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"trouble With The Feds" ?

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I was told today, that UA very soon, will fall "below" the restrictions set by the feds/BK-11. (This coming on the heels of having to go to the feds for relief just a short time ago)

I'm NOT wishing UA further bad luck, just checking out a rumor.

With the friggin' fuel prices the way they are, it would be NO surprise if UA was in further difficulty.

comments ??

NH/BB's
 
UAL management has said that they may have difficulties meeting DIP covenants. This is a matter for the DIP financiers, not the government. I would expect the financiers to allow UAL to violate those covenants at an interest rate penalty.
 
The feds have nothing to do with UAL, regarding finances. There was no ATSB loan so no influence/say in our matters. USAirways on the other hand has issues with the ATSB


Now the BK judge may have some issues with us but thats what BK-11 is for.

DC
 
iflyjetz, and UALDC737.

Thanx for the clarification.

Again, I wish you guys NO ILL WILL !!!!!!!!!

Good luck !!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's
 
iflyjetz said:
UAL management has said that they may have difficulties meeting DIP covenants. This is a matter for the DIP financiers, not the government. I would expect the financiers to allow UAL to violate those covenants at an interest rate penalty.
[post="196507"][/post]​
...and hefty demands for concessions from employees.
 
NHBB, you were just repeating a rumor. No harm, no foul.

Spacewaitress, the entire industry is falling apart. Rapidly. Concessions suck, no question about it. But the alternative is having the company close its doors. UAL is still very sick and on life support.
I have no idea if the financiers will demand employee wage concessions or not; I haven't looked at the DIP documents.

It is unfortunate that capacity still needs to be removed from the system when we've got record loads, but it looks like that's what is required to firm up yields.
 
iflyjetz said:
It is unfortunate that capacity still needs to be removed from the system when we've got record loads, but it looks like that's what is required to firm up yields.
[post="196940"][/post]​
jetz, I usually agree with your analysis, but I think you've got this one wrong. While it may be possible to "firm up yields" in the short run, they will not go up in the long run. WN and B6 will see to that. So while UA management is doing the prudent short term thing by readjusting its ASMs to better match demand and yield, I don't think that this will lead to profitability. UA needs to find a cost structure that can support its current yields rather than hope that long term yields will rise. (Of course they should try to increase yields any way possible, e.g., p.s., but I think that yields will continue to deteriorate for the next few years.) That is what worries me about UA. Ending the pensions will help, but I'm not sure that's enough.

I'm sure UA will survive in some form. I just hope that it is closer to the current form and they UA doesn't shrink its way to become another PanAm.
 
TechBoy, you're absolutely correct; I need to start adjusting to the paradigm shift that is occurring in the industry.
Previously, the barriers to entry, capital required and the risk of failure were so great that you didn't see many startups survive.
Today, you see someone like JBLU be practically given the keys to JFK (lowered barrier to entry), raising several hundred mil in seed capital is easy (Soros wouldn't have lost any sleep if he lost every dime invested in JBLU), startups deliver a good product, and their cost structure is low enough that they make money while the majors lose money.

Today's pilot is much like the blacksmith of the 1920s. The end is in sight for this being a great profession. Every single labor group in the airline industry will see their paychecks fail to keep up with inflation for quite some time.

TechBoy, thanks for phrasing it in the way you did; it helped me see the light. I have been wrong about this and need to start accepting future realities. I stand (er, sit) corrected.


The following is an edit to this post:
TechBoy, as far as pilot salaries go, the more I think about it, the more I realize that the golden days of being a pilot are over (salary-wise). The job has become less difficult due to automation, the age 60 rule will be repealed within the decade, and it is still considered to be a glamorous job. For those reasons, I do not expect there to be a pilot shortage anytime soon. There will be pilots at regionals making peanuts who will be more than happy to fly an airbus for a little less than the bottom feeder airbus airline, because it will be more money than they're getting to fly a glass cockpit RJ. The transition between the two aircraft is probably not that huge.
I would not be surprised to see airbus/737 captains at all airlines making less than 6 figures within the next ten years. It will truly be a race to the bottom. There will always be more than a few pilots who are addicted to burning kerosene and will 'work for food.' They'll just be working for foodstamp wages on bigger aircraft.
I can't speak about FA, CSR, and bag smasher salaries, but I'd expect mechanic salaries to go the way of the pilot salary.
 
jetz, you are a wise man. I am the epitome of your problem. Five years ago, I flew IAD-SFO on B fares for $1800. Now, I fly IAD-OAK on S fares for $300. Five years ago, I flew IAD-LHR/BRU/CDG on C fares for $5000. Now, I fly to Europe on cheap coach fares for $500-600. (More and more companies are following mine and forbid business class fares.) While there will always be a market for high fare customers, it will continue to shrink with the growth of the LCCs. When you sell a commodity, the margins naturally shrink. Look at the PC market. For the first dozen years when design, functionality and reliability were different among manufacturers, margins were above 40% as customers focused on quality. But as Intel made all machine similar, the PC became a commodity and margins fell to 25% and then further to 16-18%. And the company that was most efficient (Dell) became the market leader and continues to gain market share. The LCCs will continue to do this to the legacies until they become more efficient or disappear.

As for the pilot profession, I don't think it's as bleak as you describe. Certainly pilot wages will come down to earth. I think a large part of the problem was unrealistic expectations that were created by ALPA and the unnatural way in which pilot compensation was structured. I think you will agree that pilot wages in general got out of hand at the end of the 90s boom as the unions followed human nature and grabbed what they could. But the seniority system also created problems. The senior pilots were paid dramatically more than the junior, clearly out of proportion to their increased value due to increased experience. That was fine with the junior guys as long as they got to get the senior wages later (and the huge pensions that came with it). Meanwhile, the express pilots got peanuts. Fundamentally, all were doing the same job with similar skills, yet wages were all over the place. Such a system can only be maintained through monopoly powers, such as unionization (or AMA limits on medical school accreditation in the case of doctors, who have a strangely similar system). Over time, pilot wages will average out in the $100,000 range. Ridiculously high widebody rates will disappear (unless ALPA tries to continue the insanity) and RJ rates will increase as fewer people enter the profession. (Remember that lots of these guys become pilots on the dream of being a $250,000 777 captain, working 15 days a month, with a huge pension. As those things disappear, the glamour will tarnish.) It will never be what it was, but it won't be a bad job either.

I think that one of the hardest things that my post boomer generation will have to deal with is early career peaks. In my own case, I've put together a strong position in a successful company and I am very well paid. In fact, some might argue, overpaid. But I have probably reached by peak earnings at 38. If I make it into senior management, I will make more, but the odds are against it. So for the next 20+ years of my career, I will make essentially what I do now. Financially, it's a pretty good deal as I make quite a bit. But psychologically, it's tougher as one must work harder just to stay in the same place. As the workplace becomes more market oriented, this will become the norm across most industries. The airline industry will be no different.
 

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