USAirways and TPG may make Joint bid for AA

[etops1]

Don't let your bitterness guide your future, but if you can't you should leave AA before your hate consumes you.

I don't work for AA .. At least not yet..

 

[johnny kat]

WorldTraveler, on 02 June 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

except I am not in the industry... but doesn't mean I haven't learned a few things, including basic business fundamentals.
This is US' last gasp... the implications if they fail to acquire AA are enormous. They will drop to an unsustainably small size on the east coast, will have even further oversized hubs using way too many small RJs to be cost efficient compared to DL and WN, and AA as well if they succeed at obtaining a large fleet of 100 seaters, Add in that US' market position in the top east coast markets continues to erode - the slot deal only hastened the process - and it isn't hard to see why US' defenders are so desperate to make an AA acquisition work.
.
Problem is that they can't answer the question as to HOW a US takeover of AA will yield better economics for AMR creditors or even if US borrows the money to pay off the lenders, a better deal for those lenders compared to what they could get dealing with AA directly.

You aren't in the industry???? Lets leave it at a don't ask-don't tell scenario. You definitely know "the formula" that works in corporate affairs.

US continues to cry merger and the only gain is that their stocks go up. I find it laughable that everyone except US saw a slot swap failure waiting to happen, The only US defenders are those who have no grasp with logic and reality, also known as the US employees.

They can't answer the HOW because the lemmings can only see a cliff they are running towards but can't see the doomsday outcome that follows.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Well actually US management is telling us exactly why a merger is in the best interests of all AA/US employees. And they are making a very compelling case. How rude to refer to the employees as lemmings. No one in the airline industry knows better the pitfalls of failure than the US employees. It is immoral to suggest that the employees of US should not try and better their lives through better wages and long term career prospects via a merger if that is what it takes.

WT, the 26 billion dollar debt crisis at Delta would keep me up at all hours too, if I were in DL management. It is only logical that DL would not want to see a US/AA merger. Doug Parker has shown in vivid detail how the combined entity would over shadow DL. By being the number one carrier on the east coast, number one in the midwest, and number three in the western us. The new AA would probably have alot less debt coming out of BK with a merger partner. It would appear DL paid a premium for NWA. Make no mistake about it AA will be a fierce competitor with lower costs than DL and UAL. You can post all the doubt you can muster on this board but none of what you say passes muster in the eyes of the employees, creditors, bondholders and US management. The simple fact is if this merger happens it will be Delta that is hurt the most.

It is true that if a merger with AA does not happen then US will have to come up with yet another competitive response to industry conditions. It is naive to think US will stand idly by and wait to be liquidated. It will take many twists and turns but US and the valuable slots will be utilized in some capacity whether through merger or asset sales to increase value. The outright liquidation scenario is one that only those outside the industry see as happening. If US was going to shut down it would have already done so.

Signals, I am not sure what your beef is. Maybe you were fired by USAirways or something.

 

[wings396]

To make it short and simple, WT wants to get back on with Delta after leaving them a few years ago, and he fears for his brothers job at AA.....

 

[signals]

WorldTraveler, on 02 June 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

except I am not in the industry... but doesn't mean I haven't learned a few things, including basic business fundamentals.
This is US' last gasp... the implications if they fail to acquire AA are enormous. They will drop to an unsustainably small size on the east coast, will have even further oversized hubs using way too many small RJs to be cost efficient compared to DL and WN, and AA as well if they succeed at obtaining a large fleet of 100 seaters, Add in that US' market position in the top east coast markets continues to erode - the slot deal only hastened the process - and it isn't hard to see why US' defenders are so desperate to make an AA acquisition work.
.
Problem is that they can't answer the question as to HOW a US takeover of AA will yield better economics for AMR creditors or even if US borrows the money to pay off the lenders, a better deal for those lenders compared to what they could get dealing with AA directly.

You aren't in the industry???? Lets leave it at a don't ask-don't tell scenario. You definitely know "the formula" that works in corporate affairs.

US continues to cry merger and the only gain is that their stocks go up. I find it laughable that everyone except US saw a slot swap failure waiting to happen, The only US defenders are those who have no grasp with logic and reality, also known as the US employees.

They can't answer the HOW because the lemmings can only see a cliff they are running towards but can't see the doomsday outcome that follows.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Well actually US management is telling us exactly why a merger is in the best interests of all AA/US employees. And they are making a very compelling case. How rude to refer to the employees as lemmings. No one in the airline industry knows better the pitfalls of failure than the US employees. It is immoral to suggest that the employees of US should not try and better their lives through better wages and long term career prospects via a merger if that is what it takes.

WT, the 26 billion dollar debt crisis at Delta would keep me up at all hours too, if I were in DL management. It is only logical that DL would not want to see a US/AA merger. Doug Parker has shown in vivid detail how the combined entity would over shadow DL. By being the number one carrier on the east coast, number one in the midwest, and number three in the western us. The new AA would probably have alot less debt coming out of BK with a merger partner. It would appear DL paid a premium for NWA. Make no mistake about it AA will be a fierce competitor with lower costs than DL and UAL. You can post all the doubt you can muster on this board but none of what you say passes muster in the eyes of the employees, creditors, bondholders and US management. The simple fact is if this merger happens it will be Delta that is hurt the most.

It is true that if a merger with AA does not happen then US will have to come up with yet another competitive response to industry conditions. It is naive to think US will stand idly by and wait to be liquidated. It will take many twists and turns but US and the valuable slots will be utilized in some capacity whether through merger or asset sales to increase value. The outright liquidation scenario is one that only those outside the industry see as happening. If US was going to shut down it would have already done so.

Signals, I am not sure what your beef is. Maybe you were fired by USAirways or something.

Another one!

First, US has been talking mergers since that last abortion in 2005. They're gonna merge with this one and that one, yet always come up empty handed. Again the song remains the same and this time the "wolf" is really there. It gets old, and history repeats itself. Apparently, management is the cause of your problems as they build you up with merger talk, only to watch you come crashing down. Go hang out at your own pilot thread and see what brotherly love goes on.

Bottom line-the judge hasn't pounded the gavel, and everything is just an assumption. The sad thing is that if you merge, you can't hold anything on me, because it was bound to happen after all the past failures. If it doesn't happen, US will be the joke of the airline industry.

Maybe you should talk to wingie to see that my 'beef' isn't job related. See previous posts.

 

[johnny kat]

Signals, why all the venom and hateful emotion in your posts toward US? The management team at USAirways is doing exactly what they should be doing to enhance shareholder value and to better the employees. You keep posting hot air and little fact. US stock price is rising for a variety of reasons that are well known to those who read what analysts are saying. US is not a failing company by any stretch. I am not a US koolaid drinker or cheerleader but the facts are the facts. US is doing the best they can do with what they have to work with. Maybe, if AA's management had been doing that all along then they would not be in the current situation. If a merger does not happen then so be it. But once again the facts are the facts and you can't argue with logic. Why should AA sit out consolidation just to have to refile for BK later?

 

[Flying low]

I still want to know what US AIR has promised the unions at AA. I haven't seen anything that makes me want to say yes.

 

[johnny kat]

Flying low

I still want to know what US AIR has promised the unions at AA. I haven't seen anything that makes me want to say yes. I still want to know what US AIR has promised the unions at AA. I haven't seen anything that makes me want to say yes.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have seen the term sheet offered to the F/A's. IMHO it looks like a better outcome for them that what current AA management has in store. I can't predict the future but with all the strife between AA and APFA it looks doubtful that current AA management is going to offer any better terms. Having said that US still has to comes to terms with its' current F/A corps.

 

[Duke787]

The simple fact of the matter is, USair can't come to an agreement with it's own pilots or FA's, and people thinking that throwing in AA's pilot's and FA's is going to make a USair and AA a synergetic utopia is fooling themselves. USair is "promising" a better contract, until there is a signed agreement I believe nothing from USair. Look what USair wants to do, merge while AA is in BK, so they don't have to honor a snap back clause to their employees. And who thinks that USair pilots won't use all legal means AGAIN to keep down pilots from other airlines, further dragging down any advantage a merger might bring.

I'm sure the employees at TWA thought that Icahn was going to lead them into prosperity, I hope that pushing for Parker won't be the same mistake.

For the guy who gets upset when the proper USairways isn't used, this USair is for you. 😉

 

[BonTemps]

I still want to know what US AIR has promised the unions at AA. I haven't seen anything that makes me want to say yes.

Well could be the dress code LOL...I believe their nonrev dress code is similar to Southwest-Shorts and Tshirts allowed. Maybe US Agents don't kick off the nonrev list the nicely dressed couple that happen to be wearing Affliction tshirts and give their seat to the nonrev in dirty jeans and a wrinkled "collared" shirt that looks and smells like he got it out of the 2 week old gym laundry bag.

(Partially joking and partially not BTW)

 

[johnny kat]

Duke787

The simple fact of the matter is, USair can't come to an agreement with it's own pilots or FA's, and people thinking that throwing in AA's pilot's and FA's is going to make a USair and AA a synergetic utopia is fooling themselves. USair is "promising" a better contract, until there is a signed agreement I believe nothing from USair. Look what USair wants to do, merge while AA is in BK, so they don't have to honor a snap back clause to their employees. And who thinks that USair pilots won't use all legal means AGAIN to keep down pilots from other airlines, further dragging down any advantage a merger might bring.
I'm sure the employees at TWA thought that Icahn was going to lead them into prosperity, I hope that pushing for Parker won't be the same mistake.

For the guy who gets upset when the proper USairways isn't used, this USair is for you. 😉
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I get what you are saying and I am not trying to defend the lack of a contract since US/AWA merger. But there are just a couple of things I would like to add:

The pilot situation at US has been taken by the courts and thus US management's hands are tied and they would be foolish to take any side.

The F/A's contract term was not up until Jan. 2012. US was well in their legal rights to not make any agreement until the terms of the BK contract were up. Q. Did the US F/A's want a T/A agreement before then? Ans. HELL YES! But a legal agreement is still binding (beware a 6 year BK contract).

The pilots' at US will have to determine what is in their best interests within the law. Both AA and US pilots unions will have to have a frank talk and a honest vote.

What snap back clause are you referring to? LOA has already been decided and F/A's snap back already occurred in Jan/2012.

As for prosperity, does anyone think it can be achieved by carrying out business as usual in this sucky industry...Maybe a different approach is necessary. What do you think?

US, US AIR (with the pregnant "A"), Allegheny, PSA, Piedmont, Empire, Mohawk, Lake Central, America West, hummm, Who else? oh the Eastern Shuttle/Trump. These are still employees at the current USAirways who are still in dedicated service and trying to succeed. So you see, US still has the "Warrior Spirit" engrained. So, the name USAirways really does mean the entire US continent and loyal and faithful employees who are dedicated to succeeding. Time after time the employees at US have delivered even if management has not. And that is the secret to any success at US. So you can say all you want about US management but you cannot say anything negative about the great employees at US. All the other airlines should be so lucky to have USAirway's fine employees. And that is how I truly feel about all of this and I am competent my coworkers will deliver in any event, merger or not. We love what we do or we would not be putting up with all this B/S because of the industry's lousy fundamentals. Good luck to all of the American Airlines employees, I hope you are as dedicated to success.

 

[signals]

Duke787

The simple fact of the matter is, USair can't come to an agreement with it's own pilots or FA's, and people thinking that throwing in AA's pilot's and FA's is going to make a USair and AA a synergetic utopia is fooling themselves. USair is "promising" a better contract, until there is a signed agreement I believe nothing from USair. Look what USair wants to do, merge while AA is in BK, so they don't have to honor a snap back clause to their employees. And who thinks that USair pilots won't use all legal means AGAIN to keep down pilots from other airlines, further dragging down any advantage a merger might bring.
I'm sure the employees at TWA thought that Icahn was going to lead them into prosperity, I hope that pushing for Parker won't be the same mistake.

For the guy who gets upset when the proper USairways isn't used, this USair is for you. 😉
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I get what you are saying and I am not trying to defend the lack of a contract since US/AWA merger. But there are just a couple of things I would like to add:

The pilot situation at US has been taken by the courts and thus US management's hands are tied and they would be foolish to take any side.

The F/A's contract term was not up until Jan. 2012. US was well in their legal rights to not make any agreement until the terms of the BK contract were up. Q. Did the US F/A's want a T/A agreement before then? Ans. HELL YES! But a legal agreement is still binding (beware a 6 year BK contract).

The pilots' at US will have to determine what is in their best interests within the law. Both AA and US pilots unions will have to have a frank talk and a honest vote.

What snap back clause are you referring to? LOA has already been decided and F/A's snap back already occurred in Jan/2012.

As for prosperity, does anyone think it can be achieved by carrying out business as usual in this sucky industry...Maybe a different approach is necessary. What do you think?

US, US AIR (with the pregnant "A"), Allegheny, PSA, Piedmont, Empire, Mohawk, Lake Central, America West, hummm, Who else? oh the Eastern Shuttle/Trump. These are still employees at the current USAirways who are still in dedicated service and trying to succeed. So you see, US still has the "Warrior Spirit" engrained. So, the name USAirways really does mean the entire US continent and loyal and faithful employees who are dedicated to succeeding. Time after time the employees at US have delivered even if management has not. And that is the secret to any success at US. So you can say all you want about US management but you cannot say anything negative about the great employees at US. All the other airlines should be so lucky to have USAirway's fine employees. And that is how I truly feel about all of this and I am competent my coworkers will deliver in any event, merger or not. We love what we do or we would not be putting up with all this B/S because of the industry's lousy fundamentals. Good luck to all of the American Airlines employees, I hope you are as dedicated to success.

Keep fiddling, Nero, because Rome is burning.

 

[Duke787]

Well some positive news about USairways, if we all become a huge dysfunctional family.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-airways-named-one-arizonas-200500355.html

 

[mike33]

The simple fact of the matter is, USair can't come to an agreement with it's own pilots or FA's, and people thinking that throwing in AA's pilot's and FA's is going to make a USair and AA a synergetic utopia is fooling themselves. USair is "promising" a better contract, until there is a signed agreement I believe nothing from USair. Look what USair wants to do, merge while AA is in BK, so they don't have to honor a snap back clause to their employees. And who thinks that USair pilots won't use all legal means AGAIN to keep down pilots from other airlines, further dragging down any advantage a merger might bring.

Do you even know how the Pilot debacle came about?..it was about being outnumbered !!....AA outnumbers US so that theory of not coming together doesn't hold water..

 

[Duke787]

Do you even know how the Pilot debacle came about?..it was about being outnumbered !!....AA outnumbers US so that theory of not coming together doesn't hold water..

The US pilots didn't like the outcome from the arbitrator, formed it's union to put the AW pilots either into the FO seat or to the street. What makes you think AA's pilots are going to be any less tough about the US pilots, you should see what they did to the TWA pilots.

 

[700UW]

The west CBA for the flight attendants has been amendable for years, and they were parked in negotiations to try and achieve a single CBA with east and west.