US Pilot Labor Thread 10/19-10/26

[Kieran]

New week, new thread. Same rules as always.

Personal attacks get time off. No warning.

 

[fodase]

Well the story that management did not accept the list and told usapa that they already have a seniority list during negotiations is straight from people at the table with back up from the chief pilot's office. After watching the constant lying and caniving from the east leadership (both alpa and usapa) it's not surprising that the east pilots are once again in the dark. It is very telling that none of the usapa clowns repudiate the story, but hey what the easties don't know won't hurt them.

 

[Elevation]

Any guesses on what USAPA's next move will be without the list being recognized by Doug? When will they tell there members? Will everyone stop paying dues and just BK the union?

 

[ussnark]

Well the story that management did not accept the list and told usapa that they already have a seniority list during negotiations is straight from people at the table with back up from the chief pilot's office.

<sigh>

What people at what table? Company people?

and, "chief pilot's office"? Are you kidding? Their credibility, as a group, ranks lower than snail slime. I wonder how well they laugh (belly laugh, smirk?) at dealing with naive and inexperienced pilots.

Once again. Dougie cannot decide whether to "accept" a list anymore than you can decide whether to "accept" a subpoena. Should he choose to involve himself in union matters that way, I would imagine he would also be involving himself in federal matters as well, something I can only think he might wish to avoid. If I were a board member, I would be horrified if the representative of the board, the CEO, did so, the legal consequences of which could be devastating not just to the corporation, but my "estate" as well.

Wherever do you get the idea that DP would place his estate on the line to get you something you did not earn, anyway?

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

<sigh>


and, "chief pilot's office"? Are you kidding? Their credibility, as a group, ranks lower than snail slime. I wonder how well they laugh (belly laugh, smirk?) at dealing with naive and inexperienced pilots.

Speaking of naive and inexperienced pilots, here's an example of one of the east's finest hours (from the usap safety committee):

Recently we had a lengthy transatlantic flight delayed because of a maintenance issue that was not
placed in the logbook. Instead of a log entry, the inbound crew attempted to inform the outbound crew
of a maintenance issue by way of a note since the outbound flight wasn’t due out for about 5 hours.
The note was passed to the outbound Captain via a ramp agent supervisor after that agent had shown
the note to maintenance personnel and others. Since that Captain had now been advised by the note,
ramp agent supervisor, gate agent, and mechanics of a possible maintenance discrepancy he could not
accept the aircraft without a log entry and resultant sign off. Eventually the inbound Captain, who by
now was off duty, had to be contacted in order to legally document the discrepancy before the flight
could depart. Had that Captain been out of touch, his good intentions would have caused a cancellation
of a full European flight.

Oh, excuse me, this is how one of your experienced senior international fellows handles routine matters! Passing notes!! This is more like grammar school behavior. At least one out of the two Captain's involved knew what he was doing. My goodness, what are your lowly, domestic, inexperienced, and formerly furloughed drivers capable of?

By the way - your reference to chief pilots must refer only to the eastie desk drivers. Here in PHX, our chiefs are pilots first, chiefs second. They have earned a lot of respect and have been steadfast in their support of their line folks through-out this east-induced maelstrom. The westyz don't eat their own.

 

[cleardirect]

<sigh>

Once again. Dougie cannot decide whether to "accept" a list anymore than you can decide whether to "accept" a subpoena. Should he choose to involve himself in union matters that way, I would imagine he would also be involving himself in federal matters as well, something I can only think he might wish to avoid. If I were a board member, I would be horrified if the representative of the board, the CEO, did so, the legal consequences of which could be devastating not just to the corporation, but my "estate" as well.

Wherever do you get the idea that DP would place his estate on the line to get you something you did not earn, anyway?

What??? Please clarify. What do you mean

“Should he choose to involve himself in union mattersâ€￾

What union matters are you talking about? What federal matters are you talking about? What devastation to the corporation or estate?

 

[BottomFeeder]

Speaking of naive and inexperienced pilots, here's an example of one of the east's finest hours

Would that be Auto Brakes or Manual Braking? Your finest hour has been duly noted here at USAviation.

Nice blown tires Captian land her good.

 

[Atlantic]

Two West pilots being led off in cuffs in MIA comes to mind as well.

 

[ussnark]

By the way - your reference to chief pilots must refer only to the eastie desk drivers. Here in PHX, our chiefs are pilots first, chiefs second. They have earned a lot of respect and have been steadfast in their support of their line folks through-out this east-induced maelstrom. The westyz don't eat their own.

Not what I have heard, both from R-eal pilots and the FAA. Basically brown-nosers, always ready to help you westies paint the east personnel as the "enemy". They certainly know how to manipulate the inexperienced amongst you, yo baby! How does it feel to be a tool?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Once again. Dougie cannot decide whether to "accept" a list anymore than you can decide whether to "accept" a subpoena.

Is it not USAPA's position that seniority lives in the contract and is negotiable? Doesn't Dougie, or at least Scottie, have to sign the negotiated contract before it becomes valid? That would seem to mean that they are very involved in the seniority issue, at least according to USAPA.

Jim

 

[ussnark]

What??? Please clarify. What do you mean


What union matters are you talking about? What federal matters are you talking about? What devastation to the corporation or estate?

Ok, when you graduate from 8th grade, give us a call.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Is it not USAPA's position that seniority lives in the contract and is negotiable? Doesn't Dougie, or at least Scottie, have to sign the negotiated contract before it becomes valid? That would seem to mean that they are very involved in the seniority issue, at least according to USAPA.

Jim

And just why would the company want to get itself involved in this "crap throwing" contest? All they need to do is stand back and watch. As long as the solution is cost neutral, why would they care? In fact, I believe they've even said as much.

In fact, this is purely a union issue. Seniority is an issue to be resolved by the pilots. No where is management involved. The Nic was an ALPA solution. Now, the company is not dealing with ALPA.

I know it doesn't sit well with the ALPA "lifers", but that's the way it is. Your Schadenfreude is showing.

 

[cleardirect]

Ok, when you graduate from 8th grade, give us a call.

Oh right 8th grade. I asked for clarification and you insult me. Nice. Are you just spring loaded to insult?

Now could you please clarify what you were talking about? I am trying to understand what you are trying to say. However it was unclear.

Could you answer the question or do you prefer to insult.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Ahhh...someone else who doesn't believe that the company has to sign the contract for it to be binding - USAPA can just dictate terms. How's that working out?

Jim

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Ahhh...someone else who doesn't believe that the company has to sign the contract for it to be binding - USAPA can just dictate terms. How's that working out?

Jim

Is that why they call it "negotiating"? Oh, I never would have guessed. Tell me again why the company would even take sides on this? What would they stand to gain? Oh, I know. More lawsuits. Yea, that's a winner for them. That's what I'd be spending my money on if I were them.

Right now, they've got the pilot group right where they want them. No contract means no cost increase for them. I don't think that they even care that operations are still separate, as long as they are cheap enough. I, for one, don't think that the pilots figure one iota into the merger formula, should the opportunity arise. They can work around it. Once money becomes available, I still think it will happen.