UA/CO............ AA ?

[wings396]

Here we go again, TWA people were not the only airline people to get screwed. Remember Eastern? PanAm? Braniff? National? just to name a few.

Everyone needs to understand airline mergers are the preferred method of eliminating another airline. Overlapping routes, facilities, different fleet types...etc etc...always result in layoffs and airports served.

Get used to it.

Your statement is not all that accurate when it comes to the airlines listed. Braniff just plain old went out of business, as did Eastern although they were due to different circumstances. Pan Am purchased National in order to add domestic feed to their International network, then they botched up the combined airline within time. Delta only purchased a part of the Pan Am operation, so I wouldn't consider that an all-out merger. On the other hand, AA did purchase/merge the entire TWA operation into theirs followed by massive cuts of the former TWA employees.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

What's next for AA is to keep expanding its "virtual mergers" with BA, JL, etc. Continental and United will be distracted for a long time trying to digest each other (a merger of "equals", after all). AA doesn't need to be the biggest, only to maintain a global route network and offer competitive fares and soft product. If they can stay focused on costs down/revenue up that $500 million loss eventually swing back into the black.

 

[MCI transplant]

What's next for AA is to keep expanding its "virtual mergers" with BA, JL, etc. Continental and United will be distracted for a long time trying to digest each other (a merger of "equals", after all). AA doesn't need to be the biggest, only to maintain a global route network and offer competitive fares and soft product. If they can stay focused on costs down/revenue up that $500 million loss eventually swing back into the black.

<_< ------ "Virtual mergers"? AA?------ Oh, I don't think so. Along with arrogance, comes a since of self worth, both perceived, or unperceived. AA's management has too big of an ego to play second fiddle to an "old rival"!!! But than again, time will tell!

 

[AANOTOK]

Here is a much rumored start!

http://newsminer.com/bookmark/7277925

 

[eolesen]

I'll disagree with ego playing into this. There's a point where the myth of critical mass meets the point of diminishing returns. AA was the biggest airline for a couple years after the TW acquisition, and the structural problems with that got blamed on 9/11 but were starting to manifest themselves in January 2001, well before the acquisition started to take place.

DLNW & UACO will definitely have some halo effect from the larger networks, but at some point, I expect the long term pain of the merger to settle in.

 

[MCI transplant]

I'll disagree with ego playing into this. There's a point where the myth of critical mass meets the point of diminishing returns. AA was the biggest airline for a couple years after the TW acquisition, and the structural problems with that got blamed on 9/11 but were starting to manifest themselves in January 2001, well before the acquisition started to take place.

DLNW & UACO will definitely have some halo effect from the larger networks, but at some point, I expect the long term pain of the merger to settle in.

<_< ------- My reply was just one man's opinion.------ But let's see how this will all play out!

 

[Hopeful]

Your statement is not all that accurate when it comes to the airlines listed. Braniff just plain old went out of business, as did Eastern although they were due to different circumstances. Pan Am purchased National in order to add domestic feed to their International network, then they botched up the combined airline within time. Delta only purchased a part of the Pan Am operation, so I wouldn't consider that an all-out merger. On the other hand, AA did purchase/merge the entire TWA operation into theirs followed by massive cuts of the former TWA employees.

You're reading too much into my comment. Regardless of how the above mentioned airlines met their demise, the fact remains that airline employees have gotten screwed and have paid the price since deregulation.
What happened to all airline employees since deregulation has been a travesty and still continues to be.

How an airline went out of business or how the name no longer existed, an airline employee got screwed as a result...Be it TWA, Eastern, PanAM, or Braniff.

 

[eolesen]

Fact is that without deregulation, most airline employees wouldn't have had jobs. AA had fewer than 300 aircraft prior to deregulation. I forget how few employees there were, but IIRC it was less than 20,000 *including* SkyChefs and Sabre.

 

[nbmcg01]

The ultimate dichotomy: Karma vs. survival...hummmmmmmmmm

 

[FWAAA]

Fact is that without deregulation, most airline employees wouldn't have had jobs. AA had fewer than 300 aircraft prior to deregulation. I forget how few employees there were, but IIRC it was less than 20,000 *including* SkyChefs and Sabre.

No kidding. Airlines added hundreds of thousands of jobs in the '80s and '90s as air travel became affordable for everyone with a job, instead of being an expensive luxury. It's been great for consumers and bad for the employees of the airlines that haven't been winners over the past 10 years. It's also been great for all the people hired by WN, B6, FL and all the other growing LCCs.

Wagon wheel and buggy manufacturers hated the auto revolution, but those car companies ultimately hired millions of people. Sadly, their fortunes have also waned over the past 30+ years as Americans fell in love with cars made all over the world instead of just those built in Detroit. Change bites for those married to the past. Change is wonderful for those who anticipate it and profit from it.

 

[floatingon9]

Will American and US Airways be the next big U.S. airlines to merge?


American & US Airways next?

 

[Hopeful]

No kidding. Airlines added hundreds of thousands of jobs in the '80s and '90s as air travel became affordable for everyone with a job, instead of being an expensive luxury. It's been great for consumers and bad for the employees of the airlines that haven't been winners over the past 10 years. It's also been great for all the people hired by WN, B6, FL and all the other growing LCCs.

Wagon wheel and buggy manufacturers hated the auto revolution, but those car companies ultimately hired millions of people. Sadly, their fortunes have also waned over the past 30+ years as Americans fell in love with cars made all over the world instead of just those built in Detroit. Change bites for those married to the past. Change is wonderful for those who anticipate it and profit from it.

Those marvelous airline jobs that were created were with little benefits and reduced wages. People's Express was the flavor of the day. In order for travel to be affordable for everyone, airlines had to reduce costs..and they launched a campaign against the airline worker so cheap tickets could be offered.
They looked no where else except labor...thanks to Lorenzo and Reagan's firing of the controllers which set the tone against labor.

As for how it's been great for the low cost carrier employees...I know a couple of employees who went to Jetblue in the earlier years and were given a hefty amount of stock optioned in the high 20's near 30....
How are they doing?

 

[MCI transplant]

Will American and US Airways be the next big U.S. airlines to merge?


American & US Airways next?

<_< ------ One man's opinion,-------- I still think Our-pay has dreams of merging with British Air. I realize the law, as it stands today, prohibits a true merger, but I feel AA would love to find a way to get around that!

 

[FA Mikey]

For what little in usairways, AA could want or use, its not worth the price, drama or headaches.

 

[eolesen]

Those marvelous airline jobs that were created were with little benefits and reduced wages. People's Express was the flavor of the day. In order for travel to be affordable for everyone, airlines had to reduce costs..and they launched a campaign against the airline worker so cheap tickets could be offered.
They looked no where else except labor...thanks to Lorenzo and Reagan's firing of the controllers which set the tone against labor.

That's a pretty long day for People Express (there was no apostrophe-S), considering that's where the EWR hub for CO came from. It will be 30 years old next April, and it's still going strong....

My first airline job was with PE as a gate agent, and those who stayed on with CO after the merger did OK, even with Lorenzo at the helm. So did those of us who stayed in the industry. My former station manager is now a senior VP at United, and there's at least one MD at AA who also started out at PE, and a half dozen or so managers.

As for how it's been great for the low cost carrier employees...I know a couple of employees who went to Jetblue in the earlier years and were given a hefty amount of stock optioned in the high 20's near 30....
How are they doing?

Were those shares optioned before the three 3:2 stock splits in 2002, 2003 and 2005?