US-East Observation Rides In Full Force

[PITbull]

Travelpro has the right idea. If the other main cabin FA's don't want to do it or help, it is on their head. If there is a ghost rider on board they will figure the situation out and make the appropriate notations about who did and did not do their job. Just do your job and don't argue with any folks that want to do as little as humanly possible.

LCC's issue, to me, is different. Lcc's issue has to deal with not liking the policy that is being dictated by management. Travelpro is trying to comply with policy.

FWIW, the only reasons that HP management really listened to for service failures were because of turbulence or inflight medical reasons, and they would be documented by Irregs or other forms of reports. Even in those cases you were supposed to make a good faith effort to comply with normal service policy, but they know that after and hour with the seatbelt sign on there is the classic isse of getting carts out or allowing free access to the lavs without cart issues.

Ghost ride observations are that...observations. They may make the notations and take that information to Inflight BUT...they cannot write the f/a up, nor can the company repremand the f/a. All management check rides must be announced before the flight commences.

I wish they would ghost ride more on the Republic flights. The two I have been on recently have been embarrassing and lacked professionalism in many areas. (appearance, and especially announcements.) The operation there REALLY needs to be watched closely. :angry:

Republic Airways is a completely different airline.

 

[hp_fa]

Ghost ride observations are that...observations. They may make the notations and take that information to Inflight BUT...they cannot write the f/a up, nor can the company repremand the f/a.

At West they can and will ask you to explain the comments and why you didn't comply with procedure.

 

[2clippedwings]

Republic Airways is a completely different airline.
[/quote]
But Republic represents itself as USAirways (Express)as does so many others. Ghost riders might offer a VERY interesting perspective to Doug and friends.
Look what happened when finally presented with the results of the outsourced rez work? Brought back in house.

 

[PITbull]

At West they can and will ask you to explain the comments and why you didn't comply with procedure.

That's fine. If the company calls you in the office for any reason, you must comply...otherwise its "insubordination".

BUT, again, you don't go without a union rep, and whatever the ghost rider reported, the data gathered CANNOT be put in your file, given as a warning, or held against the f/a for any reason as some kind of discipline whether it be DCP or operational discipline.

 

[EMBFA]

that is one thing im dreading about going back.. lazy f/as who dont want to do the already simple service. "oh we dont need to do an arrival service" or they wait and hour or so to do the first one. on transatlantic they would skip out on duty free or just walk down the aisle holding up the magazine like anyone knows what that means. i like time to relax but if its a long flight then id like things to do. that was nice on the 170 everyone wanted to do service... at least coffe or water and present the bob meals in a nice way... or full can. now thats bad too because its not consistent but they do need to upgrade service a bit... even if its just walk throughs with juice and water to be a presence in the cabin and see if anyone needs something.

even going through with water a couple times is appreciated by the customers, they even comment on how attentive the crew was and what a great flight. you can make a little look like alot if you are good. same with walking through with pillows and blankets even if they dont need them its something they remember. i just dont understand f/as who dont act like they want to be f/as. they are at every airline, we have some i wish we could get rid of!!! go work in an office!!! the company does need to be more specific and make people stick to it. its your job and its already easy. ive worked it all even CSD and purser, and it is NOT rocket science.

 

[sharktooth]

Ghost ride observations are that...observations. They may make the notations and take that information to Inflight BUT...they cannot write the f/a up, nor can the company repremand the f/a. All management check rides must be announced before the flight commences.

Are you saying that "management" cannot trace the crew on the "writeup"? If so, what is to prevent a "writeup" or "repremand" (sic)? Perhaps you've been drinking the kool-aid a little too much?

Republic Airways is a completely different airline.

There are several lawsuits over that very same issue and it looks as if that will be a completely incorrect statement, not that it matters to you.

 

[longing4piedmont]

That's fine. If the company calls you in the office for any reason, you must comply...otherwise its "insubordination".

BUT, again, you don't go without a union rep, and whatever the ghost rider reported, the data gathered CANNOT be put in your file, given as a warning, or held against the f/a for any reason as some kind of discipline whether it be DCP or operational discipline.

You are no doubt correct about this procedure, but I have a real problem with it. If an F/A is not following procedures, whether service or safety, in my mind the company should be able to correct it. To hide behind the union is simply wrong.

I may be missing something here and therefor await your explanation of why the company should not be able to use this information.

 

[EMBFA]

There are several lawsuits over that very same issue and it looks as if that will be a completely incorrect statement, not that it matters to you.

Midatlantic is the one with the lawsuits... that was the fictional "division" of mainline with mainline employees.... Republic is the company that bought the Midatlantic planes but didnt take the MDA employees.

Republic is a seperate company they are like outsourcing to India ... of course the passengers see us airways express so think that US Airways now hires teenager flight attendants that play with the lights and run around the airplane and accidently inflate evacuation slides..

 

[bofie]

Tthe data gathered CANNOT be put in your file, given as a warning, or held against the f/a for any reason as some kind of discipline whether it be DCP or operational discipline.

What in the world is the point of the supervision then? Who else would report employees that aren't following procedure in a way that will go on their record and perhaps result in discipline?

 

[ClueByFour]

You are no doubt correct about this procedure, but I have a real problem with it. If an F/A is not following procedures, whether service or safety, in my mind the company should be able to correct it. To hide behind the union is simply wrong.

I may be missing something here and therefor await your explanation of why the company should not be able to use this information.

Roger that, and ditto.

 

[SegmentKing]

if they do ghost riders on Republic, there may be NO republic when the results are reported back to Doug Parker!!

 

[PITbull]

Are you saying that "management" cannot trace the crew on the "writeup"? If so, what is to prevent a "writeup" or "repremand" (sic)? Perhaps you've been drinking the kool-aid a little too much?
There are several lawsuits over that very same issue and it looks as if that will be a completely incorrect statement, not that it matters to you.

Sharky #2,

Let your husband answer these posts...your lack of intelligence is dripping. 🙄

Hopefully, the PHL f/as will wise up and throw you out.

You are no doubt correct about this procedure, but I have a real problem with it. If an F/A is not following procedures, whether service or safety, in my mind the company should be able to correct it. To hide behind the union is simply wrong.

I may be missing something here and therefor await your explanation of why the company should not be able to use this information.

Longing,

The company can request a meeting with the f/a, but all check-rides must be announced. This was negotiated many eons ago. The company cannot place a discipline in a file from a ghost rider. The pax are the guage. If a crew or f/a are not giving the service, they can write it up. AFA also has "professional standards", and f/as can write it up "professional standards" (ALPA has that too) and AFA will discuss the issues with the f/as. Peer pressure ususally brings negative work behavior in check.

The union cannot allow a mysterious write up from what the company may call a ghost rider to go in someones file. It allows the company to arbitrarely set an employee up for termination for reasons they can just create. Specifically if a supervisor doesn't like the f/a or to prevent discrimination by certain individuals. We've had these issues in the past.

Supervisors can check ride anytime and they must announce it when they come on board. If a crew or f/a are not permforming according to procedures, they can be disciplined. This type of discipline is called an "operational discipline" and not part of DCP.

 

[longing4piedmont]

PB

I guess I was not thinking of the discipline angle. My point was if something is not being done according to procedures as outlined in the manuals, the issue should be addressed. I come from the management school of addressing this type of problem with a straight forward conversation and with out the threat of discipline or punitive action.

Maybe that is why I’m a sales manager and not in the airline business. History has however taught me that a straight forward approach does work in most cases.

 

[PITbull]

Longing,

I agree.

However, in our business, the company looks to intimidate and terminate. We have supervisors that have no education or some kind of formal training in managment. They are ususally f/as that have applied for supervisor positions. If they "aszz wipe" than they got the job.

Many of them were inept and didn't know how to use good judgement, and tact when dealing with employees. Its not what you say but how you say it when trying to get a desired response or change in behavior. Many of the supervisors at that time did not have the talent to deal with employees or how to speak to employees other than condescending. Its an acquired skill to facilitate positive change in an employee's negative work pattern without threatening punishment. Especially during the time of concessions. Morale was bad and in retrospect, it might have been Jerry ordering the troops to strip the employees of self worth before the "kill". He just never anticipating me making BIG noise.

It became exhausting dealing with supervisors that were not talented in managing employees. Even the managers were poor.So, I dealt with the issues my way and went to the head of Labor Relations and not waste my argument or breath with lower managment. Bigger more broad issues, I would either call or write an e-mail to the CEO. He knew he either deal with me or read something negative in the morning paper.

Company got use to my MO and often times did agree with how certain issues SHOULD have been handled. I usally got the results and reasonability I sought on many issues. I use to write up certain supervisors for their stupidity and how poorly they handled the situation or the f/a. Heck, I would copy in all of managment and that supervisor and often times the entire labor coalition. The Inflight knew I was not going to deal with many of them, because I had no tolerance dealing with cracker jacks.

I was often despised by many in lower managment for jumping the ladder.

 

[Travelpro72]

I was often despised by many in lower managment for jumping the ladder.

If only we had someone like you with brains here today. I hope you realize how much many of us miss you.