U.S. Airline Industry Headed Toward 'Catastrophe' at Current Oil Prices

[1AA]

Several Airlines Likely to Fail; Affordable, Frequent Air Travel and Jobs at Risk

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080613/nef011.html?.v=59

Read the full report: http://businesstravelcoalition.com/campaig...isis_report.pdf

 

[aapitbull]

Several Airlines Likely to Fail; Affordable, Frequent Air Travel and Jobs at Risk

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080613/nef011.html?.v=59

Read the full report: http://businesstravelcoalition.com/campaig...isis_report.pdf

Good Info! The way I see it is in 2001 they cried wolf to get concessions above and beyond what they trully needed now when death stands at their door no ones got any stomach for more.

LOOK AT THIS QUOTE FROM GOOSE

"I will agree, though, I'll do what necessary also except I've taken the attitude "You First" towards those in the ozone layer. I have no intent of tolerating the corporate and union lies ever again. If that attitude sends the company (and me) into a financial tailspin, so be it."

If current fuel prices destroys AA or any of the others they will have only reeped what they sowed by the way Goose congrats you have reached the point all us awful AMFA supporting Mechanics were at in 2001 if we have to go work on Cars or HVAC or Weld no more help for the ROBBER BARRONS!!!!!

 

[The Goose]

Good Info! The way I see it is in 2001 they cried wolf to get concessions above and beyond what they trully needed now when death stands at their door no ones got any stomach for more.

LOOK AT THIS QUOTE FROM GOOSE

"I will agree, though, I'll do what necessary also except I've taken the attitude "You First" towards those in the ozone layer. I have no intent of tolerating the corporate and union lies ever again. If that attitude sends the company (and me) into a financial tailspin, so be it."

If current fuel prices destroys AA or any of the others they will have only reeped what they sowed by the way Goose congrats you have reached the point all us awful AMFA supporting Mechanics were at in 2001 if we have to go work on Cars or HVAC or Weld no more help for the ROBBER BARRONS!!!!!

I do believe the aapitbull tried to take a bite of my posterior. I believe you're slightly mistaken.

Having a belly full of the company shenanigans and the TWU's supposed "representation" is one thing; having not supported AMFA is quite another. On paper, AMFA was great, but like any other representation out there, changed its tune considerably when the money started drying up.

The NWA strike was ended with worse terms than was originally given to those mechs, and after the AMFA lost a representational election at United to the Teamsters, its National began a drive to unionize the scabs that replaced AMFA's membership at NWA - just start paying dues and all is forgiven, no different than the dues collection agency AKA the TWU; damn the principals at stake, we need the money!

Still your kind of representation? Are you proud of that?

Count me out - I'd rather be without any representation than be associated with an organization that embraces its enemies. We already have that.

 

[Bob Owens]

Count me out - I'd rather be without any representation than be associated with an organization that embraces its enemies. We already have that.

Like Japan, Germany etc?Its either abandon those who struck and went back after the settlement or accept them, warts and all. I dont like it either but thats the way it is under the RLA.

Granted AMFA saw a big setback at NWA and UAL but thats what can happen when you change the status quo, and they did. To this day mechanics benifit from AMFA. If not for AMFA we would be as bad off as all the FSCs and stock clerks who never saw the AMFA created standard of $35 or the nearly $10/hr increase in pay that we did. Instead of being at $30/hr we would be at or below $25, our hourly rate is still higher than it was prior to the 2001 contract, other work groups are actually making less than prior to 2001 and thats because none of them had the option to go for a different union.

 

[eolesen]

our hourly rate is still higher than it was prior to the 2001 contract

There's a quote to remember....

 

[MCI transplant]

There's a quote to remember....

<_< ------- Yes, but life goes on! This isn't 2001! And time appears to accelerate as you get older! There is a distinct danger that our compensation level may get bogged down in that time frame, while everyone else, and everything else, moves on! That's what happened to TWA! Please! Don't let it happen to you!

 

[aapitbull]

I do believe the aapitbull tried to take a bite of my posterior. I believe you're slightly mistaken.

Having a belly full of the company shenanigans and the TWU's supposed "representation" is one thing; having not supported AMFA is quite another. On paper, AMFA was great, but like any other representation out there, changed its tune considerably when the money started drying up.

The NWA strike was ended with worse terms than was originally given to those mechs, and after the AMFA lost a representational election at United to the Teamsters, its National began a drive to unionize the scabs that replaced AMFA's membership at NWA - just start paying dues and all is forgiven, no different than the dues collection agency AKA the TWU; damn the principals at stake, we need the money!

Still your kind of representation? Are you proud of that?

Count me out - I'd rather be without any representation than be associated with an organization that embraces its enemies. We already have that.

This is why, although I have been a member here for a long time I don't post much. My quote was not intended to be a ding on you for not supporting Amfa. you or anyone else are free to choose. the point only is that we who did support were at the same level of frustration you descrilbed.

As far as AMFA goes the constitution at AMFA is still my kind of representation the people run the union now that said they have there share of problems but one is not secret meetings and deals behind their members back. However I am not currently pushing for any change in unions I like many others have had my turn in the barrel. since you have joined us at the level of frustration outlined in your post maybe you could find a avenue of change better than the one I offered.

P.S. Please remember I am not trying to take a shot at you.

 

[aapitbull]

There's a quote to remember....

Although stil higher than 2001 nothing compared to the top mangement at this airline! on a percentage basis of course

 

[The Goose]

This is why, although I have been a member here for a long time I don't post much. My quote was not intended to be a ding on you for not supporting Amfa. you or anyone else are free to choose. the point only is that we who did support were at the same level of frustration you descrilbed.

As far as AMFA goes the constitution at AMFA is still my kind of representation the people run the union now that said they have there share of problems but one is not secret meetings and deals behind their members back. However I am not currently pushing for any change in unions I like many others have had my turn in the barrel. since you have joined us at the level of frustration outlined in your post maybe you could find a avenue of change better than the one I offered.

P.S. Please remember I am not trying to take a shot at you.

No problem - I stand corrected.

 

[AMFAMAN]

No problem - I stand corrected.

Yeah, I the way I read it, aapitbull was actually giving you an official welcome to the perpetually disgruntled club.

BTW...been enjoying your posts alot as of late.

 

[frontline]

Don't think the headline could be any more obvious! It is a whole new ball game now and hope the turds at TWU can at least get me something to consider and vote on before we all get laid off.

 

[eolesen]

John Conley realized it, spoke the truth, and got whacked for seeing the forest thru the trees....

 

[Bob Owens]

Don't think the headline could be any more obvious! It is a whole new ball game now and hope the turds at TWU can at least get me something to consider and vote on before we all get laid off.

Why?

Do you think that if we vote in more concessions you wont get laid off? The fact is that you could agree to work for minimum wage but if they reduce capacity and they dont have anything for you to do they are still going to reduce headcount. Wages dont determine headcount, workload does.

In 2003 the company said either give us 25% in concessions or we will have to eliminate around 2500 jobs, the union gave them the 25% and the company eliminated 4000 jobs.

 

[1AA]

Why?

Do you think that if we vote in more concessions you wont get laid off? The fact is that you could agree to work for minimum wage but if they reduce capacity and they dont have anything for you to do they are still going to reduce headcount. Wages dont determine headcount, workload does.

In 2003 the company said either give us 25% in concessions or we will have to eliminate around 2500 jobs, the union gave them the 25% and the company eliminated 4000 jobs.

If you are following what is happening to us in this industry you must come to a realization that layoffs are coming soon. No airline can continue to operate in the current financial state that is upon us. Reduction in capacities have been announced and are already falling into place. Regardless if we took the (2003) concession package or not American was going to layoff a significant amount of employees. The TWU knew this but instead of informing their members about the hard cold truth they decided to blow sunshine up our rears. Many believed the TWU would save jobs over pay cuts. The company got concessions and they sent people to the streets looking for work. The TWU's approach is to save jobs or better yet save union dues is not beneficial to today's business model. The TWU must come to realization that reduction in force is the only way to save the company from another potential bankruptcy filing. The TWU in 2003 told the company and its members that they will not touch the pension. Guess what? The pension was affected. PAY CUTS. You figure it out. American could have been in a much better financial position to weather the storm if it was not for the blunders that Carty made. The Selling off of Sabre, millions spent on Canadian Air and lost, the TWA acquisition. Plenty of blame to go around but Carty was the most to blame. The TWU was always there to help out the company in one way or another.

As far as the last proposal that was turned down, I felt the right decision was made. All we had to go on was the highlights. The union and company waived a monetary value (bonus payments) and added holidays and vc days. All this sounds good but did anybody get to see the proposal language in detail? Work rule changes were not even finalized for us to look at. Can you imagine if we signed off on this deal without even knowing what the language was. Work rules affects us on a daily basis. Bonus checks are a one time deal. We need to see the complete package before even presenting it to the members for a vote. This of course is asking too much from the TWU our lovely compAAny union. So you really do not know what the last package was all about and how it would affect us on a daily basis and for the rest of our employment at American. Next time think with a clear mind and avoid the flashing $$$$$ over your head.

 

[eolesen]

American could have been in a much better financial position to weather the storm if it was not for the blunders that Carty made. The Selling off of Sabre, millions spent on Canadian Air and lost, the TWA acquisition. Plenty of blame to go around but Carty was the most to blame.

Fact check....

Blame Carty for TWA if you want, but Crandall was in charge when the CP deal started out, and also when Sabre was spun off.

Too bad so many of you are too busy playing the victim when you should be focusing on figuring out how to survive...