UAL Maintenance & Related Will Vote on Union Representation

[kcabpilot]

You guys just don''t get it do you? They shut down Oakland and Indy and farmed out all of the maintenance because that''s what they''ve wanted to do right from the beginning. It''s been in the contract proposals from way before the bankruptcy filing. Management has had a fixation on farming out all maintenance to Timco for years. They claim it''s cheaper (never mind that Timco has never made a profit).

Anyway, you don''t see the pathetic irony of them farming out our maintenance work to OSV and then having us do unskilled production work to supply that OSV? Why didn''t they just outsource the less critical unskilled production work? It''s not about "me, me, me". ''X'' number of jobs outsourced means ''X'' number of Mechanics onto the street. Your seniority date determines your fate, not "me". The end result is the same but at least we hold onto the higher skilled jobs that we are certified to perform. It would be better for, if nothing else, the safety of the airline.

 

[ual747mech]

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On 5/28/2003 741 PM kcabpilot wrote:

You guys just don't get it do you? They shut down Oakland and Indy and farmed out all of the maintenance because that's what they've wanted to do right from the beginning. It's been in the contract proposals from way before the bankruptcy filing. Management has had a fixation on farming out all maintenance to Timco for years. They claim it's cheaper (never mind that Timco has never made a profit).

Anyway, you don't see the pathetic irony of them farming out our maintenance work to OSV and then having us do unskilled production work to supply that OSV? Why didn't they just outsource the less critical unskilled production work? It's not about "me, me, me". 'X' number of jobs outsourced means 'X' number of Mechanics onto the street. Your seniority date determines your fate, not "me". The end result is the same but at least we hold onto the higher skilled jobs that we are certified to perform. It would be better for, if nothing else, the safety of the airline.

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You're the one who doesn't get it. What the company proposes and what they get are two different things. Was closing Oakland and Indy part of the Recovery Plan TA? It was not, wasn't it? That's why I'd rather have a union than not having one(like some people are thinking) to keep the company from unilaterally imposing whatever they feel like changing. You should be happy that your so called unskilled job is still there. Get over it, the overhaul is history for now. Enough with that I'm skilled, they're unskilled mentallity allready. Every job is important!

 

[kcabpilot]

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On 5/28/2003 9:38:10 PM ual747mech wrote:

Was closing Oakland and Indy part of the Recovery Plan TA? It was not, wasn't it?

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Not sure what you're trying to say (or ask) there 747 as you've got a double negative in your sentence but you'd better take a look at that old T/A again. But then that's neither here nor there anyway because it's already done. The maintenance bases are history.

and you voted for it, didn't you...
or, as you'd put it - you didn't not vote for it.

 

[ual747mech]

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On 5/28/2003 11:52:00 PM kcabpilot wrote:

But then that's neither here nor there anyway because it's already done. The maintenance bases are history.

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Exactly!! So why keep complaining about it. Like I said, just be thankful your job that supply the OSV is still in house. I support Amfa but people like you make me think twice about voting them in. The Amfa organizers have screwed up the negotiations by stepping in the middle of it and ended up getting delayed. I like Amfa but sometimes I don't know because I keep thinking about the people that will lead us once Amfa gets in are people like you who's got bad attitude and don't know when not to make a bad situation into worse. The major Amfa supporter in each station were the ones who were saying we were going to do better with the judge, full pay till the last day(not full anymore but u'r still here, it's funny), etc.

 

[1989]

I support Amfa but people like you make me think twice about voting them in. The Amfa organizers have screwed up the negotiations by stepping in the middle of it and ended up getting delayed.
I like Amfa but sometimes I don''t know because I keep thinking about the people that will lead us once Amfa gets in are people like you who''s got bad attitude and don''t know when not to make a bad situation into worse. The major Amfa supporter in each station were the ones who were saying we were going to do better with the judge, full pay till the last day(not full anymore but u''r still here, it''s funny), etc.

------
that is it... that is exactly how I feel.
we all know the IAM screwed things up for so long, that AMFA should win without much of a fight.
But, I don''t trust the guys that say they will represent us. They are the same Mechanics that would make some sort of deal with managment if it meant they would get something in return. They are a bunch of elitist, (not all of them ofcourse) but most of them. That is what worries me. But Like I said before, I think the IAM can read the writting on the wall.
It''s over...

AMFA may be better for us in the long run, but in the mean time, it''s gonna be a rollercoaster...​

 

[UAL_TECH]

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On 5/29/2003 9:28:02 PM 1989 wrote:

I support Amfa but people like you make me think twice about voting them in. The Amfa organizers have screwed up the negotiations by stepping in the middle of it and ended up getting delayed.
I like Amfa but sometimes I don''t know because I keep thinking about the people that will lead us once Amfa gets in are people like you who''s got bad attitude and don''t know when not to make a bad situation into worse. The major Amfa supporter in each station were the ones who were saying we were going to do better with the judge, full pay till the last day(not full anymore but u''r still here, it''s funny), etc.

------
that is it... that is exactly how I feel.
we all know the IAM screwed things up for so long, that AMFA should win without much of a fight.
But, I don''t trust the guys that say they will represent us. They are the same Mechanics that would make some sort of deal with managment if it meant they would get something in return. They are a bunch of elitist, (not all of them ofcourse) but most of them. That is what worries me. But Like I said before, I think the IAM can read the writting on the wall.
It''s over...

AMFA may be better for us in the long run, but in the mean time, it''s gonna be a rollercoaster...​

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AMFA will be better for ''US'' in the long (and short) run.
Have you read the constitution?
AMFA Constitution

If you have a distain for open [SIZE= 12pt]negotiations, [/SIZE]and democratic (not the [SIZE= 12pt]oligarchy [/SIZE]that we have today) principles then you should stick with we have.
AMFA is not going to be an ''easy'' solution. If you want to sit on your behind, not be involved, and complain about how ''they'' screwed you, then stick with the iam.
If you are looking for a better future, get involved, and be a part of the change rather than being a victim!

IMHO

Take Care,

UAL_TECH

 

[Checking it Out]

What the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association is Saying?
Who runs the Union?

They say you do, but the reality is all unions are controlled by the National Union''s leadership. AMFA is no different. The control that the National Union has over the union membership is repeatedly spelled out in AMFA''s new constitution. These provisions in AMFA''s constitution aren''t put there by mistake. They are designed to guarantee that all Local Unions set up by AMFA remain under the absolute final control of AMFA''s National leadership. And, you would be legally bound to follow AMFA Constitution. Here''s what AMFA''s constitution says:

• Article II, Section 1, AMFA''s National Director (O.V. Delle-Femine) has the power to "grant charters, preside over the approval of Local Bylaws and the assigning of new Locals to the region in which they can be best represented."
  Article II, Section 4, AMFA''s National Treasurer has the power "to audit the books of any or all Locals, with due cause as determined by a majority vote of the National Executive Council and upon his demand a Local shall turn over to him all such books and records."
  Article VIII, Section 9, spells out the power that AMFA''s National Executive Council has over any of its Local Unions: "A Local shall be subject to revocation or expulsion for any of the following actions or omissions:
  
  1. Failure to perform duties as provided in this Constitution
  
  2. Violation of any provisions of this Constitution
  
  3. Insubordination with respect to valid orders or directives of Officers and/or Convention of the National Association
  
  4. Circulation of libelous or slanderous statements concerning any officers or members of this Association
  
  5. Failure to otherwise carry out the legitimate objectives of this Association."
  Article VIII, Section 10: Local Union officers can be put on trial and reprimanded, removed from office, or suspended from office for any of the following offenses: "incompetence, negligence, or insubordination in performance of duty or refusal or failure to perform duties validly assigned."

They say you will run your own union? Yes, AMFA''s constitution guarantees you that you will have the right to vote on your local union matters, and local union leadership, but the reality is, even at the Local Union level, you will have very little say in "union affairs." Article IX, Section 5 provides suggested quorum rules (the minimum number of Local members who must be present at any meeting to conduct Local Union business). For Locals with more than 1750, but less than 2000 members, as few as 17 people can constitute a quorum. Almost all of AMFA''s voting is decided by a majority of people actually attending a meeting. This means that as few as 9 employees can make significant decisions affecting union affairs and your job.
If AMFA got voted in, who do you think would end up as your local union leaders? In reality, the people who are currently pushing the Union will very likely end up as your Local Union leaders. Look around. Are these really the people you want having enormous power over your job rights?

 

[atabuy]

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On 6/13/2003 3:41:49 AM UAL_TECH wrote:

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On 5/29/2003 9:28:02 PM 1989 wrote:

I support Amfa but people like you make me think twice about voting them in. The Amfa organizers have screwed up the negotiations by stepping in the middle of it and ended up getting delayed.

I like Amfa but sometimes I don''t know because I keep thinking about the people that will lead us once Amfa gets in are people like you who''s got bad attitude and don''t know when not to make a bad situation into worse.  The major Amfa supporter in each station were the ones who were saying we were going to do better with the judge, full pay till the last day(not full anymore but u''r still here, it''s funny), etc.


------

that is it... that is exactly how I feel.

we all know the IAM screwed things up for so long, that AMFA should win without much of a fight.

But, I don''t trust the guys that say they will represent us. They are the same Mechanics that would make some sort of deal with managment if it meant they would get something in return. They are a bunch of elitist, (not all of them ofcourse) but most of them. That is what worries me. But Like I said before, I think the IAM can read the writting on the wall.

It''s over...


AMFA may be better for us in the long run, but in the mean time, it''s gonna be a rollercoaster...​

----------------​

AMFA will be better for ''US'' in the long (and short) run.

Have you read the constitution?

AMFA Constitution


If you have a distain for open negotiations, and democratic (not the oligarchy that we have today) principles then you should stick with we have.

AMFA is not going to be an ''easy'' solution.  If you want to sit on your behind, not be involved, and complain about how ''they'' screwed you, then stick with the iam.

If you are looking for a better future, get involved, and be a part of the change rather than being a victim!


IMHO


Take Care,


  UAL_TECH

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UT,
The advice is very good, but I would reccommend the same advice for getting involved with the company.
The union can only get out of the company wages the company can afford to pay.
Help make the company more profitable and your wages can go up easier than always fighting against them.

 

[ual747mech]

I received my voting instruction today, picked up the phone and voted for AMFA. I went to the AMFA informational meeting last week and I was impressed with their answers while the IAM keeps passing out propaganda. I disagree with some of the Ual Amfa organizers but the IAM pushers put out more lies.

 

[ualflynhi]

The AMFA -vs IAM dispute is going to be settled shortly
and I hope AMFA is the big winner.USAir is filing soon
followed by American mechanics and related.Good Luck

 

[novaqt]

I''m sorry you voted to change your union at this time. Unions, in general, are all about DUES and Grievances. Nothing more. Just because you have become disenchanted and blame the IAM for your woes is no reason to vote in a new union at this time when the company who has given you a job, is in bankruptcy. When United gets back on its feet and becomes profitable again, that is the time to change your union if you so desire. I do not understand individuals who are so blind-sided by their anger and rage that all common sense and intelligence goes out the window.

No union is perfect and that includes AMFA. If you think for one minute, they are any different from any other union, think again.

 

[gatemech]

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On 6/16/2003 9:02:01 AM novaqt wrote:

I''m sorry you voted to change your union at this time. Unions, in general, are all about DUES and Grievances. Nothing more. Just because you have become disenchanted and blame the IAM for your woes is no reason to vote in a new union at this time when the company who has given you a job, is in bankruptcy. When United gets back on its feet and becomes profitable again, that is the time to change your union if you so desire. I do not understand individuals who are so blind-sided by their anger and rage that all common sense and intelligence goes out the window.

No union is perfect and that includes AMFA. If you think for one minute, they are any different from any other union, think again.

----------------​

Now is probably the best time to change unions. The contract we have now will stay in place for six years. In reality there should be labor peace. Don''t count on it. Anyway this will give AMFA six years to settle in and get ready for the next contract. That’s six years to pick apart and rewrite the IAM contract. During the six years USAir & American should be on board with AMFA. Now that is true power in numbers.

 

[UAL_TECH]

atabuy,

<<UT,
The advice is very good, but I would reccommend the same advice for getting involved with the company. The union can only get out of the company wages the company can afford to pay. Help make the company more profitable and your wages can go up easier than always fighting against them. >>

Good advice also.
Maybe we can get away fom the ''us'' -vs- ''them'' mentality.
We''ll have to wait and see.

Take Care,
UT

 

[atabuy]

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On 6/16/2003 10:52:38 AM gatemech wrote:

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On 6/16/2003 9:02:01 AM novaqt wrote:


I''m sorry you voted to change your union at this time. Unions, in general, are all about DUES and Grievances. Nothing more. Just because you have become disenchanted and blame the IAM for your woes is no reason to vote in a new union at this time when the company who has given you a job, is in bankruptcy. When United gets back on its feet and becomes profitable again, that is the time to change your union if you so desire. I do not understand individuals who are so blind-sided by their anger and rage that all common sense and intelligence goes out the window.


No union is perfect and that includes AMFA. If you think for one minute, they are any different from any other union, think again.


----------------​

Now is probably the best time to change unions. The contract we have now will stay in place for six years. In reality there should be labor peace. Don''t count on it. Anyway this will give AMFA six years to settle in and get ready for the next contract. That’s six years to pick apart and rewrite the IAM contract. During the six years USAir & American should be on board with AMFA. Now that is true power in numbers.

----------------​

I would have a hard time paying union dues to someone for 6 years without getting anything in return. What happens 7 years down the road if AMFA turns out to be a dog. The union dues will probably go up with AMFA also.
Seems like a lot of trust in a union who has done nothing up front but blow smoke.
Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[atabuy]

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On 6/16/2003 5:59:39 PM atabuy wrote:

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On 6/16/2003 10:52:38 AM gatemech wrote:

----------------


On 6/16/2003 9:02:01 AM novaqt wrote:



I''m sorry you voted to change your union at this time. Unions, in general, are all about DUES and Grievances. Nothing more. Just because you have become disenchanted and blame the IAM for your woes is no reason to vote in a new union at this time when the company who has given you a job, is in bankruptcy. When United gets back on its feet and becomes profitable again, that is the time to change your union if you so desire. I do not understand individuals who are so blind-sided by their anger and rage that all common sense and intelligence goes out the window.



No union is perfect and that includes AMFA. If you think for one minute, they are any different from any other union, think again.



----------------​

Now is probably the best time to change unions. The contract we have now will stay in place for six years. In reality there should be labor peace. Don''t count on it. Anyway this will give AMFA six years to settle in and get ready for the next contract. That’s six years to pick apart and rewrite the IAM contract. During the six years USAir &amp; American should be on board with AMFA. Now that is true power in numbers.


----------------​

I would have a hard time paying union dues to someone for 6 years without getting anything in return. What happens 7 years down the road if AMFA turns out to be a dog. The union dues will probably go up with AMFA also.

Seems like a lot of trust in a union who has done nothing up front but blow smoke.

Just my 2 cents worth.

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Something else I just thought of. How will AMFA interpret a contract they did not write.
You could be worse off than before with intent.