Things AA "can" afford

[737823]

Typical anti-worker, pro company blowharded remarks!
Were you nice and comfy over the last couple of snow storms? While the "bricks" as you call us got to work, worked in the worst of elements so big shot frequent flyers like yourself could look out the terminal windows and look down at the "bricks" and say to yourself how much better you are than them.
I could care less about JAL and BA "big shot passenger lounges."

You can go scratch your you know what!

I remember AA's historical success when they gave employees a few percent increase over a 6 year period.

Spare me the "oh, you low life workers should be greatful to have jobs and should bend over more so AA can be a success and offer BIG SHOT FLYERS LIKE JOSH CAN GET MORE AMMENITIES AND MAYBE A MASSAGE IN THE ADMIRAL'S CLUB.

Go fly Jetblue and Southwest to Europe,, I hope you can swim long distances.

Yes I was actually flying DL on ATL-BOS last night and the wonderful (non-union) personell got the flight out despite the weather and were very cheerful and professional despite bad weather and angry passengers. ATL was a mess but fortunately I was on the final ATL-BOS last night which was the only flight that didn't cancel.

BA and JAL bring revenue to AA so its interesting you say you could care less. The fact of the matter is every dollar AA spends on employee compensation and benefits is a dollar taken from aircraft, facility, and other capital projects that would both benefit passengers, and generate revenue to provide job security for employees. I'm sorry if your unionist mind doesn't see it this way, but I'm in reality and the fact is passengers pay your salaries and sustain AA so you should have regard for passenger interests. AA lounges and Flagship Suite/Next Generation Business Class are a dated and uncompetitive especially with inadequate catering, wine/liquor, amenities and disgruntled FAs.

I'm not going to denigrate AA employees but I do think many should just be glad they have jobs and have fared remarkably better than your counterparts at other carriers. I respect that AA has vowed to keep maintenance work in the United States and also flies fewer RJs than DL or UA for example, but the minute the unions become unwilling to help AA remain visible I have zero sympathy for the jobs lost due to outsourcing to regional carriers or farming out maintenance.

Josh

 

[Hopeful]

Perhaps AA hasn't proposed getting rid of overhaul because the status quo is the cheapest (or most desirable) of the alternatives. My WAG is that AA would be amenable to paying the line employees more as long as the TUL and AFW employees didn't go along for the ride. AA would probably like to keep the overhaul in-house to control quality, etc and would like to keep paying the base employees about the same wages they are currently getting.

Hopeful, you don't have to be "privileged executive" to realize that AA can't afford to restore the concessions, and raising AA mx wages to UPS-levels would cost more than "restore."

No one is asking for UPS wages. Their mechanics are nearing $50 an hour.
We are asking for restore at least.
And if you think asking to be restored to 2003 is unrealistic, then you yourself are unrealistic.
Imagine, asking to be restored to a period about 8 years ago is unrealistic.

I know the "priviliged" didn't have to wait long at all to get their restoration!

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip
I know the "priviliged" didn't have to wait long at all to get their restoration!

... they only waited 2 weeks ...

 

[700UW]

Yes I was actually flying DL on ATL-BOS last night and the wonderful (non-union) personell got the flight out despite the weather and were very cheerful and professional despite bad weather and angry passengers. ATL was a mess but fortunately I was on the final ATL-BOS last night which was the only flight that didn't cancel.


Josh

Guess you forgot those pesky pilots who got you there safe are union and the dispatchers who decided on your flight plan and how much fuel you need are union also.

Don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[odie01]

Perhaps AA hasn't proposed getting rid of overhaul because the status quo is the cheapest (or most desirable) of the alternatives. My WAG is that AA would be amenable to paying the line employees more as long as the TUL and AFW employees didn't go along for the ride. AA would probably like to keep the overhaul in-house to control quality, etc and would like to keep paying the base employees about the same wages they are currently getting.

Hopeful, you don't have to be "privileged executive" to realize that AA can't afford to restore the concessions, and raising AA mx wages to UPS-levels would cost more than "restore."

Their is no doubt in my mind that AA is making money, and or offsetting their maintenance costs with third party work. AA has big plans for more third party contracts according to volume1 of the new monthly news letter I read yesterday, for all THREE maintenance bases. I know for a fact TAESL/AA is making money on their engines. 50-60% of the motors we ship are third party, not to mention we put out our 2000th engine a few weeks ago, evidently it was a big deal because they catered dinner for both shifts, and everyone received a button up TAESL work shirt, with 2000th engine on the sleeve. Bottom line, I don't believe AA is in as bad a shape as they portray, and its time they negotiate in good faith with the workers that saved them from bankruptcy, and enabled them to pay off their debt, so they could buy planes with their profits.

 

[wcs]

The fact of the matter is every dollar AA spends on employee compensation and benefits is a dollar taken from aircraft, facility, and other capital projects that would both benefit passengers, and generate revenue to provide job security for employees.

This is the problem with your rhetoric. Your statement views employees only as a cost center instead of also being a way to generate revenue. New capital projects, aircraft and facilities ARE necessary to generate and expand revenue. But experienced employees ARE required to prevent erosion of revenue and increase in costs. AA maintains aircraft overhaul in house because they have better quality control as FWAAA surmised. They also have better turn around time resulting in less aircraft down time and more resulting revenue from those aircraft. AA employees are "bricks" as you and an AA vice-president have expressed. But they are also the "mortar" and combine to make a foundation to keep this airline from becoming a "virtual" company. You wouldn't like a "virtual" airline. Just ask the B6 passengers that couldn't rebook online or reach a real person on the phone during the recent off-schedule operations.

but I'm in reality and the fact is passengers pay your salaries and sustain AA

What you neglect to mention is that passengers pay our salaries at a much smaller rate than in the recent past. That has created a dynamic where employee pay cuts are beginning to subsidize air fares. And you're asking for more employee concessions that will, in truth, be the real way AA is sustained.

 

[Frank Szabo]

For the life of me, I'll never understand why those representing themselves as high-rollers come on this site to argue with mechanics nor will I ever understand why the mechanics continue to entertain them by feeding their egos.

 

[Deleted member 17588]

For the life of me, I'll never understand why those representing themselves as high-rollers come on this site to argue with mechanics nor will I ever understand why the mechanics continue to entertain them by feeding their egos.

It's quite simple, really. It's the classic case of the high-rollers (I call them pompous asses) belittling others just to make themselves feel better about their own pathetic existence. Apparently they need constant validation and re-validation in order to feel good about themselves and to support their self-important image. And by dismissing the value of others, they themselves, in some sick way, can feel better about themselves in their own mind.

 

[WorldTraveler]

For someone who takes no sides with either AA mgmt or labor in their never ending blame game, I have to tell you that it is equally nauseating to read AA labor denigrate every mgmt action and then wonder why the company and labor can't get along.

Maybe part of the reason why DL and its people - union and non-union - get along is because they decided it isn't worth blaming each other while opportunities that would benefit BOTH slip away. Consequently, DL employees AND the company are benefitting from working together.

While I generally agree w/ Josh's comments, there are a few corrections that need to be made.
First, AA employees DO NOT now have higher average salaries and benefits than other network carriers. It is true that average compensation for employees of those companies that filed for BK were lower than AA during BK proceedings but that is not true now. AA, DL, and UA employees have ON AVERAGE almost identical total salary and benefits packages.
What AA DOES NOT HAVE and what those other carriers gained in BK or during their restructuring was productivity. AA's labor cost disadvantage is due directly to much less productivity than at DL and UA.
Further, CO employees ON AVERAGE did receive far less compensation (salaries and benefits) than other network carrier employees during much of the decade of the 2000s - a result of CO's bankrupticies in the prior decade which resulted in lower pension costs and lower seniority. Only now are CO's employee costs approaching the other network carriers- which I believe also explains why CO's growth has slowed and why they felt they needed to pursue a merger; being smaller and lower cost than competitors is a good position to be in. Being smaller and having higher costs is NOT a good position to be in. It's no surprise that DL - with lower costs - has been able to grow NYC with little challenge from either AA or CO, both of which are higher cost, smaller global competitors than DL.

 

[Skymess]

Perhaps AA hasn't proposed getting rid of overhaul because the status quo is the cheapest (or most desirable) of the alternatives. My WAG is that AA would be amenable to paying the line employees more as long as the TUL and AFW employees didn't go along for the ride. AA would probably like to keep the overhaul in-house to control quality, etc and would like to keep paying the base employees about the same wages they are currently getting.

Hopeful, you don't have to be "privileged executive" to realize that AA can't afford to restore the concessions, and raising AA mx wages to UPS-levels would cost more than "restore."

AA management stinks. Their time is done. They managed to gut labor contracts but did nothing to move the company toward success. No substantial new ideas and employees that hate them. That's a feat.

They've cut labor's costs but still refuse to deal with the problems of heavily overpopulated management positions. There's a manager for everything and that makes too many because nobody seems to know what is going on or have any authority to fix or do anything.There have been no significant cuts to management that actually showed yet all they talk about is labor productivity. In the flight service sector alone they could eliminate all but 5 positions at each base and the company would still run the same way because those who are there do NOTHING anyway. The flight attendant's work force is pretty self sufficient. I'm sick of hearing that WE are the bricks when I look around and see a bunch of useless duds walking around in ill fitting professional attire, and stupid looks on their faces, who can't get their heads out of their panties. That assessment pretty much holds true for every department that has airport level supervisory positions.


The biggest problem labor has is that management can keep swinging us around with impunity because the NMB has shown no desire to follow the procedures to make the Railway Labor Act a viable piece of legislation.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- Hey odie! Ever wonder who is maintaining those subway cars? Interesting scenario!----- Could this be a breach of the Contract? That is a form of transportation also, isn't it? With the AA logo no less!-----Could they be represented by the TWU? Are they Union, or non-Union? Are they bound by the RLA? If not, why not? 🙄

 

[odie01]

<_< ----- Hey odie! Ever wonder who is maintaining those subway cars? Interesting scenario!----- Could this be a breach of the Contract? That is a form of transportation also, isn't it? With the AA logo no less!-----Could they be represented by the TWU? 🙄

I would say they are represented by the twu, from all the articles in OUR twu express about subway workers, bus drivers, and other MTA workers. Don't know about a breach of the contract though, lets ask Bob, when he comes back to the board after OUR kick in the nuts tomorrow.

 

[JAFA]

I could care less about JAL and BA "big shot passenger lounges."

You can go scratch your you know what!

Well thankfully you're not in charge around here, because those top tier frequent fliers, you know that top 10% that provide over 80% of our revenue, care precisely about things like their "big shot passenger lounges." Wether you like it or not there are a few simple facts brought out in this argument. We do need to market ourselves, we do need top end lounges and product, and we have been lagging our peers in both. Oh, and lastly save the arguments for what you, me, or any of us are worth for those that pay us because whether you liek this or not our customers just aren't interested. They only care about getting the product they want the price they want and if we all had to pay AA for the priveledge of working here to make that happen I assure you our average customer would be OK with that.

 

[737823]

Well thankfully you're not in charge around here, because those top tier frequent fliers, you know that top 10% that provide over 80% of our revenue, care precisely about things like their "big shot passenger lounges." Wether you like it or not there are a few simple facts brought out in this argument. We do need to market ourselves, we do need top end lounges and product, and we have been lagging our peers in both. Oh, and lastly save the arguments for what you, me, or any of us are worth for those that pay us because whether you liek this or not our customers just aren't interested. They only care about getting the product they want the price they want and if we all had to pay AA for the priveledge of working here to make that happen I assure you our average customer would be OK with that.

Awesome post! That's exactly how I feel. I feelany employees dislike Executive Platinum and Concierge Keys folks like myself, but at the end of they day my annual revenue more than pays for the annual salary of some employees. I really believe AA can be a world class airline if they get the house in order and realign priorities.

Josh

 

[wcs]

For the life of me, I'll never understand why those representing themselves as high-rollers come on this site to argue with mechanics nor will I ever understand why the mechanics continue to entertain them by feeding their egos.

While I'm not a mechanic your statement is absolutely right.
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