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TWU Chapter 11 - AA 1113 Filing

Your cuts were not as severe under your "voluntary" concessions in 2003, in the second bankruptcy we lost 46% of the mtc workforce.

You really have no idea, every bankruptcy in airline industry for the past 10 years had very similar outcomes, pay cuts, benefit cuts, pension terminations, jobs lost, scope lost.

Believe what you want, I was on the NC, lived it twice (three rounds of concessions in two chapter 11 cases), sat in the courtroom during the hearings, spent three months in DC trying to hammer out a new deal.

The company has all the power and the cards in this process, you dont, and you will learn what I am telling you is what is going to happen.

The information on US, DL, NW and UA's bankruptcies are out there, go look and educate yourself so you know whats in store for you.

I have no reason to misinform and mislead you, just trying to give you the perspective of someone that has lived it twice and then some.
 
Your cuts were not as severe under your "voluntary" concessions in 2003, in the second bankruptcy we lost 46% of the mtc workforce.

You really have no idea, every bankruptcy in airline industry for the past 10 years had very similar outcomes, pay cuts, benefit cuts, pension terminations, jobs lost, scope lost.

Believe what you want, I was on the NC, lived it twice (three rounds of concessions in two chapter 11 cases), sat in the courtroom during the hearings, spent three months in DC trying to hammer out a new deal.

The company has all the power and the cards in this process, you dont, and you will learn what I am telling you is what is going to happen.

The information on US, DL, NW and UA's bankruptcies are out there, go look and educate yourself so you know whats in store for you.

I have no reason to misinform and mislead you, just trying to give you the perspective of someone that has lived it twice and then some.
Everyone is an expert!! Nobody knows what AA is going to go after...... Time will tell. Im sure it's not going to be a walk in the park but I'm sure the cuts in 2003 will have some merit. JMO
 
Your cuts were not as severe under your "voluntary" concessions in 2003, in the second bankruptcy we lost 46% of the mtc workforce.

You really have no idea, every bankruptcy in airline industry for the past 10 years had very similar outcomes, pay cuts, benefit cuts, pension terminations, jobs lost, scope lost.

Believe what you want, I was on the NC, lived it twice (three rounds of concessions in two chapter 11 cases), sat in the courtroom during the hearings, spent three months in DC trying to hammer out a new deal.

The company has all the power and the cards in this process, you dont, and you will learn what I am telling you is what is going to happen.

The information on US, DL, NW and UA's bankruptcies are out there, go look and educate yourself so you know whats in store for you.

I have no reason to misinform and mislead you, just trying to give you the perspective of someone that has lived it twice and then some.


Just out of curiosity, how many Bankruptcies have you been through where the carrier had $4+ biilion in cash going in and did not have a need for or even request Debtor In Possesion Financing?

I don'thave any grand illusions that is going to be painless, but I think your experience my not apply to this situation as much as you claim.

This filing appears to be different than most even from the timing that it took place.

Time will tell, but as with most things AA does, there will be a new standard set in this event, and in the end, unlike every circumstance you have been through, they intend to stand alone and not be merged.

D.I.P. Financing is a huge issue, and not having that hanging over their heads allows more internal control than what you have been through.

I am willing to read your gloom and doom though. And time will tell where we are headed.
 
maark767 you are correct the only thing for sure is that the new regime is really not interested in running anything. The Romano's of the world who ran things to look good ie a run for mayor or for the sake of power are gone. The new regime is only interested in that ONE paycheck at the end. Look at Continentals program right before they merged with United that would be my guess. Prestofillipi or whatever his name is in DFW made it clear hes only here for the short term.
 
So you have $4 billion in cash on hand, how much is restricted?

So with $4 billion and $11 billion in debt, your still $7 billion to the negative and in chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, you have no idea what is gonna happen, you are burying your head in the sand, I am trying to educate you on what your in for, but you seem to want to learn the hard way.

You seem to be very naive on the process and whats going to transpire.

Bottom line is your in bankruptcy, the Judge, the executives and the creditor's committee is calling the shots.

Everything the company does has to be approved by both.

You have no power in the process, AA will get what they want and how they want it.

Bottom line is your company with whatever money they have are still in Chapter 11.

Keep believing and spinning it how you want, no employee groups is coming out of the process without pain and lots of losses.

You have no idea what you are in for, no power, no clout, just a judge that gives a company what they seek.

I lived it, have you?

Prestifilipo was at US during our last bankruptcy, he is a liar and dont trust him, oh by the way he is a king of outsourcing,
he over saw it at CO, COEX, and US, funny how our seat shop ended up being closed and the work farmed out to a company that is friend owned.

Your 2003 cuts mean nothing, we at US took concessions in September of 2002, ratified them and by December US was threatening chapter 7 unless all employee groups gave more, so in January of 2003 we took more concessions, gee if we took concessions three months prior why did we gave to give more?

And less than two years after we were in bankruptcy once again, face with more cuts, and what we gave in 2002 and 2003 had no bearing on the cuts we were forced to take in 2005.

Like I said, you all have no clue what your in store for, but keep spinning it cause when reality hits your gonna be screwed.

You all need to open your eyes and educate yourself.
 
AAccording to some, we are going to get a "haircut", and to some, we are going to "lose everything", while there are still some who believe they will somehow "escape without damage".

What category one might fall into depends on Title group, station, seniority, etc.


Given AA's habit of overreaching, I would expect substantial work rule changes,outsourcing of smaller stations,termination of the pension (There is no point in filing for chapter 11 if they continue to have a pension obligation of any kind hanging over their head.),dramatic increases in healthcare costs for active employees and retirees and at a minimum,a 15% cut in pay.This is their opportunity to put the hammer onto labor, they will not let it pass.I expect the worst so when it happens I'm not surprised.

Bingo.




The last decades airline bankruptcies set a lot of precedent and I don't think the creditors, judge or AA want the employees that remain to be angry..

They don't -and won't- give a sh*t how you all feel when the dust settles; trust me on this one.
 
So you have $4 billion in cash on hand, how much is restricted?

snip

Like I said, you all have no clue what your in store for, but keep spinning it cause when reality hits your gonna be screwed.

You all need to open your eyes and educate yourself.

You failed to answer the simple question.
How many BK's that make you an expert did the carrier not obtain Debtor In Posssion financing ?

And do you know that this matters?

I know that I have no power, but I have no reason to follow you, and your glass is half empty, and mine is half full.
So What?
 
So you have $4 billion in cash on hand, how much is restricted?

So with $4 billion and $11 billion in debt, your still $7 billion to the negative and in chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, you have no idea what is gonna happen, you are burying your head in the sand, I am trying to educate you on what your in for, but you seem to want to learn the hard way.

You seem to be very naive on the process and whats going to transpire.

Bottom line is your in bankruptcy, the Judge, the executives and the creditor's committee is calling the shots.

Everything the company does has to be approved by both.

You have no power in the process, AA will get what they want and how they want it.

Bottom line is your company with whatever money they have are still in Chapter 11.

Keep believing and spinning it how you want, no employee groups is coming out of the process without pain and lots of losses.

You have no idea what you are in for, no power, no clout, just a judge that gives a company what they seek.

I lived it, have you?

Prestifilipo was at US during our last bankruptcy, he is a liar and dont trust him, oh by the way he is a king of outsourcing,
he over saw it at CO, COEX, and US, funny how our seat shop ended up being closed and the work farmed out to a company that is friend owned.

Your 2003 cuts mean nothing, we at US took concessions in September of 2002, ratified them and by December US was threatening chapter 7 unless all employee groups gave more, so in January of 2003 we took more concessions, gee if we took concessions three months prior why did we gave to give more?

And less than two years after we were in bankruptcy once again, face with more cuts, and what we gave in 2002 and 2003 had no bearing on the cuts we were forced to take in 2005.

Like I said, you all have no clue what your in store for, but keep spinning it cause when reality hits your gonna be screwed.

You all need to open your eyes and educate yourself.

Do you have pom poms that you wave as you're cheering our demise on? :blink:
 
One, the second US bankruptcy did not have DIP financing.

How many bankruptcies in the airline industry have you been through and part of the negotiating committee?

Bottom line is AA's bankruptcy is the same as the rest, you owe more than you have and the employees, and the creditors are going to pay for it.

Its a simple concept, I have been part of three rounds of concessions in two bankruptcy cases, have you?

I am not cheering on anyone's demise, I am trying to educate people on whats in store.

You all have the idea that your gonna come out fine with raises in Chapter 11, I am preparing you for the reality of what is most likely going to happen.

And we used the same attorneys and firm, Sharon Levine is a fine attorney and take my advice and listen to her, not your buddies who are break room bankruptcy attorneys.

There will be cuts and losses and you all will suffer the results, but most of you seem to believe nothing is going to happen and its business as usual.
 
So you have $4 billion in cash on hand, how much is restricted?

So with $4 billion and $11 billion in debt, your still $7 billion to the negative and in chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, you have no idea what is gonna happen, you are burying your head in the sand, I am trying to educate you on what your in for, but you seem to want to learn the hard way.

You seem to be very naive on the process and whats going to transpire.

Bottom line is your in bankruptcy, the Judge, the executives and the creditor's committee is calling the shots.

Everything the company does has to be approved by both.

You have no power in the process, AA will get what they want and how they want it.

Bottom line is your company with whatever money they have are still in Chapter 11.

Keep believing and spinning it how you want, no employee groups is coming out of the process without pain and lots of losses.

You have no idea what you are in for, no power, no clout, just a judge that gives a company what they seek.

I lived it, have you?

Prestifilipo was at US during our last bankruptcy, he is a liar and dont trust him, oh by the way he is a king of outsourcing,
he over saw it at CO, COEX, and US, funny how our seat shop ended up being closed and the work farmed out to a company that is friend owned.

Your 2003 cuts mean nothing, we at US took concessions in September of 2002, ratified them and by December US was threatening chapter 7 unless all employee groups gave more, so in January of 2003 we took more concessions, gee if we took concessions three months prior why did we gave to give more?

And less than two years after we were in bankruptcy once again, face with more cuts, and what we gave in 2002 and 2003 had no bearing on the cuts we were forced to take in 2005.

Like I said, you all have no clue what your in store for, but keep spinning it cause when reality hits your gonna be screwed.

You all need to open your eyes and educate yourself.


So, let me get this straight. AA AMTs are currently the lowest paid in the industry - save for US - currently in negotiations. Now we should go lower? Ok We currently enjoy 5 whole holidays at time and a half - what do you think? - how about two holidays now - on straight time! Our first two days of sick pay are at half pay - why not make the first week at half pay? Good god, I could go on and on. We get the idea; however, our pay and benefits were never the issue. The almighty DB Pension was. We hear you, and after the spanking we took in 03, we know anything is possible. It would be a joke to ask for any more from us......
 
AMR Corp. (AMR)’s $4.1 billion in cash, the most ever for a U.S. carrier entering bankruptcy, may help the parent of American Airlines preserve its independence.

Filing for Chapter 11 with that much in cash and short-term investments strengthened the third-largest U.S. airline company’s control over its fate, unlike peers that restructured in the last decade, said James M. Higgins, an analyst at New York-based Ticonderoga Securities LLC.

“Anytime you have your hand out to someone else for something, you lose some power,” Higgins said in an interview. “By doing it this way and by doing it now, they are going to retain more power over the process.”

Companies in Chapter 11 protection usually need so-called debtor-in-possession financing from sources that can force a sale or limit how the money is spent. Tapping that funding would weaken AMR against an acquirer such as US Airways Group Inc. (LCC), which tried to buy Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL) in bankruptcy in 2006, said Hunter Keay, a Wolfe Trahan & Co. analyst in New York.

Banks representing bondholders and American’s three largest unions were named today to the committee of unsecured creditors in AMR’s bankruptcy case. The next bankruptcy hearing is set for Dec. 13.

Enough Cash

AMR expects to have enough cash to fund operations during its entire time in bankruptcy, and outside financing is “neither considered necessary nor anticipated,” according to a statement after the Fort Worth, Texas-based company sought court protection on Nov. 29.

Cash and short-term investments under the Chapter 11 filing were more than twice the $1.5 billion for Delta and Northwest Airlines Corp. when they sought court protection in 2005. US Airways Group had $1.45 billion in 2004, and United Airlines (UAL) parent UAL Corp. had $800 million in 2002.

AMR’s total also was about 17 percent of trailing 12-month revenue, compared with 10 percent to 13 percent for other U.S. airlines when they filed bankruptcy, Keay and Philip Baggaley, a Standard & Poor’s debt analyst in New York, said in interviews.

US Airways, the fifth-largest U.S. airline, has been cited by analysts as the most likely suitor for AMR, and the Tempe, Arizona-based company’s shares surged 20 percent in the week that ended Dec. 2, the biggest such gain since May 28, 2010. A spokesman, Todd Lehmacher, declined to comment.

“Speculation on any possible mergers under our Chapter 11 reorganization are just that,” said Sean Collins, an American spokesman. “We have no comment on such speculation.”

‘Anything Can Happen’

Chief Executive Officer Tom Horton, who was president until succeeding Gerard Arpey after AMR’s filing, wouldn’t comment when asked about US Airways on a Nov. 29 conference call with reporters.

“Anything can happen,” Horton said of a possible takeover attempt. “It’s impossible to speculate. Our objective is to be laser focused on changes we need to make to make this company successful for the long term.”

US Airways is the product of a 2005 merger of America West Holdings Corp. and the old US Airways when that carrier was in Chapter 11. American sat out the industry consolidation that saw Delta buy Northwest in 2008 once those carriers left bankruptcy, and United merge with Continental Airlines Inc. in 2010.

Upper Hand

The threat of an attempted takeover would rise if AMR seeks DIP financing because the lender could “dictate what is happening,” said Wolfe Trahan’s Keay. He sees even odds on whether American will need such financing during its time in court protection.

Jeff Straebler, an independent aviation analyst in Stamford, Connecticut, said he “fully expects” US Airways will try to take over American while it’s in bankruptcy.

“AMR’s management has turned aside such speculation in the past,” S&P’s Baggaley said in a Dec. 2 report. “If AMR can control its own fate in this regard, we do not see bankruptcy changing its view.”

AMR will trim first-half 2012 seating capacity, including a 2 percent reduction in January, Daniel McKenzie, a Rodman & Renshaw analyst in Chicago, said yesterday in a report. The cuts, chiefly in Dallas, Chicago and Los Angeles, were loaded into American’s flight schedule over the weekend, McKenzie said.

Tim Smith, an American spokesman, said the steps were planned before AMR’s bankruptcy filing.

Cash Sources

The airline’s likeliest sources for more cash in Chapter 11 would be companies with which it already has a relationship, said Will Randow, an analyst at Citigroup Inc. (C) in New York. American used about $1 billion cash in the third quarter and about $500 million since then, Randow said, making him skeptical of the airline’s assertions of having sufficient cash.

Citigroup, the credit-card partner for American’s AAdvantage loyalty program, would be “highly likely” to help with financing if AMR asks, Straebler said. New York-based Citigroup helped American raise $1 billion in 2009 through the advance purchase of frequent-flier miles.

A Citigroup spokeswoman, Danielle Romero-Apsilos, declined to comment. Citibank is AMR’s fourth-biggest secured creditor, owed $890.2 million by the company, according to bankruptcy documents.

AMR could use assets including flight slots and gates at certain U.S. airports, spare parts and engines, ground support equipment and its corporate headquarters as collateral, Straebler said.

The timing of the filing surprised analysts such as S&P’s Baggaley, who had said AMR’s cash consumption might force the company into Chapter 11 in 2012, not this year.

Israel Shaked, a professor at Boston University School of Management whose Michel-Shaked Group consulting firm advised Delta during its bankruptcy, said AMR “did the right thing” in going to court last week.

“Filing was very smart because they still sit on $4 billion in cash,” Shaked said. “Some other airlines waited way too long.”
 
One, the second US bankruptcy did not have DIP financing.

How many bankruptcies in the airline industry have you been through and part of the negotiating committee?

Bottom line is AA's bankruptcy is the same as the rest, you owe more than you have and the employees, and the creditors are going to pay for it.

Its a simple concept, I have been part of three rounds of concessions in two bankruptcy cases, have you?

I am not cheering on anyone's demise, I am trying to educate people on whats in store.

You all have the idea that your gonna come out fine with raises in Chapter 11, I am preparing you for the reality of what is most likely going to happen.

And we used the same attorneys and firm, Sharon Levine is a fine attorney and take my advice and listen to her, not your buddies who are break room bankruptcy attorneys.

There will be cuts and losses and you all will suffer the results, but most of you seem to believe nothing is going to happen and its business as usual.

I open this thread and then list a very huge and expensive list of potential concessions that could take place. In fact I would call them severe in nature.

And you accuse me of believing that nothing is going to happen.

I believe you are so hung up on yourself and your experience that you actually fail to read the postings in a thread and instead just pound your chest about how great and experienced you are at employee shaft methods.

You are NOTHING in this Bankruptcy, and actually have less power than me which is zero.
 
So, let me get this straight. AA AMTs are currently the lowest paid in the industry - save for US - currently in negotiations. Now we should go lower? Ok We currently enjoy 5 whole holidays at time and a half - what do you think? - how about two holidays now - on straight time! Our first two days of sick pay are at half pay - why not make the first week at half pay? Good god, I could go on and on. We get the idea; however, our pay and benefits were never the issue. The almighty DB Pension was. We hear you, and after the spanking we took in 03, we know anything is possible. It would be a joke to ask for any more from us......
Do you not understand that they want to cut labor costs and they will achieve it by pay, benefit and work rule cuts to lower there costs lower than the major airlines?

And your going to suffer, its reality.

And in the first bankruptcy we didnt lose our pension and met their ask, but in the second one the pension was terminated.

You are blinded to reality, your gonna get cuts that are going to be painful, thats the truth, just trying to warn you, but you guys know it all, you lived it and your only fixing planes cause you dont want to practice law, is that the case?
 

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