This Pilot Has It Right! EOM!!

********While I do agree Goodwin appeared to be a good candidate... there was a BETTER one, John Edwardson***************

Yeah, great statement. Again, hindsight is 20-20. We all thought that we had a good candidate in Goodwin for the reasons mentioned in my post, just like we all think we have a good candidate in Tilton. Time will tell. If Tilton fails over the next 18 months or years (maybe), perhaps you can write us another post telling us how we should have gone with Candidate Y instead of Tilton?

*****Is it not true that a significant (greater than 30%) amount of United pilots have second jobs?*******

I would have to say that in my 7 years of flying narrowbody aircraft for UAL, the vast, vast majority DO NOT have second jobs outside of their flying career. Many have another bachelor's degree, a graduate degree, or something of that nature, but that's about it. I wouldn't even say 1% of the guys I have flown with have an outisde job, and senior narrowbody guys (like me) can get just as many days off as a widebody guy from what I have seen of the ORD schedules. Widebody guys? I don't know if many of them have outside employment since I don't fly with them, but I doubt the figure is anywhere near the 30% you quote. Perhaps you can tell us how you know this to be fact? Did you obtain that information in the money section of USA Today? The Times? The Journal? Perhaps from an "industry expert?" Maybe when you were chumming it up with Edwardson?


*********** Because of productivity rules. With the pilot type of salary in any other industry, you could not have a second job. Is it not true that the most senior 747-400 pilots fly less than 20 trips per year across the Pacific?*******

Again, I don't know how many trips senior 747-400 pilots fly across the Pacific. I do know they fly around 75-80 hours at least, like everyone else. That probably equates to about 3 trips a month or so, but I don't kow that as fact as I am unable to gain access to the 747-400 trips. Please quote your source as you seem to know. I do know that if they flew "double" the trips you quote (40 per year), it would probably be illegal per the FAR's. They probably didn't mention in that USA Today article that some of these trips across the Pacific are 14 hour flights each way with multiple time zone changes, and are 4 to 6 days long. Further, are you claiming that pilots are the only group on the property with productivity rules that need enhancing? Give me a break. As I posted from the beginning, pay and work rules for EVERYONE should be on the table, not just the pilots. We have $60,000/yr mechanics pushing back airplanes. We have flight attendants working one trip a month for long periods of time but still receiving full benefits. We have a management employee who walks away with multi-million dollar severance packages, automobiles, and country club memberships even though he practically managed our company into the ground. Funny how you don't mention any of that?

****Well Edwardson believe those 747-400 pilots certainly deserved 300K, even 400K salaries... if they flew at least double those trips... which isn't even all that many.*****

I really don't care what anyone thinks a 747-400 pilot should be making. And again, I assume you know little or nothing about the FAR's concerning international work rules, and you got this "20 trips a year" and "they need to be flying at least double those trips" snippet reading yet another industry expert or the USA Today. Also please expand upon this statement: "at least double those trips...which isn't even all that many....." I want you to tell us how many days away from home that 747-400 pilot would be if he flew 40, fifteen hour crossings a year and how it would be legal per the FARs. You must know if you made the statement.


******This is sheer denial. United lost its shirt during the job action of May-Aug 2000*****

NO, it's sheer denial to think that we are in bankruptcy today soley because of the Summer of 2000 as the post at the beginning of this thread implied. Many, many factors came together to put us where we are today. Is the Summer of 2000 one of those pieces? Yup, probably. Is it THE REASON we are here. Nope. Not by a longshot.


The reason why I get annoyed reading posts like yours and others is that labor is everyone's favorite punching bag when things go bad, particularly the pilot group. You too, N230UA, can finger point, complain, blame those greedy old pilots all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that we are not here today soley due to ALPA, Contract 2000, 747-400 pilots not flying 40 trips a year, or whatever other outlandish pilot bashing reason you can think of. I'll be anxiously awaiting the answers to my questions to back the "facts" that you and hommegros will provide to prove your statements.
 
N230UA:

Some egos can't accept the truth of your and other's posts...and now ALPA claims it has a leadership role. Where was that sense of leadership and responsibility when it was needed...oh yeah, that was only in the wallet.

Talk about hindsight...extremely self serving hindsight.
Geez!
 
Ahh, I see the new ALPA politically correct buzz-phrase has finally trickled down from Herndon (where I first heard this from ALPA HQ's communications office in a press release a couple of weeks ago) to the Protectors of the Faith such as 767jetz and busdriver:

"...We are giving up 'more than our fair share...'"

Of course you are. Gotta hand it to you guys... at least you are (as usual) ON POINT and ON MESSAGE.

Too bad all that is no longer relevant as this place is going down, big time, and it is all about to end with a big splat in a matter of months.

Not that the pilots (God forbid) had ANYTHING to do with it, of course... I wouldn't want to imply that lest I risk the wrath of the ever-vigilant ALPA PC Police.

 
spacewaitress-

Perhaps whilst I wait for N230UA to tell me how he knows 30% of UAL's pilots have jobs outside the industry because we have so much time off and while I wait for an expansion upon his idea that 747-400 pilots should double the amount of Pacific crossings per year because, after all, 20 crossings, "isn't even all that many," you could tell give me specific examples of how the AFA has taken a leadership role now at UAL and how they have in the past. Oh yes, I almost forgot. The AFA took that *ahem* "industry average" contract for the team!

*****Where was that sense of leadership and responsibility when it was needed...oh yeah, that was only in the wallet******

An aviator can't win on this board. I read again and again how we all make 360K a year and only work a few days a month. So we voluntarily cut our pay 29% in order to do more than our fair share to meet the first DIP "hurdle", while the other employee groups take less than half that. Then you complain that our leadership role is "only in the wallet." Don't you want us greedy overpaid pilots to make Southwest style wages (probably less when it's all said and done)? What more do you want in the name of leadership besides voting ourselves an extremely onerous paycut, more than our fair share, just for starters so OUR COMPANY can get past their first DIP hurdle? Tell me spacewaitress, how is the AFA going the extra mile to make sure we meet this FEB deadline?

Bear96-

If guys like 230UA and hommegros would post facts, and not regurgitate what the expert analyst of the month wrote on Yahoo! finance, or what some clueless journalist wrote in the Tribune, or what Joe in the lunchroom said during dinner, we'd probably have some pretty meaningful discussions on this board. I'll be the first to admit when I've done something wrong, but I'm not a punching bag and neither is the pilot group or ALPA. By the way, Bear96 and spacewaitress, your group is going to need a way to figure out how to double the amount of Pacific crossings you guys do, too, in a given year. Just ask N230UA!
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/2/2003 6:14:43 PM ualdriver wrote:

give me specific examples of how the AFA has taken a leadership role now at UAL and how they have in the past.

----------------
[/blockquote]

Oh you big baby. I've long held that the pilots have taken a leadership role with this airline but have failed to accept the responsibilities that go along with it. Others have said as much and been flamed off the board.

Now, suddenly, ALPA is professing to take a leadership role, right when for their own selfish PR purposes it suits their purpose.

That's hypocrisy, so get over it. AFA has never professed to take a leadership role, so go bark up another tree. You guys are no more leaders than anyone else is here...we're all just fighting for some sort of future for this miserable airline (And I use that word in reference to our miserable state of affairs).
 
You know spacewaitress, I'm a lover- not a fighter. And I don't like having to bash the AFA, the IAM, or ANY of my fellow co-workers on this board, including my management team but unfortuately I am forced to defend myself. Look at it from our point of view. ALPA tried to step up to the plate and do what was right with the ESOP, with ERP I, ERP II, and now this 29% paycut, and we're still getting bashed by the media, our fellow co-workers, and by people on this board posting absolute nonsense half the time about our profession. Believe it or not, many of us didn't come to United to "get rich," as history as shown us that chances are a pilot, or any airline employee for that matter, will probably be part of a failing airline at least once in his/her career and will have to start over at great cost. I don't think ALPA is taking 29% for the "PR value," and actually I really don't care if this cut has any PR value at all. I just hope we meet this first DIP hurdle and eventually emerge as a competitor. It's just extremely frustrating to be slammed over and over again when ALPA has clearly stepped up to the plate many times in the past to help "save the airline."
 
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][STRONG][FONT color=#0000ff]Dear ualdriver,[?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /][o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/STRONG][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][STRONG][FONT color=#0000ff] [o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/STRONG][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][STRONG][FONT color=#0000ff]FYI, I am a UAL IAM REMF working at SFO.[o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/STRONG][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][STRONG][FONT color=#0000ff](Shall not go into specifics – This IS the internet you know)[o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/STRONG][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][STRONG][FONT color=#0000ff]I came on board shortly after the 1985 Pilots strike.[o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/STRONG][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][STRONG][FONT color=#0000ff]I chose to stay in the back shops for Sat/Sun off [o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/STRONG][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][STRONG][FONT color=#0000ff](having worked the line in previous positions).[o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/STRONG][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][STRONG][FONT color=#0000ff] [o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/STRONG][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][STRONG][FONT color=#0000ff]Having lived this debacle has given me a little [o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/STRONG][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][STRONG][FONT color=#0000ff]insight into the UAL sitrep.[o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/STRONG][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"][STRONG][FONT color=#0000ff] [o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/STRONG][/SPAN][/SPAN][/P][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"][STRONG][FONT color=#0000ff]Regardless,[SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN]Let’s move on.[/FONT][/STRONG][/SPAN][/SPAN]
 
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/2/2003 1:46:04 PM ualdriver wrote:
[P]*******'WE' (ALPA/IAM) are in denial!!!***********[BR][BR]We are? The fact that I'm giving up voluntarily (almost!)29% of my wages for starters, more than ALPA's fair share, in order to get my company through its first financial hurdle in Chapter 11 should more than demonstrate that no one in ALPA is in denial. [BR][BR]******'WE' are 'ALL' culpable!!! (Except the AFA)************[BR][BR]Exactly what position in UAL do your work for Hommegros? There's plenty of blame for every employee group on the property, including the AFA. I'm sure that somehow we might be able to find plenty of "pork" in the AFA contract, as they will in the other unions' contracts.[BR][BR]*******Upper Management (BOD->CEO) , and ALPA more so than anyone.*******[BR][BR]OK Hommegros. I'll call your bluff. Please show me anything that proves that ALPA, or any one union for that matter, brought us to where we are today. This isn't USA Today Hommegros. Please provide the numbers and facts that back your allegations. Obviously you have them at your command to back your claims or you would not have made the above statements.[BR][BR]****Your 'DENIAL' exemplifies the stupidity of it all**********[BR][BR]Actually, your stamements exemplify the typical infighting and figerpointing that was one of the ingredients that got us to where we are today. So I guess when we're looking at the "stupidity of it all", we need to look no further than your posts.[BR][BR]******Don't call for 'SOLIDARITY' with that BS!!!***********[BR][BR]Hommegros you're obviously angry or bitter or whatever. Stop making ridiculous claims. Stop the fingerpointing. Stop saying its everyone elses' fault except yours. The sooner you do that, the sooner you'll be part of a solution. If you're so angry that you have to make baseless accusations and bash other employee groups, perhaps you should find another line of work? [BR][BR][BR][BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][FONT color=#0033cc]Dear ualdriver,[?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /][o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][FONT color=#0033cc] [o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][FONT color=#0033cc]As I said before, we are ‘ALL’ culpable. (Except the AFA)[o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][FONT color=#0033cc]Admit the part that ALPA played, and get over it!!![o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][FONT color=#0033cc]We were ‘OWNERS’ and ‘NONE’ of us acted like it!!! [o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][FONT color=#0033cc]We are fractionalized, and if we don’t quit pointing fingers, [o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][FONT color=#0033cc]we will loose sight of what we ‘SHOULD’ be doing!!![o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][FONT color=#0033cc] [o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][FONT color=#0033cc]WORKING TOGETHER!!![o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][FONT color=#0033cc] [o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][FONT color=#0033cc]There is my ‘anger’!!![o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][FONT color=#0033cc] [o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][FONT color=#0033cc][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier"]You felt a need to reply to [/SPAN][FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3]novaqt to set the ‘record’ straight (in your own mind).[SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN]If you were seeking ‘solidarity’, then what compelled you to post as you did? [/FONT][/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][FONT face="Times New Roman"][FONT size=3][FONT color=#0033cc] [o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#0033cc size=3]Get a GRIP!!![/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Courier"][FONT size=3][FONT color=#0033cc] [o:p][/o:p][/FONT][/FONT][/SPAN][/P]
 
ualdriver,I think ALPA is trying to save the members jobs and thats why they volunteered
(if you can call it that)to make the sacrifice right now.On the surface it appears to be a good
thing,but I ask you this question if the other union members of IAM or other unions dont
agree with that proposal then are you personally offended if we dont to follow your example?
We are all owners and the smallest voice here counts or should count as much as the highest paid ALPA pilot.Do we have to follow your lead or can we think for ourselves even
if its wrong?The IAM has there reasons for doing what it did and other employees that work
the line realize exactly what UAL intends to do to their jobs if we give in to them without a fight.Who knows what might happen.Im not against giving them wage relief or other small
things that could help them.My problem they want a contract until 2009,no snapback until
what would have been the normal progression of the contract we signed.They are using
this situation as well as the other airlines are of getting back everything they couldnt get
at the bargaining table.When UAL needs help we should help them recover because that
would be the right thing to do.To blindly accept that the lord of the manor (Tilton) and his
boys are going to be generous with us as soon as they are profitable and give us the "we
are family speech again" no they wont .If they want help lets help them but even Capt.Whiteford said their current demands rip the heart and soul out of your agreement.
When do we stand and fight like men or cower like cowards before the sword?
 
[P][FONT color=#6666cc][STRONG][BR]"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." [BR][BR]Same Guy Me Thinks..............[BR][BR]Take Care,[/STRONG][/FONT][/P]
 
wts-

Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with the path the IAM is currently taking by not taking the 13% up front without a definite business plan. There are some within ALPA who think we should do the same thing the IAM is doing about the up front paycuts. Personally, I think what the IAM is doing is more a political move than anything else, and might send a wrong message to the judge as to how willing the IAM is willing to co-operate overall, but if that's the path the IAM membership choses, so be it.

ALPA has a reason for doing what it is doing. If we don't take this 29% up front, Tilton is going to take our entire contract to the judge and just shred it in FEB. If we take the 29% up front to more than meet our share of the cuts required to pass the DIP FEB hurdle, it will buy us time to negotiate with the company until early May. This 29% buys us more time to value different portions of our contract and negotiate something better than practially a blank check if we refused the 29% and have a contract imposed on us by FEB 15th with little time to negotiate anything. I think it's the right thing to do for ALPA. The IAM is going to have to determine what's best for the IAM and the company.
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/30/2002 12:55:55 PM whatkindoffreshhell wrote:



How do you propose to lure more revenue pax who would be willing to pay a fair value for your product?

Revenue, revenue revenue.


----------------
[/blockquote]



It's way too late for that, in my opinion.

Too many reasons they don't want your product anymore, price being only one.
 
There are always people willing to do your job cheaper no matter what you are payed.Some guys would fly for free just for the experience and hours.

No labor group should be asked to pay for[wage concessions] the incompetent decisions of management and the amount of money wasted on B.S. programs.

Wage concessions will not save UAL.They never saved Eastern,Braniff,Pan Am,ect.ect.

All UAL labor groups could work for free and still not save the airline.22 million dollars a day loss is a sure path to destruction.

If all the weak airlines keep getting propped up by bailouts the airline industry will never recover.[Survival of the fittest]

The airline I work for could be next but they did not promise me a lifetime job when they hired me.

Last but not least,I'm sad for the UAL employees because UAL had a long history of being a good airline and I still hold 25 shares of UAL stock.[might buy a cup of coffee]I first flew UAL in 1975 and was impressed by the service and the UAL employees.
 
A very positive post. There certainly is enough blame to go round. The sooner all employees stop playing the blame game and get on with rebuilding the airline the better.

One thing is certain the business model the majors have used for decades has not worked. United's bankruptce will be the catalyst that reshapes the entire industry.

The situation at United is very serious but certainly not hopeless. Whither United survives or not will not be determined solely by the employees. But make no mistake the employees are the key to survival.

Hopefully things will work out. But if they do not, I would not want to look back and think I could have done more. Give it all you've got and good luck to all.
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/1/2003 11:33:32 PM ualdriver wrote:

*******Second....You can argue your value only when you're in a buyers market. The reality is that there are a lot of 25-27 year old pilots out there that can do my job and are willing to do it for 1/4 the cost. Do they have my qualifications? NO! Does the flying public care? NO!! John B. Public doesn't discern whether or not his guy in the polyester suit flew from aircraft carriers or in Cessna 172's. The only issue in this economy is ticket price. PERIOD!************

So what's your point? I should feel sorry for collecting my paycheck because there are guys out there who will do my job more cheaply than me? I have a relative who has been a civil engineer since he graduated from college when he was 21 or 22. His 30+ years of experience at his firm allow him to finally command a pretty good salary. It would be difficult, but I guess not impossible, for him to replace that salary if he lost his job at his curent firm. There are PLENTY of engineers that are young, inexperienced, and fresh out of college that for all practical intents and purposes, could do the job he has now and would be willing to do it for 1/4 for the amount he makes. Should my relative feel sorry for the high salary he collects for doing his job because someone will do it more cheaply? If his firms' management makes fundamental business errors that cause his firm to fail despite the fact that he does his engineering job well, should he feel sorry for collecting his larger paycheck because a young, less inexperienced engineer could do his job more cheaply? Stop apologizing for the pilot group.

That's a bad comparison. I respectfully disagree, as I was an engineer for 7 years in my former career life. Working up the ladder in the engineering field is a long process of gaining and applying knowledge, experience, and working with management, labor, and client groups, kind of like the airlines but more complicated and specialized. I've seen myself and others right out of college and there is no way they could do a 30-yr engineers' job even half as well, although they would probably start out at 1/3 to 1/2, not 1/4 of his salary. I bet less than 10 percent of engineers make six figures or more. Trust me, you are well paid my friend. Even with a 29% pay cut.

********Third....I have yet to meet a group of employees possessing a greater sense of entitlement when it comes to the work place. Read up on Adam Smith referencing market forces. We cannot transfer our skills to equitable wages elsewhere in the economy. The market and, therefore, our current situation will ultimately determine our income or our demise.***********

This is a completely arrogant statement. Let me tell you what I see in the pilot group. I have never met a group of employees who are more willing than the pilot group to YET AGAIN step up to the plate, take MORE than their fair share of the pay cuts YET AGAIN, negotiate new contracts YET AGAIN, and do what it takes to help turn this company around YET AGAIN. I, like many of the employees I HAVE MET, feel fortunate to be where we are today and realize it could be gone tomorrow and therefore are willing to lead the way out of bankruptcy.

Don't you mean to say pay RAISES instead of pay CUTS?
Everyone knows your Contract 2000 raises were passed my management in order to get your pilot group's sway to support the failed US Airways merger. We had a copy
of your scales in my commuter's release room: $199 dollars an hour for a 10 yr 737 Captain? That is LUDICROUS in today's airline environment and everyone knows it.

"Willing to lead the way out of bankruptcy"? Your union, and management and other labor groups should have had concessions and operating cost reductions in place nine months ago. The facts are that UAL has reacted at a snail's pace in trying to reduce labor and operating costs. Did I just characterize certain management and union leaders as snails? oops