To those that think you can or will vacate the coming NMB decision in court

[ThirdSeatHero]

Yes you are putting words in my mouth. Again I was not speculating on what will happen. I gave an example of what could happen. You can point all you want but If the NMB rules for the Association and no vote then your interpretation is flawed.
 
You are right it isn't just a AMFA thing.
 
Again I am not speculating on what the NMB will rule. Maybe what you submit is right but if the NMB rules the Association is certified without a vote then you are wrong and you and nobody else will be able to do anything about it except lose a lawsuit if it even goes that far.
 
In the end the NMB will not be overturned in any ruling they make.
 
Full Disclosure  I can't stand the TWU, IAM, AMFA, IBT or The Association and don't care who goes in because they all stink. But in my opinion AMFA would be the worse choice.
 
 
Actually Vortilon I know quite a bit about how AMFA screwed up. But what have I disclosed on here to be told I am clueless? What have I said on here that makes you believe that the IAM or TWU are my heros?
 
You sound clueless about the process of being certified. You say that because AMFA failed to get enough cards they were conspired against and if they had 50 more cards would be on the property. Sounds like you don't know that is just the first step. Um how about an election first? You couldn't even get enough cards and you say you would have won? LOL ok sure ya would have.
 
AMFA is a disgrace. They can't get cards in on time and then try to skirt the rules and when AMFA is ruled against their supporters say it is a big conspiracy and unfair. WAH WAH WAH

 
No, I'm not putting words in your mouth. The rules posted by the NMB are clear, your example would be a violation of those rules. How is that unclear. How is that "flawed" to point out your example and the rules as written are indeed contradictory?. Explain.
 
I never said how the NMB would rule - I never said their certification ruling would be overturned, what I DID say was if they violated their published rules there would be a challenge.
 
It seems you're being contrary just to be contrary - this for example ... you claim in your post above that ...Again I am not speculating on what the NMB will rule.
 
Yet from your post further up this very same thread you clearly state you are speculating.
 

 
...If the NMB does rule for Association without a vote I would speculate that their reasoning might be the TWU is the only organization with over 50% showing of interest and would therefore be given the certificate if the Association wasn't formed....

 
 
BTW - I'll let you in on a little secret - unless you work for the NMB or as a federal judge, or have some special insight to their decision making, then just like the rest of us here - YOU ARE SPECULATING

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

It ain't gonna happen......There is a case prescidence on this issue that is online but I'm not going to do any homework for you since you still wouldn't believe it anyway.....Association will survive till JCBA and then its up to the AFLCIO if they want to permit further actions......

 
Oh so just take your word?
 
Sorry, ....It ain't gonna happen
 
If you're gonna try to speak in absolutes then I suggest you provide your legal precedent - I didn't realize providing a link was so taxing now.

 

[mike33]

 
Oh so just take your word?
 
Sorry, ....It ain't gonna happen
 
If you're gonna try to speak in absolutes then I suggest you provide your legal precedent - I didn't realize providing a link was so taxing now.

no one is asking you to take my word. Proof will be in the pudding......Its still winter....back to Hibernation !

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

no one is asking you to take my word. Proof will be in the pudding......Its still winter....back to Hibernation !

 
LOL! - Okay Yogi - you go back to sleep

 

[mike33]

 
LOL! - Okay Yogi - you go back to sleep

Thanks

 

[Bob Owens]

 
 
Indeed, in the end, the NMB decision may not be overturned, but rest assured someone will try

And someone should try, we should not allow our rights to continue to be taken away. People should have the right to choose who represents them. When we hired on those before us chose the TWU, we inherited that decision with the right to choose another one if we did not like their performance. We collectively chose the TWU and have not collectively rescinded that decision, but that does not give the TWU the right to either force us into the IAM (as they intend to do in BOS, DCA, PHL and any station they decide in the future) or hand us over to an Association that none of us agreed to. If they want to make a change in representation it has to go to a vote. Thats a right we must preserve, the Union works for us, we are not their commodity to be horse traded as it suits them.  

 

[WeAAsles]

And someone should try, we should not allow our rights to continue to be taken away. People should have the right to choose who represents them. When we hired on those before us chose the TWU, we inherited that decision with the right to choose another one if we did not like their performance. We collectively chose the TWU and have not collectively rescinded that decision, but that does not give the TWU the right to either force us into the IAM (as they intend to do in BOS, DCA, PHL and any station they decide in the future) or hand us over to an Association that none of us agreed to. If they want to make a change in representation it has to go to a vote. Thats a right we must preserve, the Union works for us, we are not their commodity to be horse traded as it suits them.  

Bob since you are the secretary treasurer for Local 591 when it comes to this lawsuit filed against the company was the decision to utilize the memberships funds brought forth to your members for a vote?

I'm not saying that your suit does or doesn't have merit but I'm curious if you sought the authority of those members you represent to initiate it and write a check to Seeham Seeham Meltz and Peterson?

If the NMB did rule to certify the Association without a membership vote would you then again be initiating a suit against that ruling and would you ask for membership approval in using their money?

 

[mike33]

And someone should try, we should not allow our rights to continue to be taken away. People should have the right to choose who represents them. When we hired on those before us chose the TWU, we inherited that decision with the right to choose another one if we did not like their performance. We collectively chose the TWU and have not collectively rescinded that decision, but that does not give the TWU the right to either force us into the IAM (as they intend to do in BOS, DCA, PHL and any station they decide in the future) or hand us over to an Association that none of us agreed to. If they want to make a change in representation it has to go to a vote. Thats a right we must preserve, the Union works for us, we are not their commodity to be horse traded as it suits them.  

 
Bob
  Regarding choice..........Let's not forget those in all unions that voted no for " Unionization" yet are still in the unions because their choice was shadowed by a majority.  I can't see being without a union but where does that guy/gal stand as far as your explanation?

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob since you are the secretary treasurer for Local 591 when it comes to this lawsuit filed against the company was the decision to utilize the memberships funds brought forth to your members for a vote?

I'm not saying that your suit does or doesn't have merit but I'm curious if you sought the authority of those members you represent to initiate it and write a check to Seeham Seeham Meltz and Peterson?

If the NMB did rule to certify the Association without a membership vote would you then again be initiating a suit against that ruling and would you ask for membership approval in using their money?

With many lawsuits there are time constraints, the membership elected us to run the Local, if the membership is against the lawsuit they can make a motion to abandon the lawsuit or remove us through recall, but the feedback I've gotten from members is they want us to at least try and legally challenge things if there is at least a chance of success and not simply collect their money money and say that nothing can be done and allow any and everyone to run roughshod over our rights.  
 
I would favor a lawsuit to preserve our members right to vote on representation.  I do not believe that the members are a commodity for the Unions to barter, either with the company or between Unions. I believe that the members I represent feel the same way. If I am wrong then the members should avail themselves to the language of the bylaws and remove me. 

 

[Bob Owens]

 
Bob
  Regarding choice..........Let's not forget those in all unions that voted no for " Unionization" yet are still in the unions because their choice was shadowed by a majority.  I can't see being without a union but where does that guy/gal stand as far as your explanation?

"People" denotes plurality, a group, the group made a collective decision, not just a Little and Buffy.  Let the people vote, whats wrong with that? Are you against Democracy? You seem to imply its better that no choice is given to anyone because not everyone will be satisfied. 

 

[WeAAsles]

With many lawsuits there are time constraints, the membership elected us to run the Local, if the membership is against the lawsuit they can make a motion to abandon the lawsuit or remove us through recall, but the feedback I've gotten from members is they want us to at least try and legally challenge things if there is at least a chance of success and not simply collect their money money and say that nothing can be done and allow any and everyone to run roughshod over our rights.  
 
I would favor a lawsuit to preserve our members right to vote on representation.  I do not believe that the members are a commodity for the Unions to barter, either with the company or between Unions. I believe that the members I represent feel the same way. If I am wrong then the members should avail themselves to the language of the bylaws and remove me. 

Alright Bob I do understand the reality that you also couldn't exactly advertise that you were going to initiate this suit by holding membership meetings where the company would be given a heads up but how much by percentage of the memberships funds are being allocated to the law firm and what do you think could be the ramifications if the court finds it to be without merit or even frivolous? The suit does make some very serious claims against AA management. Gross negligence towards FAA mandated safety items in regards to aircraft, threatening termination and prosecution of Reps in performance of their duties.

The last letter by your President seems to ask if they can dial back the escalation through reengaging in conversation? You do understand that the company has more than likely been advised through their own legal council to not engage you now as it could be used against them in court.

Are you prepared to sue the NMB (Government) next if they do just certify the Association without a vote as some on here have proposed might happen? Are you prepared to drain all the memberships funds for these causes?

 

[JABORD]

Bob since you are the secretary treasurer for Local 591 when it comes to this lawsuit filed against the company was the decision to utilize the memberships funds brought forth to your members for a vote?

I'm not saying that your suit does or doesn't have merit but I'm curious if you sought the authority of those members you represent to initiate it and write a check to Seeham Seeham Meltz and Peterson?

If the NMB did rule to certify the Association without a membership vote would you then again be initiating a suit against that ruling and would you ask for membership approval in using their money?

 
Bad Bad Bob! Didn't give TWU members the opportunity to decide whether $$ should be spent on the lawsuit? A TWU official not providing membership input on expenditures? Oh, that's right. The TWU Constitution that governs our leadership doesn't provide for it! Thanks for the reminder as to why we need get rid of this scumbag organization.
 
And before you conspiracy nutjobs can run amuck on this one:
Local591 President - Gary Peterson
Seham,Seham, Meltz & Petersen
...putz

 

[Bob Owens]

Alright Bob I do understand the reality that you also couldn't exactly advertise that you were going to initiate this suit by holding membership meetings where the company would be given a heads up but how much by percentage of the memberships funds are being allocated to the law firm and what do you think could be the ramifications if the court finds it to be without merit or even frivolous? The suit does make some very serious claims against AA management. Gross negligence towards FAA mandated safety items in regards to aircraft, threatening termination and prosecution of Reps in performance of their duties.

The last letter by your President seems to ask if they can dial back the escalation through reengaging in conversation? You do understand that the company has more than likely been advised through their own legal council to not engage you now as it could be used against them in court.

Are you prepared to sue the NMB (Government) next if they do just certify the Association without a vote as some on here have proposed might happen? Are you prepared to drain all the memberships funds for these causes?

Those questions can be answered by logging on to the Local website (assuming you are a member)  and reading the minutes from the EB Meetings, which along with the Financial Report are posted online. 
 
I believe we are the only Local that does that. In most Locals you can only access that info by going to the Hall. Yes there is a lag time but it does ensure accountability to the members without giving the company a heads up. 
 
As far as the funds of the Local, aren't they there to be used in protecting the members interests? If we are changing Collective Bargaining Agents don't you believe the members should have the right to vote on it?  Unionism is about taking many workers and putting them in one Union, thats not what this Association is about, its about two organizations splitting the baby because neither cares about the babys interests, its about making sure the IAM and TWU keep the same percentage of members at the combined carrier, not even the same members, (individual members will be horse traded between them)  just the same percentage, as they had when American was American and USAir. This plan is not about us or our interests, its about Little and Buffys interests. Its despicable. One needs to back away, and the balance shows that the IAM is the one that comes up short. 

 

[john john]

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/06/american_airlines_vs_communications_workers_of_america_the_obscure_texas_court_case_that_spells_the_real_end_for_american_unions_.html

Got to love the Texas courts and their political agenda
As a policy matter, the whole story illustrates how fundamentally bleak the outlook for American unions is. Political polarization has given Republicans a clear-cut partisan interest in doing whatever they can to block unionization efforts, completely apart from questions of ideology and business interests. And the basic tactic of changing rules midstream and applying them retroactively can be used in an endless number of permutations to block major organizing efforts. The CWA and the organizing workers will, of course, appeal the decision. But the conservative majority on the Supreme Court proved last week that it’s no more sympathetic to the union cause than the rest of the American right. The result is a set of political and legal situations in which it’s difficult to see how any major private-sector organizing battle can be won unless the Democratic Party has a sudden change of heart and starts fighting equally aggressively on the other side of these issues.

 

[WeAAsles]

Those questions can be answered by logging on to the Local website (assuming you are a member)  and reading the minutes from the EB Meetings, which along with the Financial Report are posted online. 
 
I believe we are the only Local that does that. In most Locals you can only access that info by going to the Hall. Yes there is a lag time but it does ensure accountability to the members without giving the company a heads up. 
 
As far as the funds of the Local, aren't they there to be used in protecting the members interests? If we are changing Collective Bargaining Agents don't you believe the members should have the right to vote on it?  Unionism is about taking many workers and putting them in one Union, thats not what this Association is about, its about two organizations splitting the baby because neither cares about the babys interests, its about making sure the IAM and TWU keep the same percentage of members at the combined carrier, not even the same members, (individual members will be horse traded between them)  just the same percentage, as they had when American was American and USAir. This plan is not about us or our interests, its about Little and Buffys interests. Its despicable. One needs to back away, and the balance shows that the IAM is the one that comes up short. 

It doesn't look like you're going to get your wish Bob. Full steam ahead it seems.


 

The company may believe that they can play off one union against the other during negotiations. They would be incorrect. If there have been any bumps in the road during the building process of our new Association, those issues are largely behind us. Any unresolved issues or new issues as yet unforeseen will be addressed through the arbitration process outlined in the alliance agreement.
 
The Association is prepared to proceed to negotiations as soon as prudently possible after NMB certification. We will not let anything prevent us from delivering the industry’s premier contracts for our members. That is our goal, and our pledge. We trust that you will stand with the Association in a powerful united front to secure what is rightfully ours.
In solidarity,
 
Harry Lombardo                                                       Sito Pantoja
TWU International President                       IAM General Vice President

 
- See more at: http://www.usaamerger.com/#sthash.YEAE22ds.JRml3T9M.dpuf