AA should buy ALASKA Air !

[MCI transplant]

Fixer gave us the wrong link. Here's the correct one:

http://www.deb.uscourts.gov/Opinions/2001/TWA_STAY.pdf

From page 10-11:
Note the bolded portion. TWA was broke. It needed $40 million to fund its continued existence on Jan 11, 2001 and had substantially less than that. Argue all you want - a federal bankruptcy court disagrees with you. Which of you was in a better position to determine the facts? You, an airplane mechanic (presumably busy fixing airplanes) or a bankruptcy court judge?

Keep it up with the outlandish conspiracy theories about how AA and TWA conned a federal bankruptcy court judge and pretty soon not even your friends and supporters will listen to your lunatic rantings and ravings. Dare I say it - you'll "Bob Owens" yourself if you aren't careful. B)

<_< -----So what does this prove? When TWA hit Bankruptcy, it was broke! O.K.! In a years time Compton took TWA's funds from $100Mil+ to between $20-$30 mil.! I never said TWA was in the best financial shape "prior" to Compton taking TWA into bankruptcy, but what I did say was I felt Compton and Carty purposely accelerated that process! Small example: What Company, in the finical shape TWA was in, would give all it's employees a $100 bonus per month,for first in class, on time performance? Not $25, like aa is doing now, but $100? If in fact, TWA was in that dire straights? And I believe they were doing just that up tell the time we entered Chapt.11!!!-----And I know Bob will love that last remark!!!!

 

[777 fixer]

<_< ---- I'll say it again fixxer, "I don't know where your coming up with that figure! It's certainly not on page 10 of your link! Nor is your claim of TWA approaching seven Airlines, on page 5!

Sorry, I posted a link to a March 2001 decision. I was going to post the correct one but it appears others have already done so.

Now if you are still having doubts here's a link to the court web site. Just go to opinions and then onto opinions issued in 2001. There are four total concerning TWA. Then maybe this little denial festival of yours will be over.

< http://www.deb.uscourts.gov/ >

<_< ---- As for the Boeing deal, we weren't previed to the details, but we all were under the assumption that Boeing wanted the MCI facility! Nothing was said about grounding the feet! Remember, our fleet was a heck of a lot smaller than aa's! Ichan's ticket deal was just that! Ticket sales! Any income from Maintenance was out of his reach!! In other words, if this deal had gone through, refinancing any dept would not have been a problem! And there may have been enough profit to our bottom line to pull us through those three years remaining on Ichan's contract!

So basically they were only interested in MCI. What about the rest of the airline? How could Boeing taking over or injecting money into MCI keep TWA as a whole afloat? Once again you seem to dismiss the importance of that ticket deal. Also, you seem to think that Boeing was the Knight in shinning armor. If this was the case then why were they charging TWA so much to lease planes.

 

[MCI transplant]

Sorry, I posted a link to a March 2001 decision. I was going to post the correct one but it appears others have already done so.

Now if you are still having doubts here's a link to the court web site. Just go to opinions and then onto opinions issued in 2001. There are four total concerning TWA. Then maybe this little denial festival of yours will be over.

< http://www.deb.uscourts.gov/ >
So basically they were only interested in MCI. What about the rest of the airline? How could Boeing taking over or injecting money into MCI keep TWA as a whole afloat? Once again you seem to dismiss the importance of that ticket deal. Also, you seem to think that Boeing was the Knight in shinning armor. If this was the case then why were they charging TWA so much to lease planes.

<_< ------Fixxer,Fixxer! How many times do you want me to say it? I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF WHAT WAS DISCUSSED WITH BOEING! I WASN'T THERE!! What I heard at the time was the Unions were there to negotiate the possible sale of the whole Airline! And if you can't understand the concept of an MRO type operation helping the bottom line of a Airline, your working for the wrong Company!!!The ticket deal may, or may not, have been the reason Boeing backed away from any talks! We'll never know, will we????----

 

[777 fixer]

<_< ------Fixxer,Fixxer! How many times do you want me to say it? I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF WHAT WAS DISCUSSED WITH BOEING! I WASN'T THERE!!

So basically your information is based on hearsay, rumor and innuendo.

<_< ------ What I heard at the time was the Unions were there to negotiate the possible sale of the whole Airline!

Now you are saying they were trying to negotiate the sale of the whole airline as opposed to just MCI. Which is it, MCI or TWA? The Air Mail Act is what stoped manufactuers from owning an airline. Maybe the lwas have changed and maybe somone witha bit more knowledge could shed some light on this. Also, what percentage of shares did the unions hold in TWA?

<_< ------And if you can't understand the concept of an MRO type operation helping the bottom line of a Airline, your working for the wrong Company!!!The ticket deal may, or may not, have been the reason Boeing backed away from any talks! We'll never know, will we????----

I understand it quite well thank you. Key word here is "helping". The idea that the MRO dept could save an airline in such poor financial shape as TWA is laughable.

 

[MCI transplant]

So basically your information is based on hearsay, rumor and innuendo.
Now you are saying they were trying to negotiate the sale of the whole airline as opposed to just MCI. Which is it, MCI or TWA? The Air Mail Act is what stoped manufactuers from owning an airline. Maybe the lwas have changed and maybe somone witha bit more knowledge could shed some light on this. Also, what percentage of shares did the unions hold in TWA?
I understand it quite well thank you. Key word here is "helping". The idea that the MRO dept could save an airline in such poor financial shape as TWA is laughable.

<_< ---- Friend, Have you ever heard the saying "Don't kill the messenger?" I told you what I've heard, at the time! Now you can take it for what it is, or not! That's your propagative! Weather our Unions were talking a full buy out, or other arrangements, I have no idea! The talks involved MCI, and a Boeing sponsored warranty program, that much I do know! As for your Air Mail Act. I'm sure a Company the size of Boeing could find a way around it if they wanted! Just like Carty and Company found a way around Uncle Carl,and our Scope Clauses! As for our Unions positions,(for the second time), the IAM, and the Pilots Union both held seats on our Board of Directors! And the single biggest holders of TWA voting stock were the TWA employees! As for if an MRO operation would have saved TWA. With the backing of a Company like Boeing, what do you think?----- But than again! This is all speculative, now isn't it? Hearsay, Rummor, and innuendo? I never clamed otherwise!!!

 

[nbmcg01]

<_< ---- Friend, Have you ever heard the saying "Don't kill the messenger?" I told you what I've heard, at the time! Now you can take it for what it is, or not! That's your propagative! Weather our Unions were talking a full buy out, or other arrangements, I have no idea! The talks involved MCI, And a Boeing sponsored warranty program, that much I do know! As for your Air Mail Act. I'm sure a Company the size of Boeing could find a way around it if they wanted! Just like Carty and Company found a way around our Scope Clauses! As for our Unions positions,(for the second time), the IAM, and the Pilots Union both held seats on our Board of Directors! And the single biggest holders of TWA voting stock were the TWA employees! As for if an MRO operation would have saved TWA. With the backing of a Company like Boeing, what do you think?----- But than again! This is all speculative, now isn't it?

Answer to original question. "NO!!!!!" Many of us love Alaska Airlines and they too would not fit into American's corporate culture.

 

[MCI transplant]

Answer to original question. "NO!!!!!" Many of us love Alaska Airlines and they too would not fit into American's corporate culture.

<_< --- Hey! I have no argument with that!!! We (exTWAers) don't fit either! That's why aa got reed of most of us!!! But this is all business! We found out the hard way, that employee loyalty works one way, and one way only! From bottom up, not the other way around! Hard lesson to learn, but sadly true!!!----- At least at aa you know where you stand! There's no loyalty here, in either direction, and everyone knows it!

 

[aafsc]

Answer to original question. "NO!!!!!" Many of us love Alaska Airlines and they too would not fit into American's corporate culture.

You and MCITransplant love Alaska Air's corporate culture? What a joke. Your and MCI's hatrid towards AA has blinded both of you to the facts. Lets see, Alaska farmed out all it's heavy maintance putting its heavy overhaul AMTs on the street. If twa would have ended up with Alaska and their "great corporate culture" the MCI base would now be a ghost town and all those twaers would be gone. Have you forgotten what Alaska did to their ramp workers in the lower 48 states? Yeah, real good corporate culture. The fact is that because of AA, the MCI base is still open and the ex-twa overhaul mechanics there are among the highest paid in the industry. AA could have easily closed MCI and STL but decided to keep them open. The twaers blind intense hate for AA, because they did not GET IT ALL, has distorted their perception of reality.

As for the former MCI mx base being a "savior" for twa, get real. Even the third party hackshops loose or barely make money; inspite of their piss poor AMT payscales. Face it, twa was dead and there is no way you can prove otherwise to bolster your position of having full seniority at AA.

 

[nbmcg01]

You and MCITransplant love Alaska Air's corporate culture? What a joke. Your and MCI's hatrid towards AA has blinded both of you to the facts. Lets see, Alaska farmed out all it's heavy maintance putting its heavy overhaul AMTs on the street. If twa would have ended up with Alaska and their "great corporate culture" the MCI base would now be a ghost town and all those twaers would be gone. Have you forgotten what Alaska did to their ramp workers in the lower 48 states? Yeah, real good corporate culture. The fact is that because of AA, the MCI base is still open and the ex-twa overhaul mechanics there are among the highest paid in the industry. AA could have easily closed MCI and STL but decided to keep them open. The twaers blind intense hate for AA, because they did not GET IT ALL, has distorted their perception of reality.

As for the former MCI mx base being a "savior" for twa, get real. Even the third party hackshops loose or barely make money; inspite of their piss poor AMT payscales. Face it, twa was dead and there is no way you can prove otherwise to bolster your position of having full seniority at AA.

I didn't say I loved Alaska's corporate culture. I like where they fly, the f/as are super, and I don't like AAs corporate culture. Very simple. I like most of the AA employees I've met and have enjoyed great flights from IOR and IDF. Domestic have been ok except out of STL where they have been "iffy", except when MIA was the crew. AA is the one that has stated that the former TWA f/as don't fit AA's corporate culture. I think that is a compliment. I will put my 350 "orchid" letters, Award of Excellence and the pride I have in my job performance against any of AA's f/as. I don't think AA would have found any problem with my work. They have never been able to define their corporate culture when asked for a clear definition. Somehow the f/as at AA earned an interesting nickname. That didn't come from being "angels".

As for getting it "all", you have never heard that from me. I certainly don't hate AA. I do, however, have a problem with shady business dealings. I think it is despicable to use the tragedy of 9-11 for corporate greed. I think it is unethical to not give credit for the savings generated by ALL of the furloughed employees (f/as @ over $600,000,000) which have been a large part of AAs financial turn around, increased stock price, which generated those fabulous bonus payments. Senior management can choose to not give credit BUT they cannot negate the figures. I think they have a moral and ethical responsibility to return anyone still wanting their previous job the opportunity to return. I don't really care if it takes 10 years and only one persons says "yes". And yes moderator, that includes furloughed mangt. AA brings out the "industry leading" banner ONLY when it looks good in the press. Let's see them put that slogan into practice. See, this really has nothing to do with TWA.

 

[777 fixer]

Answer to original question. "NO!!!!!" Many of us love Alaska Airlines and they too would not fit into American's corporate culture.

Two things, one what was the answer to the original question on the "AA 's selling TW 767's to FEDEX?" thread before you changed it into something else entirely. Two, name one airline merger where the two corporate cultures were a perfect match.

 

[MCI transplant]

Two things, one what was the answer to the original question on the "AA 's selling TW 767's to FEDEX?" thread before you changed it into something else entirely. Two, name one airline merger where the two corporate cultures were a perfect match.

<_< ---- Boy Fixxer, your getting pretty demanding here lately! nbmcg01 simply made a statement that she wouldn't like to see Alaska Airlines gobbled up by aa! That's a simple, straight forward, statement! I really don't fell she is obligated to name you anything!

 

[nbmcg01]

Two things, one what was the answer to the original question on the "AA 's selling TW 767's to FEDEX?" thread before you changed it into something else entirely. Two, name one airline merger where the two corporate cultures were a perfect match.

I merely answered the 767 question honestly. Others took off on another tangent. Actually I think the 767 were returned to the lessors.

 

[FWAAA]

<_< -----So what does this prove? When TWA hit Bankruptcy, it was broke! O.K.! In a years time Compton took TWA's funds from $100Mil+ to between $20-$30 mil.! I never said TWA was in the best financial shape "prior" to Compton taking TWA into bankruptcy, but what I did say was I felt Compton and Carty purposely accelerated that process! Small example: What Company, in the finical shape TWA was in, would give all it's employees a $100 bonus per month,for first in class, on time performance? Not $25, like aa is doing now, but $100? If in fact, TWA was in that dire straights? And I believe they were doing just that up tell the time we entered Chapt.11!!!-----And I know Bob will love that last remark!!!!

No, not in a "years time" - but in a mere 10 days time. Read it more closely. Between the end of 2000 and the 10th day of 2001 (a mere 10 DAYS), TWA burned thru $70 to $80 million paying its bills to stay flying. And didn't have enough for the Jan 11 cash call. End of story.

What kind of company would give each employee $100/mo? A two-time bankrupt company spiraling toward its third (and last) trip to Ch 11, that's what kind of company. $100 bucks each was about $2 million a month. Not chicken feed, but clearly not why TWA was broke. Ichan stole hundreds of millions from TWA and that's why the company was broke.

Carty and Compton accelerated the process? How the hell did they do that? The very next day (January 11, 2001) TWA had to pay off more maturing debt than the total available cash balance. You try that sometime and see how long you stay out of bankruptcy court. The very next day, every paycheck would bounce. Fuel wouldn't get paid. The airline would have shut down. Period. Companies file for Ch 11 protection so they can stay in business and not have to liquidate when their cash runs dry.

 

[777 fixer]

I merely answered the 767 question honestly. Others took off on another tangent. Actually I think the 767 were returned to the lessors.

No you did'nt. If you were being honest and stuck to the subject matter you would have said they were returned to the leasors and left it at that.

 

[MCI transplant]

No, not in a "years time" - but in a mere 10 days time. Read it more closely. Between the end of 2000 and the 10th day of 2001 (a mere 10 DAYS), TWA burned thru $70 to $80 million paying its bills to stay flying. And didn't have enough for the Jan 11 cash call. End of story.

What kind of company would give each employee $100/mo? A two-time bankrupt company spiraling toward its third (and last) trip to Ch 11, that's what kind of company. $100 bucks each was about $2 million a month. Not chicken feed, but clearly not why TWA was broke. Ichan stole hundreds of millions from TWA and that's why the company was broke.

Carty and Compton accelerated the process? How the hell did they do that? The very next day (January 11, 2001) TWA had to pay off more maturing debt than the total available cash balance. You try that sometime and see how long you stay out of bankruptcy court. The very next day, every paycheck would bounce. Fuel wouldn't get paid. The airline would have shut down. Period. Companies file for Ch 11 protection so they can stay in business and not have to liquidate when their cash runs dry.

<_< ---- 10 days was it? FWAAA you've made my case for me! And yes, I agree! Icahn Raped us big time! On that point there's no argument! But really if your pointing fingers, it go's back further than Icahn. I feel the beginning of the end was when Smart and Co.,(Trans World Corp.) spoon us off from the Companies, bought and paid for with Airline money! That was the beginning of the end! Just to name a few: Hilton International, Spartan Foods, Hardy's Hamburgers, Canteen International, and others.