USair denies AA pilots jumpseat...

[Topcat187]

It says that APFA owns the jump seat and decides who sits in it. Nice try.

 
 
Here is the actual language from the APFA CBA:
 
This will confirm that flight attendants traveling on a Class "D" space available pass may 
occupy an available flight attendant jump seat on a first come-first served basis, pursuant to 
the Company's administrative procedures.
 
This means that as an FA you can sit there, but that's all it says. The language does not keep anyone else from sitting in the FA jumpseat. If you notice this part (pursuant to the Company's administrative procedures.) It gives the company the ability to change the procedure as it sees fit, and basically makes the previous part of the agreement null and void if the company wants to change it.

 

[IORFA]

Here is the actual language from the APFA CBA:
 
This will confirm that flight attendants traveling on a Class "D" space available pass may 
occupy an available flight attendant jump seat on a first come-first served basis, pursuant to 
the Company's administrative procedures.
 
This means that as an FA you can sit there, but that's all it says. The language does not keep anyone else from sitting in the FA jumpseat. If you notice this part (pursuant to the Company's administrative procedures.) It gives the company the ability to change the procedure as it sees fit, and basically makes the previous part of the agreement null and void if the company wants to change it.

Why do you just pick and choose what sections you post? Why don't you post the other sections of the agreement? No problem, doesn't matter what you think. The ones that actually get to use the seat know what the deal is. You've just wasted time in my life that I will never get back. Be happy to know that you just graduated to my ignore list. Now a party of 3.

 

[blue collar]

If more mechanics read this, I'm sure you would find those seats on MEL more often so that you couldn't use it either.

 

[Bogey]

If more mechanics read this, I'm sure you would find those seats on MEL more often so that you couldn't use it either.

If you wonder why you are treated the way you are, read the childish and unprofessional statement you just posted.

I don't believe the pilots give a crap if you caught a ride up front, from what was stated above, it was the flight department. So why would you want to screw them?

 

[blue collar]

If you wonder why you are treated the way you are, read the childish and unprofessional statement you just posted.
I don't believe the pilots give a crap if you caught a ride up front, from what was stated above, it was the flight department. So why would you want to screw them?

It was directed towards the fa's response above mine. As far as childish comments, your colleagues are tops at that. Ever read the US pilot thread?

 

[Topcat187]

Why do you just pick and choose what sections you post? Why don't you post the other sections of the agreement? No problem, doesn't matter what you think. The ones that actually get to use the seat know what the deal is. You've just wasted time in my life that I will never get back. Be happy to know that you just graduated to my ignore list. Now a party of 3.

Again, if you have some contractul language that you feel I left out, please enlighten us.

I posted the whole letter relating to the fa jumpseat, nothing was left out.

 

[Toothy Grin]

I would prefer that the jumpseat be for flight attendants only.
 
I will relate the following partial event that happened when I was jumpseating...basically I was the jumpseater standing around in the back galley during boarding with the galley fa...both lavs are occupied and people are in the aisle...when all of the sudden a passenger comes back gasping for breath and starts to collapse. The working fa is now struggling to get the pax into a jumpseat, I am pushing curious people back and yelling at them to leave so I can get to an 02 bottle. The working fa manages to get the pax into a jumpseat while I'm on my knees grabbing for a bottle and yelling at people to move out of the area.  ...the situation went on and on, but basically the 'jumpseater' stepped in and saved the day. Passengers come back to the galley and collapse more often than you think. What would you do? A fa jumpseater would don gloves and jump right in to help, furthermore, they would know what to do. 
 
You know this industry and you know that the galley areas are work areas and often times the only place we have to work on reviving a person, resolving disputes and handling many other events that take place. These events may not happen every flight, but when they do, we only get one chance to get it right or someone could be injured, hopefully not fatally.  From my perspective, the last thing I want is to have someone standing around taking up space.  It is safer for all concerned if those persons whom occupy an "unused" jumpseat are those people whom actually work in that area. If I need help, I want to be able to say, "grab an 02"...I don't want to have to explain where it is located. I'd like whomever is back there to have a general sense of how things flow in an emergency or prep or medical event because time does matter.
 
I'm sorry that the rules don't allow for what you see as a simple courtesy, but I believe the reasons for it come down to safety. We are trained to stay in a zone of safety, having non essential personnel in the galley creates a distraction and could negatively affect an outcome that needs to end on a good note. My having to tell you to do something or how to do something if you were jumpseating is very different from having a fa jumpseater telling me during an event what they are doing (calling medlink, captain) and my immediate understanding of what they are doing and why.
 
I hope you will understand.

 

[Topcat187]

I would prefer that the jumpseat be for flight attendants only.
 
I will relate the following partial event that happened when I was jumpseating...basically I was the jumpseater standing around in the back galley during boarding with the galley fa...both lavs are occupied and people are in the aisle...when all of the sudden a passenger comes back gasping for breath and starts to collapse. The working fa is now struggling to get the pax into a jumpseat, I am pushing curious people back and yelling at them to leave so I can get to an 02 bottle. The working fa manages to get the pax into a jumpseat while I'm on my knees grabbing for a bottle and yelling at people to move out of the area.  ...the situation went on and on, but basically the 'jumpseater' stepped in and saved the day. Passengers come back to the galley and collapse more often than you think. What would you do? A fa jumpseater would don gloves and jump right in to help, furthermore, they would know what to do. 
 
You know this industry and you know that the galley areas are work areas and often times the only place we have to work on reviving a person, resolving disputes and handling many other events that take place. These events may not happen every flight, but when they do, we only get one chance to get it right or someone could be injured, hopefully not fatally.  From my perspective, the last thing I want is to have someone standing around taking up space.  It is safer for all concerned if those persons whom occupy an "unused" jumpseat are those people whom actually work in that area. If I need help, I want to be able to say, "grab an 02"...I don't want to have to explain where it is located. I'd like whomever is back there to have a general sense of how things flow in an emergency or prep or medical event because time does matter.
 
I'm sorry that the rules don't allow for what you see as a simple courtesy, but I believe the reasons for it come down to safety. We are trained to stay in a zone of safety, having non essential personnel in the galley creates a distraction and could negatively affect an outcome that needs to end on a good note. My having to tell you to do something or how to do something if you were jumpseating is very different from having a fa jumpseater telling me during an event what they are doing (calling medlink, captain) and my immediate understanding of what they are doing and why.
 
I hope you will understand.

I respect all opinions, but the fact is the extra jumpseater is just that, an extra. Now if you were a doctor in a sterile environment performing regular surgery, I would see your point. Another scenario could be a passenger grabs the FA and the non FA guy sitting in the extra seat is able to restrain him, and actually help you. So despite the many scenarios, I dont really agree with you.

 

[john john]

Piedmont captains use to denied AA pilots jumpseat all the time. AA was late to the ideal of interline reciprocal flight deck jumpseat.

 

[Mach85ER]

Piedmont captains use to denied AA pilots jumpseat all the time. AA was late to the ideal of interline reciprocal flight deck jumpseat.

 
 
Yup.
 
AA jumpseats for other carriers happened with the 1991 contract.
 
An AA pilot riding on another carrier's jumpseat only did so at the good graces of the Captain.
 
Some did, some didn't. Fair enough.
 
 
FYI,
 
     Common courtesy seems to be lacking amongst some pilot and FA jumpseat riders. Even if issued a seat in back, it is polite to introduce one's self and ask for a ride, at a minimum to the #1 FA if the pilot's are busy or not interested. Any OAL crewmembers traveling on jumpseat passes should make themselves aware to the Cockpit and Cabin crew.

 

[eolesen]

Fixed your post...

Common courtesy seems to be lacking amongst some pilot and FA jumpseat riders. Even if issued a seat in back, it is polite to introduce one's self and ask for a ride, at a minimum to the #1 FA if the pilot's are busy or not interested. Any OAL crewmembers traveling on jumpseat passes should make themselves aware to the Cockpit and Cabin crew.

 

[Mach85ER]

E.
 
I mentioned "some". The very large majority are great and thankful for the rides. As we should be. It is still a good bennie.

 

[RJcasualty]

I consider my AE FA JS privilege on AA as my ticket to work and vacation as needed. Without it, I'm toast. Occasionally, we'll get an HI6 reminding us of our responsibilities as jumpseaters--- obviously the result of some colleague's non-adherence to the guidelines. I always cringe seeing these reminders because the privilege is only a pen stroke from outright revocation. AA crews have been unfailingly welcoming and I do my best to keep scarce in a busy galley. If the working FA's are busy in the aisle, I'll gladly fulfill pax requests if they approach the galley. 'Nuff said?  ;-)

 

[usabusdriver]

Read paragraph (c) 3. That's where it says mechanics are authorized, since mechanics have airmen certs.

 
 
Hey, I didn't make the interpretation.  Mechanics are not considered airmen nor crewmembers, ipso facto cannot occupy a flight deck jumpseat.  C(3) really deals with admission to the flight deck as a seat in the passenger cabin is required.
 
Mechanics must have a specific requirement (job duties related to the flight they are jumpseating on) to occupy a flight deck jumpseat. (no seat in the cabin) a(3)(i)(ii)( B)
 
At US mechanics are issued a specific jumpseat authorization letter when required to occupy a flight deck jumpseat.

 

[1AA]

We have airmen certification ratings by the FAA. AIRFRAME and POWERPLANT. Dispatchers have FDJ privileges. At aa certain board members can fly FDJ. Your explanation makes no sense.
 
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/form/faa8610-2.pdf
 
Go to page 3. Read it and hopefully you will get a better understanding on certificated airmen.
 
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/Charles_taylor/