Us Airways' True Problem Created By

[nycbusdriver]

PITbull, they sure liked those raises and better benefits. Yet still trashed and continue to trash the company. What a shander!

You just don't get it.

THAT was the problem.

Piedmont used agents interchangeably for ground and customer service. Much more efficient.

80% of those agents were part-time and they were entitled to flight benefits ONLY! This seems draconian, but people were lined up around the block whenever Piedmont had op-enings for these jobs? Why? Because of the probablility that they would eventually get to be "full-time" agents at a vibrant, growing airline that treasured its employees almost as much as it treasured its customers. Almost ALL of those 80% part-timers became full-timers at the time of the merger due to Colodny's edict. HAVE YOU ANY IDEA what that alone did to the cost structure? How did the agents feel about it? You're right! They felt great! Who wouldn't love an immediate raise with full benefits? It's not what they had signed on for, but after all, Ed knew "how to run an airline." Or so he thought.

At Piedmont, the flight attendants worked different (less costly) duty rigs than the pilots. (PI and AA pilots had identical duty rigs before the merger.) Like the agent jobs, folks were lined up to get a job as a PI flight attendant. The F/A costs were considerably less at Piedmont due to this efficiency, and the fact that the hourly rate at PI had been less. On the date of the merger, the 5,000 or so PI F/A's immediately became that much more costly to the company. Again, Colodny's lack of foresight.

Colodny thought that the yields of the fortress northeast would never change. They were headed downhill from the moment People Express showed up in the early 1980's, but Colodny just could not see the handwriting on the wall. He put together cost structures that were outrageous, thinking the well could never dry up. What we have now is Colodny's legacy and no one else's.

 

[PITbull]

Bob,

Ed Colodney had more vision and leadership skills than all of the CEOs put dtogether. That's no assumption...I lived it. He was not self serving and held that position for decades. But you wouldn't know now would you. And folks who make ass-umptions make ass-es out of themselves.

No matter who was CEO in former times, no one has a crystall ball to predict the economic trends and how globilization would effect those decisions going forward. If folks had that ability to see into the future, well hell, we'd all be billionaires. Hindsight is always 20-20.

The real issue, and present day, is we have a CEO who was given more from labor, Bk, ATSB, alliances, vendors, creditors, investors, AND STILL CAN'T GET IT TOGETHER. All the hindsight, insight, foresight excuses in the world can't fix this. These guys are not the right folks, but we are stuck with them and now we need to see if we can at least make this "new plan" of theirs work. That takes again trust, that we just don't have for them, and any moves toward building bridges has not been outlined as of late from this mangement.

So, blindly we go.

 

[PITbull]

nybusdriver,

Earth to busdriver, earth to busdriver....don't know what planet you are living on, but I gather it is as cold as hell where your at and the frost must be blinding....

People's Express only lasted 6 years and is g-o-n-e! Hey, 15 years later.... we are still here and kicking....!!!!

 

[nycbusdriver]

" I don't get it? When it came to making money (at the time) there was no contest, usair made a lot of money. "

US Air was losing money at the time they bought profitable Piedmont Airlines...probably due to their whole PSA purchase fiasco the year before.

At the time, USAir was fat with cash and the only carrier that could buy Piedmont without anti-competitive objections from the U.S. government.

Interestingly, Wall Street issued it's own verdict on the mess only a few years after the purchase. PI stock was purchased entirely with cash and the transaction was worth around $1.6 billion. In two years, Colodny et al. managed to get the market cap of the entire shootin' match down to less than half of that figure.

 

[nycbusdriver]

nybusdriver,

Earth to busdriver, earth to busdriver....don't know what planet you are living on, but I gather it is as cold as hell where your at the the frost is blinding....

People's Express only lasted 6 years and is g-o-n-e! Hey, 15 years later.... we are still here and kicking....!!!!

As usual, you missed the point. PeopleExpress was the handwriting on the wall. Many low cost carriers have come and gone in the interim, but the cancer never has gone away, has it, Pitbull?

When PeopleExpress went under (they actually still are here...it's now called Continental Airlines...and they will be here LONG after USAirways kicks the bucket), were they the last LCC to try the northeast? Have you been doing a Rip Van Winkle for the past 20 years? Is there oxygen on that planet where you live?

 

[PITbull]

Oh and NY busdriver,

In 1998 the stock rose to $84, how much was your shares worth then. Don't think you were bad mouthing Colodney or Wolf at that time were you chip, i mean buddy, good pal.

 

[PITbull]

nybusdriver,

Earth to busdriver, earth to busdriver....don't know what planet you are living on, but I gather it is as cold as hell where your at the the frost is blinding....

People's Express only lasted 6 years and is g-o-n-e! Hey, 15 years later.... we are still here and kicking....!!!!

As usual, you missed the point. PeopleExpress was the handwriting on the wall. Many low cost carriers have come and gone in the interim, but the cancer never has gone away, has it, Pitbull?

When PeopleExpress went under (they actually still are here...it's now called Continental Airlines...and they will be here LONG after USAirways kicks the bucket), were they the last LCC to try the northeast? Have you been doing a Rip Van Winkle for the past 20 years? Is there oxygen on that planet where you live?

nybusdriver,

Hey, you think you can sell me one of them there "crystall balls" you got?

Sure would like to know whose going to be around and whose not so I can gather up some shares of stock and be as wealthy as YOU.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Oh and NY busdriver,

In 1998 the stock rose to $84, how much was your shares worth then. Don't think you were bad mouthing Colodney or Wolf at that time were you chip, i mean buddy, good pal.

Well, when it comes to investing, I'll admit that I'm far from the brightest bulb in the box, but call Warren Buffet and get his take on USAirways and the Colodny/Schofield team.

 

[PITbull]

Well old Warren didn't jump ship in 1998, cause he was sure hope'en for a deal with United when the rest of us hadn't a "clue". He also was missing your "crystal ball" and thought there was more juice in the turnip. When the merger collapsed in July of 2001, he probably kicked himself from here to "bang la desh".....LOL....

 

[nycbusdriver]

nybusdriver,

Hey, you think you can sell me one of them there "crystall balls" you got?

Sure would like to know whose going to be around and whose not so I can gather up some shares of stock and be as wealthy as YOU.

I doubt I can help you, Pitbull.

You still think PeopleExpress went out of business, and somehow we are better off than the remnants of that operation.

Case in point. This is at least one pilot that I know of at USAirways who is within 100 numbers of furlough. He was a PeopleExpress pilot, and chose to leave. His classmates at PeopleExpress are now 777 captains at Continental. Now, tell me how we are better off than those poor PeopleExpress employees?

 

[700UW]

When PeopleExpress went under (they actually still are here...it's now called Continental Airlines...and they will be here LONG after USAirways kicks the bucket), were they the last LCC to try the northeast? Have you been doing a Rip Van Winkle for the past 20 years? Is there oxygen on that planet where you live?

No Continental Airlines was around before People Express, your information was totally wrong.

From CAL's Web Page:

1934
Continental Airlines was founded over 60 years ago by Walter T. Varney and his partner Louis Mueller as Varney Speed Lines. On July 15, 1934, Continental's first flight was flown by its precursor Varney Speed Lines on a 530-mile route from Pueblo, Colorado to El Paso, Texas with stops in Las Vegas, Santa Fe and Albuquerque, New Mexico. That same year, Varney ceded control to Mueller.

So tell me how CAL is Peoples since CAL was founded in 1934?

From the History of People Express:

People Express unofficially began on January 7, 1980 when Don Burr submitted his resignation from Texas Air to Frank Lorenzo. He, along with his secretary Melrose Dawsey left to form their own carrier. Almost immediately, they were joined by Gerry Gitner, another associate from Texas Air. Using their own cash, they began making plans for the new carrier and by fall had come up with the name People Express. Burr was quite interested in creating a positive working environment, one where people would be motivated as owners, not just employees. All employees would be required take stock in the company as part of their compensation, and everyone (including pilots and executives) would be cross-utilized to help keep costs down. There would be no secretaries or assistants -- everyone would be a manager.

Just three weeks after the Frontier shutdown, the agreement to sell People Express to Texas Air was announced on September 15, 1986. Texas Air formally approved the deal on December 31, and plans were announced for the full integration of not only People Express, but also New York Air and four commuter carriers into Continental on February 1, 1987.



Don't let the facts get in your way

 

[PITbull]

PITbull,

Instead of insulting what others post regarding Mr Colodny, why not give us YOUR assessment of what went wrong and who is to blame?

Since you were indeed "There" and I and others weren't, I think your historical perspective would be much more interesting than your hysterical reactions!

But then you'd have to actually think before you flame. Just a thought prior to grocery shopping. Even PineyBoob needs to eat and Cockroach food is hard to find.

Before you exit mr. Bob...


In my novel estimation and recollection...

It started with the merger collapse and the pension issue. What threw U into a hole with the pilots...IS UNITED. When all that merger crap was going on, United management was busy giving the United pilots increases to their heart content just to keep labor gleeful. If someone throws a bunch of money at you Bob, even your company, I don't believe, just from reading how you describe yourself as "all-about-me", would throw that money back at your boss and say..."nah, you keep it, for just in case"....

Our pilots had Pariety plus 1%. That meant an instant increases according to the paritey premise, and that meant trouble for the pensions and liability obligations. AT the same time 9/11 hit and security issues, long lines, and decrease in travelers, didn't help.

The RJ issue was an issue thought up by Gangwal NOT Siegel. And when the merger collapsed, he then as "plan B" appraoched all the unions in a slide presentation...I know, I was there! (I still have the "slides" in Hardback.

The ATSB was just an excuse for this management to hammer the pilots to get to terminate their pensions in BK, BK also helped to free U of unwanted debt from the 90s. The yo-yo "team" threw in the rest of labor and "sicked" their labor buster on them to bring the wages and benfits down to LCC, gutt the agreements so they can increase shareholder value, sell off the airline, and jump ship as instant millionaires all in a couple of years.

My estimation? You got it! We've been infected by the new Lorenzo offsprings. And pandora's box opened with us. We either close the box and contain the evil, or it spreads like the "cancer" you speak of.

 

[nycbusdriver]

700UW -

You are correct. I didn't mean to imply that CO was derived from PeopleExpress. Far from it, CO was around for ages before PE came about. But PE did not go under, as Pitbull implied. It was absorbed in the Lorenzo mess which has survived as CO and flourished under Gordon Bethune...the guy to whom St. Edwin Colodny gave the boot.

 

[PITbull]

nybusdriver,

Hey, you think you can sell me one of them there "crystall balls" you got?

Sure would like to know whose going to be around and whose not so I can gather up some shares of stock and be as wealthy as YOU.

I doubt I can help you, Pitbull.

You still think PeopleExpress went out of business, and somehow we are better off than the remnants of that operation.

Case in point. This is at least one pilot that I know of at USAirways who is within 100 numbers of furlough. He was a PeopleExpress pilot, and chose to leave. His classmates at PeopleExpress are now 777 captains at Continental. Now, tell me how we are better off than those poor PeopleExpress employees?

NYbusdriver,

If you are playing "riddle me this"...and you are the pilot that's now flyiing at Continnetal, then you know nothing of our airline and its mangement. Second, if you are not and you are near the bottom, I can fully understand your desparation, especially if you are sitting left seat and maybe going to the right.

 

[700UW]

But PE was getting ready to go out of business, their BOD made them put the company up for sale as they were bleeding badly.