United & US Airways?

[Art at ISP]

To quote USA320Pilot:

"7. I believe the combined company would be called United, the corproate headquarters would be located in Chicago, and US Airways' "executive suite would run the combined company."

This would be the ultimate disaster--a management team ALREADY proven clueless and seriously out of their league, not to mention untrustworthy, would drown if chosen to run a combined UA/US. They can't even manage what they have now.....almost 4 years later the merger is still not complete, due to the pilots' labor situation.

On the other hand, I see a possible different scenario. I see US and UA being broken up, with the valuable pieces going to CO, and the rest, well, who knows? The only hope for ANY kind of situation would be to have a management team that is CAPABLE of and has the desire of RUNNING AN AIRLINE and NOT running by spreadsheet--and we know that Parker, Kirby, Tilton and company have neither the ability or the desire to do so.

As I said, this is pure conjecture on my part, but I see a CO picking at the pieces of US and UA, and becoming a powerhouse with Larry Kellner at the helm. He and his team run rings around Parker, Kirby, Tilton and company.

But that's just my 2 cents......

 

[hp_fa]

HP_FA,
This is strictly opinion and I have no inside information regarding what may or may not occur in the future.

Thanks for the reply. It was interesting.

 

[Pacemaker]

Labor issues, specifically the pilots, killed UA/US 1, and played a major role in killing UA/US 2 & US/DL. True, labor does not technically have the power to kill a possible UA/US merge but the labor armageddon implicit in such an attempt is a large deterrent to anyone contemplating such a deal. To be frank, I seriously doubt anyone wants to touch US right now with a 10-foot pole, however appealing it may look on paper.

Anyway, they don't seem too worked up over it on the usaviation United board. Last post on the topic, April 29. Which has always been the pattern. Everyone at US talking up (hoping for?) the next UA merger.

 

[hp_fa]

On the other hand, I see a possible different scenario. I see US and UA being broken up, with the valuable pieces going to CO, and the rest, well, who knows? The only hope for ANY kind of situation would be to have a management team that is CAPABLE of and has the desire of RUNNING AN AIRLINE and NOT running by spreadsheet--and we know that Parker, Kirby, Tilton and company have neither the ability or the desire to do so.

As I said, this is pure conjecture on my part, but I see a CO picking at the pieces of US and UA, and becoming a powerhouse with Larry Kellner at the helm. He and his team run rings around Parker, Kirby, Tilton and company.

Art,

That is also a valid point. However, in 320's defense I did ask the question and I did ask for his speculation of what he foresees so I am accepting that as his conjecture regarding the potential speculative future.

In fairness, I have found over time that some of the stuff he discussed back in the 2003-2005 timeframe had more substance to it than I had attributed to it at the time. Did it make either of us correct? Probably not. But I have discovered that his insight then was, in my opinion, more insightful and correct than I had given him credit for at the time. He has always gravitated to some form of United transaction at some point. That hasn't happened as of yet, but I am willing to consider his words with more weight than I had in the past.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Did you miss the Wellington Management thread he started?

 

[hp_fa]

To be frank, I seriously doubt anyone wants to touch US right now with a 10-foot pole, however appealing it may look on paper.

I tend to agree, however I wanted to ask USA320Pilot about his crystal ball view and he provided it.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

To quote USA320Pilot:

"7. I believe the combined company would be called United, the corproate headquarters would be located in Chicago, and US Airways' "executive suite would run the combined company."

This would be the ultimate disaster--a management team ALREADY proven clueless and seriously out of their league, not to mention untrustworthy, would drown if chosen to run a combined UA/US. They can't even manage what they have now.

This.

The people at United will look back on Tilton's tenure as "The good old days" if Parker and his ilk gain control of it.

 

[hp_fa]

Two general questions.

How many BOD seats does labor hold?

What percent of United is owned and/or controlled by labor?

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think UA's bankruptcy wiped out the ESOP labor holdings, although there may be some individual employees who have purchased the new (UAUA) stock. Much like East, there also may have been UAUA stock options issued to members of some unions in exchange for the concessions but as long as the strike price is above the market price they're unlikely to be exercised (I've got 100 LCC options priced at $56.90 I'll give you).

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

I think UA's bankruptcy wiped out the ESOP labor holdings, although there may be some individual employees who have purchased the new (UAUA) stock. Much like East, there also may have been UAUA stock options issued to members of some unions in exchange for the concessions but as long as the strike price is above the market price they're unlikely to be exercised (I've got 100 LCC options priced at $56.90 I'll give you).

Jim

BoeingBoy's comments are correct. The ESOP was eliminated in bankruptcy. I think, but I do not remember for sure and I would have to do some research to find out, the United employees may have received some stock options, but they're not enough to gain control of the company or influence the Board.

United is now a publicly owned company with its BOD's fully in charge and accountable to the shareholders.

Regards,

USA320pilot

 

[767jetz]

Although it's been widely rumored that Tilton wants outs and DP wants to be the CEO in any post merger airline so anything is possible.

Wow, I can't believe this topic is making another go around the circuit.

Let me just say that the above rumor is VERY inaccurate. Tilton made it clear many times that he wants to be in the driver's seat of any merger. This was actually one of the sticking points during the talks with Continental and Delta.

Trust me, the employees would like nothing better than to get rid of Tilton. We've been actively trying to oust him for a long time. If he really wanted out, believe me when I say he would be gone.

IMO, there is a much more likely chance of merger talks to resume between CO and UA if the economy improves. When CO walked away from the last merger it was only days away from the trigger being pulled. Believe it or not the pilots even had a tentative seniority list agreed to. Since then UA management has been doing everything they can to "clean things up" for CO. They are shrinking the fleet, furloughing, and moving up the ladder in on time performance. Keep in mind that they are also aligning operations with CO, not just US Air.

The current moves by US and UA are nothing more than Star Alliance partners trying to work together more efficiently.

 

[hp_fa]

The current moves by US and UA are nothing more than Star Alliance partners trying to work together more efficiently.

I tend to agree.

 

[flybynite]

Wow, I can't believe this topic is making another go around the circuit.

Let me just say that the above rumor is VERY inaccurate. Tilton made it clear many times that he wants to be in the driver's seat of any merger. This was actually one of the sticking points during the talks with Continental and Delta.

Trust me, the employees would like nothing better than to get rid of Tilton. We've been actively trying to oust him for a long time. If he really wanted out, believe me when I say he would be gone.

IMO, there is a much more likely chance of merger talks to resume between CO and UA if the economy improves. When CO walked away from the last merger it was only days away from the trigger being pulled. Believe it or not the pilots even had a tentative seniority list agreed to. Since then UA management has been doing everything they can to "clean things up" for CO. They are shrinking the fleet, furloughing, and moving up the ladder in on time performance. Keep in mind that they are also aligning operations with CO, not just US Air.

The current moves by US and UA are nothing more than Star Alliance partners trying to work together more efficiently.

Ditto.

 

[WCT]

Whether there be another merger, possibly United, so be it!
I think our CSR's have made substantial strides on the Qik system, and the system works well.
I also want to commend our Mechanics across the country, previous AWA and US East guys, you are awesome men and women!!!
I have noticed less problems all around, and things are getting fixed in a timely manner, and OUR A/C are looking better in shape day in and out!! Thank You all for your hard work!!! Great Job!! Much appreciatted! 🙂

 

[WCT]

I'm ever so sorry to rain on your parade, however you've publicly admitted that CSR's given enough time can indeed polish a turd.

Go to the EDS website and there is NO MENTION of SHARES! They earn MILLIONS from US and CO to support SHARES and don't you think if it was a true GDS with superior capabilities that EDS would be pimping it all over the place?

That is your opinion! I think our agents have done a wonderful job with the little tools given since the merger, and they deserve credit. I am not a publicly advocating the computer system in place, Qik. I am applauding our Airline and all the agents for adjusting and making the transition after all this time. They deserve a lot of credit. Stop boxing me in a corner! I am complimenting a positive change.