U.S. airline merger talks could resume in '09
- Thread starter 767jetz
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Well, that's food for thought!
I am a great admirer of logical thinking.
(Right now, I'm thinking of the Air France/KLM "merger".)
I marvel at how they've achieved a solution to avoid financial "hard times" for both airlines.
How familiar are we with the Air France/KLM deal?
Two separate airlines that have "merged" in a rather logical way and have avoided serious labour and contractual issues specific to both airlines.
Why? Each carrier respected their Collective Bairgaining Agreements and have kept their cultural and corporate individuality. But, when it comes to big savings (fuel, gates, catering etc...) they've joined forces!
Synergies that benefit both carrriers werer wisely implemented to benefit both carriers, generating a great source of revenew, as well as keeping the costs down.
Are United & Continental following the same path? I do sincerely hope so!
Safe flying
I am a great admirer of logical thinking.
(Right now, I'm thinking of the Air France/KLM "merger".)
I marvel at how they've achieved a solution to avoid financial "hard times" for both airlines.
How familiar are we with the Air France/KLM deal?
Two separate airlines that have "merged" in a rather logical way and have avoided serious labour and contractual issues specific to both airlines.
Why? Each carrier respected their Collective Bairgaining Agreements and have kept their cultural and corporate individuality. But, when it comes to big savings (fuel, gates, catering etc...) they've joined forces!
Synergies that benefit both carrriers werer wisely implemented to benefit both carriers, generating a great source of revenew, as well as keeping the costs down.
Are United & Continental following the same path? I do sincerely hope so!
Safe flying
phasersonstun2
Veteran
- May 1, 2003
- 560
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Deal in the works... announcement in May; the traditional announcement month for failed future mergers.
If hell breaks loose and we (Cal) decide to merge with UAL, a AF/KLM type merger would be the best thing for both airlines. It would be pure hell having us being the smaller but much stronger carrier, trying to absorb UAL's mass numbers, and massive Tilton mess. I shutter at the thought...... :blink:
OP
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
- Thread Starter
- #5
I don't blame you. At least as far as the mess that Tilton created. Please keep in mind that most UA employees I talk to are not looking to take anyone's seniority or position, regardless of our size relative to yours. (Unlke another recent merger that created a civil war.)
It's quite clear to everyone that your management team is far superior to ours, and we would be happy just having the security of someone running this place properly, and the benefits to both sides of better works rules and pay for all.
For example, a 767 F/O of my hire date, would be a 767 captain at CO. However I have absolutely no desire or expectation of that happening. I would be quite satisfied keeping my current relative position and seat, and slinging the gear for a captain at CO with far fewer years than me. Heck, paint all our airplanes with Continental colors, change my uniform, and get rid of UA's call sign for all I care. All I want is job security, reasonable career progression, more respect from management, better pay and work rules, a place for my furloughed comrades to return to eventually, and NO MORE GLEN TILTON! These are all attainable in a CO/UA merger.
The employees are not the problem. It is purely the management. With the right people at the helm, we could do great things together.
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Sorry to tell ya 767....Hottotrot is a Usairways employee....
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
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It's odd that a US employee would post things like:
Maybe s(he) just likes pulling people's chain...or doesn't work for US after all.
Jim
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orHottootrotNyc said:
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HottootrotNyc said:
Maybe s(he) just likes pulling people's chain...or doesn't work for US after all.
Jim
Uh, NO... I am not pulling anyone's chain. I am a Continental Flight Attendant and a former Delta Flight Attendant. I have never worked for US Airways, AA, UAL, or any other airline, aside from Song, if you want to consider it anything aside from Delta with a few planes given a new name. I don't understand how asking a simple question such as "Is 105 hours the max a F/A at US can fly?", something that would confuse anyone into thinking I work for them. If I did work for them, I would be on furlough, considering when I entered the industry.
Aside from all of that, yes we are all worried at CAL that we might merge with UAL. Not a single person at Continental want's it to happen and for good reasoning. We are not the most senior airline since we still offer retirement, but many of the people that work here remember quite well those good ole Denver day's, and what UAL did to Continental. I can't tell you how many commuter's I know from DEN, that would never set foot on a UAL plane, and do double commute's through IAH so not to given them a single dollar off of a ZED fare. I can't say I blame them. A company that once tried to put Continental under, is now cozying up and trying to marry us. One thing my decade in this industry has taught me is that people don't forget ANYTHING.
My biggest worry is the union's, our pension staying intact, and the fact that we would need fencing and slotting to fully protect ourselves. There are so many things that can and will go wrong with this and it's quite scary. IAD is so close to EWR, which will shrink? UAL's Flight Attendant's run on a very old out dated system. We have the freedom to fly 200 hour's (We have alot of six figure F/A's that do) or 0 if we so choose. I chose to leave Delta and give up my seniority because I felt they abused us being non-union. The last thing I want is to finally be at a semi-stable airline, and for it to be turned upside down. If I offend any UAL people, I'm sorry that I want to protect my own interest and my co-worker's first.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
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After retiring from US after 27 years (the first 10 with PI) you definitely stayed away from the right airline if you want even a semi-stable airline career...
Jim
I can't tell you how many commuter's I know from DEN, that would never set foot on a UAL plane, and do double commute's through IAH so not to given them a single dollar off of a ZED fare.
You wouldn't need to use a ZED fare if CO would ever agree to allow free F/A Jumpseating. I mean at this point, they are probably the last to enter the agreement. Seems like your union should be working on this to help its' commuting membership out.
You wouldn't need to use a ZED fare if CO would ever agree to allow free F/A Jumpseating. I mean at this point, they are probably the last to enter the agreement. Seems like your union should be working on this to help its' commuting membership out.
They had a petition going around in our crew room about this and I refused to sign it. I am not for cross jump seating and I don't want anything like jetBlue has at our airline. The amount of work space we have, as you to would know, is not large and the last thing I "PERSONALLY" want is more jumpseaters. The other day I worked a trip to MCO on the 757-300. We have 9 jumpseats and 5 crew working the plane, and the last 4 were taken by commuters. After take-off they all had to come and sit in the back galley, and I couldn't use the galley. I had to take everything upfront, carts and all, to work out of our small mid-galley. I don't think it's fair to the working crew member to have that many j/sers at once. Opening our j/s's up to 17,000 more people only makes the working crew members life more difficult. I have never in my entire career sat in a j/s unless I am working. If I can't get a seat I won't go.
UMMM, it is jump seating in name only. It is unlimited space available cabin seat only accommodation. Only Jetblue lets you sit on the J/S, atleast with AA's agreements. Although, Jetblue can't sit on our J/S's either. At AA only Eagle F/A's can sit on our J/S's, ONLY after any and all AA F/A's first. Once again, OA J/S'ers come after all the usuall non-revs. It really is just to fill the seats that would go out empty. I don't understand why anybody would be against anything, when they don't know the details. Just seems crazy to me. Out of curiosity, why didn't you ask for the details before assuming?
I didn't need to ask details because I already knew that it was AT THIS TIME, for cabin seating only. In my opinion the next step would be to open up the j/s's to people of other airlines. I could careless who sits in a seat but they couldn't tell me if others sitting in our j/s down the line would or would not ever happen. To me it wasn't worth the risk. Another problem I find with airlines like JB, is if seats are open there crew members will offer to take a j/s and allow people from other airlines to take the seats, therefore filling the j/s's. This would be a constant problem if the actual j/s is opened for all, down the road.
We have plenty of options for those that commute, to get to work everyday. I would rather someone spend a few bucks on a ID90 or ZED if they can't get a seat or j/s on us. Do you know what it's like trying to work on a 737-900 with all the j/s's (our own airline) sitting in the back galley, while I am trying to serve special meals and then hot meals and keep a beverage cart stocked? It's hell and they can't sit up front because the service requires carts be pulled out by the foward j/s. So in my lone opinion, it's not worth the risk of "Possibly" becoming like JB.
We have plenty of options for those that commute, to get to work everyday. I would rather someone spend a few bucks on a ID90 or ZED if they can't get a seat or j/s on us. Do you know what it's like trying to work on a 737-900 with all the j/s's (our own airline) sitting in the back galley, while I am trying to serve special meals and then hot meals and keep a beverage cart stocked? It's hell and they can't sit up front because the service requires carts be pulled out by the foward j/s. So in my lone opinion, it's not worth the risk of "Possibly" becoming like JB.
And how is this going to help?? ID90 or ZED fare will only be good to fan you face as the AC pushes back without you on it. Some people use the j/s because they don't want to pay the pass charges, which can add up if you do it every week.
As for the j/s on the 737-900, that's a laugh. One extra person in the galley isn't going to cause a big disruption. You make is sound like there are more than one.
Actually there is more then one, since minimum crew is 4 and we only have 5 when we have a meal in the back. So in most cases there is 2 empty j/s's and both being in the back of the aircraft. If it's taken by a working crew member they are up working, if it's taken by one OR two non-rev's then there are two people just sitting back there while trying to work. We now have the same problem on the 800, there are always 4 and another double j/s has been added in, so now there is the chance of always 2 people sitting in the back while you are trying to work. So yes most times there is more then one person. If you choose to commute that is your choice and I don't feel everyone should have to suffer for it. I use to commute and never once sat in a j/s, because I know how hard it can be for the working crew. I planned ahead and made sure I had a seat if not on my own airline then through a ID 90, even if it I had to go in the day before.
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