USAPA/ALPA US Pilot Labor Thread 5/10-5/17

[luvn737s]

Believe me, there will be no free representation. Think about it.

And the whole lunchroom went "Ooooooh!"

 

[commuter]

are you sure about that? I haven't paid any dues and don't intend on paying dues. Haven't met a single west pilot who has paid any dues for that matter. No complaints, or contact of any kind, from USAPA. Good luck getting 1 let alone 1700 of us fired.....

Hi Barberpole,

Yes, I am sure of that. By law, all pilots must join the union and pay dues associated with their representation. If they fail to pay their dues the result is discharge. The law is very clear and it falls under labor law and the RLA.

Do I think US Airways will fire 1800 pilots? Though US Airways could be forced to that point, I doubt that would be the goal of USAPA or any other airline union. A union is, by law, required to represent its members. To do so requires income. By law each pilot must be represented and by law each pilot must pay for that representation. If a large number of pilots refuse to pay union shop fees that I would imagine you we will witness a few high profile examples of discharge and very quickly, the other non-paying pilots will become current. .......it's not worth losing your job over.

A union shop requires employees to join the union within a specified period of time and remain members "in good standing." Thus, an employee need not be a member of the union to be hired. (The so-called closed shop, which required an employee to be a member of the union in order to be hired, was outlawed by the enactment of the Taft-Hartley amendments in 1947.) As a condition of continued employment, however, the employee must join the union within a designated period -- 30 days for industry generally, 60 days for railroad and airline employees, and 7 days for construction work. Under the law, the requirement to "join a union" and to remain a member "in good standing" under a union shop clause has largely meant that the employee must tender regular dues and initiation fees.

An employee who refuses to voluntarily join the union or to pay dues under a union security agreement must be discharged upon the union's request to the employer. Nonetheless, an employee who offers to pay dues and the appropriate fees but is denied union membership for any reason has satisfied the prerequisites of the law under a union shop proviso. Such an employee cannot be discharged because of his or her non-membership in the union.

In NLRB v General Motors Corp., the Supreme Court defined the extent of union membership that could be required under union shop agreements.5 The Court held that the law in Section 8(a)(3), allowing the employer and the union to condition continued employment of the employee on union membership, was limited to requiring the payment of union membership fees. Thus an employee who pays union fees as a non-member is entitled to keep his or her job as if he or she were a full member. So long as union fees are paid, the employee cannot be discharged for any other union-imposed obligation. The only obligation for membership that can be placed upon an employee under Section 8(a)(3) is financial membership. The Court held that the term "membership" is, at its core, financial support of a union.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

And the whole lunchroom went "Ooooooh!"

Whatever. Tell everybody I said hi then.

 

[commuter]

They are represented by USAPA, but are apparently choosing to not participate.

And they can certainly do that. I guess it's a form of protest, albeit an ineffective one. As a U.S. citizen you enjoy certain rights and protections but no one says you have to vote. ......but see what happens if you don't pay your taxes.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

The law is quite specific regarding collection of agency fees by a new union. Sorry to disappoint, but you will not see much coming from the west until you deliver a contract, which, will probably never happen in the near future. Enjoy your contract.

I will enjoy it. Well, I guess we'll get to test that law of yours. Good luck.

 

[commuter]

Yes, but it's not that simple. We formed usapa to impose doh on the west. The west obviously, doesn't like that, since they went to arbitration, and were ratioed. A basic relative integration. Our east airline is much older, so we expected to be senior to the younger pilots. Well, the west refuses to join usapa now, stating that, we are only using our majority to screw them. They claim that, I think, 90% of them would be stapled to the bottom, when we impose doh. We will try to get them fired, if they don't join.

Who are you dude? I hope you are not an east pilot.............

 

[ableoneable]

Hi Barberpole,

Yes, I am sure of that. By law, all pilots must join the union and pay dues associated with their representation. If they fail to pay their dues the result is discharge. The law is very clear and it falls under labor law and the RLA.

Really!

All pilots must join.

So you had no ALPA non members at USAir east.

I know of several pilots who were not ALPA members for decades at HP. I guess America West just operated outside of the law that you know so well.

Just keep making stuff up and presenting it as fact.

You keep undermining yourself. You have ZERO credibility.

 

[prechilill]

Who are you dude? I hope you are not an east pilot.............

You guys are the only ones who have 20 year fo's- everyone else in the industry has upgraded by that point.

 

[prechilill]

Please keep believing that. Just because your attorney du jour wrote a letter saying past practice of other unions had the same policy you espouse, guess what? We're not other unions. In fact the past egregious behavior of ALPA is the reason why the policy has changed toward dues scofflaws. Believe me, there will be no free representation. Think about it.

Why hasn't your union issued any direction on this matter? What is Seaham saying? Silence says alot. Enjoy your contract.

 

[mikey60]

as a matter of fact a east coast pilot is fighting dismissal for non payment of union dues

 

[commuter]

Not quite how it works; as of April 17th, the new bargaining agent for US Airways pilots became USAPA. Your contract remains in effect and all you have to do is exchange USAPA wherever you read ALPA. Agreements in effect remain unchanged. East and West pilots still work under two contracts and ops remain separated. What is changed is moving on from this point forward, as USAPA is now charged with negotiating a joint contract, seniority list integration, etc.

 

[prechilill]

[What is changed is moving on from this point forward, as USAPA is now charged with negotiating a joint contract, seniority list integration, etc.

Ummm, the seniority integration under ALPA is completed- it is called the Nicolau award. Maybe you can make something else up that is a little more realistic...

 

[oldiebutgoody]

The fact that ALPA was less than agressive at collecting dues was their fault. The other dues paying members just picked up the slack. Also, all you had to do was contact them and set up a recovery plan. It could have been practically anything, and ALPA would embrace you with open arms. Just more proof that they are seriously mismanaged (ALPA, that is). I bet that it's about to change, with their new financial issues!

And, by the way, ALPA seniority is DEAD, just like the Nic!

 

[commuter]

Less than 703 days until the next representation election.

I think you need 50% plus 1 to move forward with an election..........it may be longer than 703 days don't you think?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

USAPA Update For Wednesday, May 14th, 2008


The Board of Pilot Representatives (BPR) continued their meeting in CLT completing day two of a scheduled three day BPR meeting. The meeting is taking place at the Marriott Charlotte Executive Park, 5700 Westpark Drive, Charlotte, NC. For free transportation from the airport call 704-527-9650. The meeting will convene tomorrow at 8:30 am and will adjourn at 5:00 pm or at the close of business. All USAPA members are invited to attend.

The meeting convened today at 9:00 am with several candidates interviewing for positions on the Negotiating Advisory Committee, followed by a series of Committee reports.

Scheduling Committee Chairman Steve Smyser briefed the BPR on scheduling issues both East and West. Steve indicated that he is building the Committee and will assign Committee members for scheduling issues inside specific bases. He stated functions such as East line construction continue to progress normally. West functions, including pairing review entails somewhat of a learning curve when West Pilots call with questions. The Scheduling Committee continues to seek West Committee members who are willing to assist West pilots with their scheduling needs.

Grievance Committee Member Dennis Brennan briefed the BPR on several on-going disciplinary cases followed by a briefing from Safety Committee Chairman Tom Kubik. Captain Kubik spoke of the Safety and Training Committee structure, staffing and issues which included the ASAP program here at US Airways. Safety Committee Member Doug Hoesch also briefed the BPR on a meeting he attended in Washington DC concerning ASAP programs industry-wide. The meeting in Washington was well-attended by Safety professionals from many airlines and different ASAP programs were discussed, as was the commonality of these programs relating to a “Just Culture†creating a safe environment.

Our Safety Committee continues to talk with management regarding our own ASAP program and “Just Culture.†As we seek to make the necessary improvements to our program which are happening industry-wide, our ASAP program is still in effect utilizing a 120 day extension. The Safety Committee recommends all pilots to file both an ASAP and a NASA report when appropriate.

Training Committee Chairman Rand Clark briefed the Board on the positive communication his committee has had with the Company. Various training issues were discussed, including the prevalent non-paired crew problem in the overloaded E190 program. The Training Committee is addressing this re-occurring issue. Captain Clark then discussed Training Committee efforts to enlist West pilots so as to address training concerns in the West. Initially he met with a very positive response; however Captain Clark now reports that all West participation in the Training Committee has been withdrawn. He commented that for the benefit of all, but primarily West pilots, he remains hopeful that the situation will change over time.

Communications Chairman Scott Theuer briefed the BPR on Communications including EIS (electronic information system) issues. Captain Theuer focused on USAPA’s current web site and the Committee’s plans for a new site with much enhanced capabilities. He also described the new USAPA Communications tool called the “Weekly Wrap-Up,†which is a weekly compilation of USAPA correspondence that will be posted on all domicile bulletin boards. Captain Theuer also touched on our new lanyard design and introduced the new P4P Committee Chairman Todd Fieser.

Captain Fieser gave the BPR a short overview of P4P goals which included not only getting information out to the pilots, but also the importance of returning feedback from the pilots to the BPR.

Communications Vice Chairman Arnie Gentile then briefed the BPR on the Communications Committee’s structure, the vehicles and tools used to get USAPA’s message out, domicile communications and USAPA internal communications.

During the course of the day, the Board discussed the likelihood of industry consolidation and the need for Merger Counsel. A resolution was brought forward directing the Officers and the Merger Committee to research Merger Counsel candidates along with other outside resources, and bring a final selection to the Board for approval at their earliest opportunity. The motion passed unanimously.

The Board also addressed an agenda item which was the subject of the union security clause (Agency Shop). As all US Airways pilots are subject to a contractual union security clause (Agency Shop), and desiring to maintain a clear and unambiguous policy concerning the dues obligations of all Pilots, the board decided by unanimous resolution to approve an Agency Fee Policy. This Policy is posted on the USAPA web site along with the two resolutions passed today.

To reiterate, the meeting will reconvene tomorrow at 8:30 am and will adjourn at 5:00 am or at the close of business. All USAPA members are invited to attend.