unite and empower

[4union]

I am a strong believer in collective bargaining. But in my opinion what has been wrong in this industry over the past few decades has been the rank in file playing into the managements strategy of divide and conquer. As evident at NWA. No fewer than seven unions representing the front line employees. Even more evident is the defection of the amt's and fleet service from the iam to amfa in the late 90's. That played right into managements hand.

It is also my opinion that the only way this merger will not go forward is if somebody can prove anti-trust. Any argument short of that will be nothing but chest pumping and a whole lot of rhetoric.

I propose that we all unite, dump alpa, amfa, iam, afa etc....and form the new Delta Airline Employees Union. Whereas, the highest paid pilot group represents 100% and everyone else falls into a portion of that by class and craft. One union, one contract and complete control over our own destinies

 

[GSEMAN]

This is already posted in NWA and I ask the moderators to remove.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

This is already posted in NWA and I ask the moderators to remove.

What if a reader ONLY comes to the Delta board? Some people have the Delta board bookmarked or AOL Favorite-Placed.
Are you suggesting censorship based on the fact that a posting is on more than one board and is not spam?
Should an Assoc. Press article in the Atlanta Journal be stricken because it is also in the Washington Post?
Just what are you suggesting...and why?

(Personally, I think your recent post, on this board as notated below, comparing one of the posters to the desperation of a victim of a serial killer as depicted in Silence of the Lambs was so distasteful that it should have been removed. I didn't call on the moderator to remove it. I just chose to never look at it again. It did put my opininon of you at an even lower place than it already was.)

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...seman&st=20

 

[700UW]

Fleet Service at NW is not AMFA, they are still IAM, the AMTs went AMFA and got their butt's handed to them.

And it is apparent you dont understand the RLA, the NMB and class and craft.

The reason each group has seperate CBAs, and/or unions is they are not in the same class and craft.

 

[4union]

Fleet Service at NW is not AMFA, they are still IAM, the AMTs went AMFA and got their butt's handed to them.

And it is apparent you dont understand the RLA, the NMB and class and craft.

The reason each group has seperate CBAs, and/or unions is they are not in the same class and craft.

Wrong, fleet service did defect with the amt's to amfa...I do understand how things are...what I propose is an umbrella cba with subsections pertaining to class and craft. Or continue to be divided and fall!

 

[Kev3188]

Wrong, fleet service did defect with the amt's to amfa...I do understand how things are...what I propose is an umbrella cba with subsections pertaining to class and craft. Or continue to be divided and fall!

If by "Fleet service" you mean A/C cleaners and custodians, then you are correct.

If by "Fleet Service" you mean ramp agents, you're dead wrong.

 

[1Conehead]

How do Cleaners, Custodians, and AMTs fall in to same class and craft ?
Why not same same union different subsections ?

 

[Kev3188]

How do Cleaners, Custodians, and AMTs fall in to same class and craft ?
Why not same same union different subsections ?

NMB determination decades ago...

While we're at it, I would think stock clerks would be with AMT's and not ramp service, but here we are....

 

[1Conehead]

I think stock clerks and bag smashers should be together , since they both just look at the tag and move the stuff where it needs to go, also ramp should push-back A/C since all you have to do is hook up a tug and move something. 😉

 

[tech2101]

If by "Fleet service" you mean A/C cleaners and custodians, then you are correct.

If by "Fleet Service" you mean ramp agents, you're dead wrong.

Kev, Do you have it in you to educate an entire new population...?

 

[Kev3188]

Kev, Do you have it in you to educate an entire new population...?

I'm not sure... maybe?

It won't stop me from trying, though....

 

[700UW]

Wrong, fleet service did defect with the amt's to amfa...I do understand how things are...what I propose is an umbrella cba with subsections pertaining to class and craft. Or continue to be divided and fall!

Nope, your wrong the ramp/fleet service are IAM and are represented by IAM District 143.

Show me otherwise, and Kev3188 who is a ramper at NW even states so.

IAM/NW Fleet Service CBA

 

[bagboy]

Nope, your wrong the ramp/fleet service are IAM and are represented by IAM District 143.

Show me otherwise, and Kev3188 who is a ramper at NW even states so.

IAM/NW Fleet Service CBA

At NWA we call "fleet service" cleaners. They did go with the techs to AMFA and fell during the strike in 2005. NWA gave the work back to the IAM for a short period with next to nothing for bodies to do the work. AMFA later negotiated their way back on to the property minus the fleet service personel. The AMFA threw the cleaners under the bus to get back in and thumb their noses at the IAM for their help during the strike. Fleet service is no longer represented by the AMFA or the IAM, they have ben vendored out at the hubs and the out stations. Some smaller stations that are IAM and performed the Fleet service work as part of their ramp duties still do RON and thru cleaning today. The CBA you have linked here is for the NWA ESE's or ramp.

 

[700UW]

If you look at the CBA, it is Mechanic and Related (cleaners) which are under AMFA, Mechanics and Cleaners are one craft and class per the NMB and have always had a seperate CBA then Fleet Service, which at NW is represented by the IAM and their CBA is ESSC.

Fleet Service are rampers, not cleaners, cleaners are cleaners, per class and craft.

From the AMFA CBA:

AGREEMENT between NORTHWEST AIRLINES, INC. And AIRCRAFT MECHANICS FRATERNAL ASSOCIATION
Technicians and Related Personnel

LEAD CLEANER: The work of a lead cleaner shall consist of assigning,
36 maintaining communications between work groups, scheduling deicing, lavatory
37 and water and aircraft cleaning duties, leading and directing the work of cleaners
38 and performing such part of the cleaner's work as may be required. Lead cleaners
39 will be selected on the basis of the Company’s assessment of comparative
40 qualifications regarding job-related criteria including the ability to handle
41 employees and assume responsibility. The number and utilization of leads will
42 be subject to the needs of the service as determined within the sole discretion
43 of management.
44
45 (F) CLEANER: The work of cleaners shall consist of cleaning, washing and
46 polishing the interior and exterior of airplanes, machinery, ramp and automotive
4.4
1coatings from surfaces whether or not intended for repainting; masking and
3 related duties preparing an airplane and related components/equipment for
4 stripping and painting; installing and removing snap-in and velcro fastened seat
5 pockets; removal and installation of seat cushions into and out of their covers and
6 into and out of an aircraft; regluing of seat cushions; removal and installation of
7 aircraft floor coverings (without the use of technicians’ tools on the minimum tool
8 list); transport of chairs into and out of aircraft; placement of life vests under
9 aircraft seats; resupplying passenger service kits (PSK); servicing an aircraft with
10 water; servicing lavatories; hazwoper clean-up; deicing aircraft; fumigation and
11 pest control; application of corrosion inhibitors to surfaces; cleaning of seat belts;
12 and cleaning of cargo nets, cleaning of engines; loading and unloading of engine
13 parts for cleaning in engine cleaning shops. Cleaners may use any power or
14 non-power tools to perform their work but may not perform maintenance of any
15 type. Cleaners will not be permitted to perform the work of higher-rated
16 classifications but, on Company option, cleaners' work may be performed by
17 higher-paid classifications of employees in the Company. It is recognized that the
18 stocking of aircraft with passenger service supplies is cleaners' work and that
19 cleaners may operate motor vehicles in connection with their assigned duties.

Now please show me where they are called Fleet Service.

 

[Kev3188]

If you look at the CBA, it is Mechanic and Related (cleaners) which are under AMFA, Mechanics and Cleaners are one craft and class per the NMB and have always had a seperate CBA then Fleet Service, which at NW is represented by the IAM and their CBA is ESSC.

Fleet Service are rampers, not cleaners, cleaners are cleaners, per class and craft.

From the AMFA CBA:

AGREEMENT between NORTHWEST AIRLINES, INC. And AIRCRAFT MECHANICS FRATERNAL ASSOCIATION
Technicians and Related Personnel



Now please show me where they are called Fleet Service.

700UW--

Call it a colloquialism?

Here at NW, cleaners were/are often referred to internally as fleet service, perhaps because NWA's "official" term for ramp agents is "Equipment Service."

You, myself, and Bagboy are all correct as to who belongs to what union/classification. It's just a matter of semantics.