBA, which states that we do not have to cross a legal picket line. Their rationale was that the line wasn't "legal," and therefore, it was okay to go.

Luckily some of us found a way around that and then a few pushed the issue and even the company agreed we had that right.

I find it interesting that management took a more sympathetic tone towards this than the union. In my case, when he found out I refused to perform the work in question my General Chair was furious.

Still not done Bobby Descab then recomends a concessionary TA that cancels all recall rights for anyone laid off prior to the bankruptcy.

This seems like a "non economic" issue.... I wonder what they/we got in return for this?

Wait, there's more, when I asked him (and his puppets known as the negotiating commitee) what the monthly payouts for the new IAM national pension plan would be he had no answer, but it would be "similiar" to what we had now. Yeah right, numbers finally came out recently my service time was credited as $56/month per year of service (SOC positions were under the sup rate) and if I had stuck around for this enema I would be down to aprox $35/month per year of service, yup sounds similiar to me.

I just found out what the multiplier was a couple of weeks ago. For me, it'll be $36.94/month. :down: I don't ever factor that $$$ (or the now frozen pension) in when planning my financial future

As the OP points out anyone who stuck it out is just plain nuts. Sorry Kev, like many others here I am way ahead of not only where I was, but where I would've been even without the BK, strike, and concessions.

No need to apologize to me; I am sincerely glad that you're doing well. 🙂

 

[Necrophilias]

MARGINAL??? You give the backstabbing lazy SOB that much credit? PUH-LEASE. He was a useless lazy waste of a paycheck on the JFK ramp, even lazier at LGA (why do you think he he bought the house in MSP and stayed there?), and his kid only narrowly missed finding his lazy useless hide stuffed in the aft bin of a 9 and sipped out to daddy by inches. This is someone who would only defend members who supported him in his quest for power. As Dictator for 143 he never did anything for anyone who wasn't "on his team". Any of us who supported Kip's slate in 2002 were promptly F*ck by Bobby every chance he got to get even. You had to see the look on his worthless face when I explained, very respectfully (not my usual loud mouth way), why I would support the Kip slate even despite many disagreements with him over what we need. I knew right then and there I better always watch my back, luckily that is one of my better skills. He next leads 143 into being the union of scabs, remember this was long before August 05. Anyone remember the AS ramp lockout in SEA? Those guys were in the same district and what does Bobby have 143 do? That's right keep interlining those bags to AS, even the tail to tails. Wouldn't that be struck work? Wouldn't that mean crossing a picket line manned by brothers and sisters of the very same district and union? Oh, I see that was just the practice to become scabs at our own employer when ESE's could be told that cleaning and pushbacks were NOT struck work because, wait for it, "that work was IAM work stolen by AMFA". WHAT!?! Wasn't that work always in a differant book? Didn't the employees covered by that book vote IAM out on it's arse? Wait, we're not done. Now if I want to honor a valid picket line at my work location (a right guaranteed under the RLA) what does Bobby tell me? We can't guarantee you won't be fired. Excuse me, try that again. Luckily some of us found a way around that and then a few pushed the issue and even the company agreed we had that right. Still not done Bobby Descab then recomends a concessionary TA that cancels all recall rights for anyone laid off prior to the bankruptcy. Wait, there's more, when I asked him (and his puppets known as the negotiating commitee) what the monthly payouts for the new IAM national pension plan would be he had no answer, but it would be "similiar" to what we had now. Yeah right, numbers finally came out recently my service time was credited as $56/month per year of service (SOC positions were under the sup rate) and if I had stuck around for this enema I would be down to aprox $35/month per year of service, yup sounds similiar to me. As the OP points out anyone who stuck it out is just plain nuts. Sorry Kev, like many others here I am way ahead of not only where I was, but where I would've been even without the BK, strike, and concessions.

Earlier in this thread when I used the phrase "foward thinking" this is what I had in mind. You've done a great job of taking care of yourself and getting away from a terrible employer.

While others stay at SCABAIR and attempt to hold on to the biggest nothing...you've moved on well.

While everyone who had read this thread doesn't appreciate our posts it's important to be honest and urge others to move on.

Remember folks, everyone who tells you what you don't want to hear...isn't your enemy!

 

[tech2101]

Great post!

EDIT: I don't know why the quote function isn't working, so my responses are in bold.
I wonder whatever became of his son? One day, he jsut disappeared from the seniority lists....Also interesting to note that furloughs always stopped when it got to him...
A lesson I learned as well. The fastest way to fall out of favor with this crowd was to be the voice of dissent. I was also told that he "knew which stations voted for him, and would remember that." So much for fair representation. :angry: :down:
I was a big Hedges fan as well (even more so after the strike), I wonder how things would be if he had gotten in?
Sadly, I had forgotten about this. Another question would be why it's taking so long to rectify this lockout. IIRC, it's still in arbitration? WTF?
Actually, it's in the ESSC book as well. My only quibble with your above point is that it was struck work at the points where AMT's and Cleaners were employed. No question on that.

At the 100 or so other points it was "business as usual."

Having said that, what DePace did was inexcusable.


Yep. And the IAM should have taken that as a clarion call to change the way they operated.



Another low point for these guys. For those that might not know, every IAM employee received a letter from DePace basically saying that they would not enforce article 26 (??) of our CBA, which states that we do not have to cross a legal picket line. Their rationale was that the line wasn't "legal," and therefore, it was okay to go.
I find it interesting that management took a more sympathetic tone towards this than the union. In my case, when he found out I refused to perform the work in question my General Chair was furious.
This seems like a "non economic" issue.... I wonder what they/we got in return for this?


I just found out what the multiplier was a couple of weeks ago. For me, it'll be $36.94/month. :down: I don't ever factor that $$$ (or the now frozen pension) in when planning my financial future
No need to apologize to me; I am sincerely glad that you're doing well. 🙂

Here is Kev ===>
View attachment 6146

 

[Necrophilias]

Here is Kev ===>
View attachment 6146

If Kev is experiencing headaches from beating his head against the wall at NW I can understand why.

His post above outlined his experience, interaction and feelings toward the state of sick unionism at NW.

Thanks Kev

 

[PlayTheOdds]

NHBB SAYS:

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
In regard to MY posts...PTO....EVEN a ..."PUTRID....PUSS OOZING......INFECTIOUS (REAL) S C A B( LIKE "YOU") .....knows that there are NO scabs(ZERO), working in any NW Air Freight houses.
Nice try though.
NH/BB's

tech2101 SAYS:

All NWA Freighters were maintained and pushed/towed by AMFA represented mechanics prior to us going on strike on 8.19.2005. Anyone who performed maintenance work or pushed and towed the freighters while we were on strike would have performed struck work. The IAM did the push/tow work with the International's blessing. There are many scabs at NWA freighter locations throughout the world who performed our work while we were on strike.

Whats up NHBB? Are you a Grandstand Cheerleading Scab Breeder or not? Is your "Offspring" a "Real Scab" or a fake Scab? Is there a differance? I think tech2101 knows, do you?