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USAPA/ALPA US Pilot Labor Thread 5/10-5/17

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And, by the way, ALPA seniority is DEAD, just like the Nic!

Ahh, another well thought out, incisive response.

To summarize your position:

1. USAPA inherits the two CBAs and even though the agency shop provisions specifically mention ALPA they are applicable to USAPA.

2. The ASAP and FOQA agreements are not inherited, but that is "different."

3. USAPA inherits everything, well except for the arbitrated seniority list, because that is also "different."

4. All of the above positions are logical, consistent, impervious to legal challenges and fair.

5. USAPAs positions and findings of fact are subject to change without notice.

6. The jumpseat committee will get to the bottom of offline airlines refusing jumpseats to USAir pilots who do not posses an ALPA membership card with an AWA i.d.

7. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
 
Ummm, the seniority integration under ALPA is completed- it is called the Nicolau award. Maybe you can make something else up that is a little more realistic...

The Nicolau award was to be part of a joint contract negotiated under ALPA. Last I checked, there was no joint contract and anything on the table, whether it was pay rates, vacation, seniority integration list, etc., is no longer there. The company and USAPA can agree to pick up some of the agreed upon items and move forward or they can elect to renegotiate.

Again, prechilill, it is only items that are in effect, not items on the table. Had we voted and approved a joint contract which embodied the Nicolau award then those two would remain in effect. As you can see, we have neither.

You guys are making this harder than it needs to be...........
 
Why hasn't your union issued any direction on this matter? What is Seaham saying? Silence says alot. Enjoy your contract.
I guess they are waiting for the 60 days to expire and see becomes a member. There has been enough information posted through various venues for individuals to make a decision. I also believe you received a mailing from USAPA not too long ago. Seems to me the west posters were bragging as to what they did with it. Sorry we won't waste our dues money repeating ourselves. Check the website if you really want to learn something. Or better yet, there are many e-mail addresses of the leadership now available to ask your questions.

Finally, why do you need direction from USAPA. And you call us sheep? If I wanted to learn something, I would ask questions of the leadership. Try it sometime, or do you want to be led? What does that sound like?

Oh yea, I am enjoying my contract. If I were you I might consider checking it out. You just might find yourself on it if we remain divided like we are. Whether you like it or not, we will be paid the same, one way or the other. :lol:
 
Why hasn't your union issued any direction on this matter? What is Seaham saying? Silence says alot. Enjoy your contract.

Here is the direction you requested prechilill:

TO: ALL PILOTS EMPLOYED BY U.S. AIRWAYS
FROM: USAPA, SECRETARY/TREASURER
SUBJECT: NOTICE TO AGENCY FEE PAYERS
DATE: MAY 2008

Please take notice of the following:

§ 1) USAPA Membership Is Voluntary, But Non-Members Must Pay Their Fair Share:


Membership in the US Airline Pilots Association (“USAPA”) is strictly voluntary. (USAPA
Constitution Art. II, § 1 A 4). The many rights and privileges of membership are delineated in
Article II of the “Constitution And Bylaws of U.S. Airline Pilots Association.” The Association
welcomes all qualified US Airways Pilots to membership.

However, consistent with federal law, and as authorized in Union Security agreements with
employers, USAPA seeks to ensure that non-members shall pay their fair share of the union's
costs of performing the function of exclusive bargaining agent, thus eliminating ‘free rider’
employees on whose behalf the union was obliged to perform its statutory functions, but who
refused to contribute to the cost thereof.

§ 2) USAPA Is A Successor To Labor Agreements Containing Agency Shop Requirements:


Following a representation election, USAPA was certified by the National Mediation Board to
represent the craft or class of Pilots at US Airways, Inc. on April 18, 2008 (35 NMB No. 37). By
operation of law, USAPA became a successor union to collective bargaining agreements
between US Airways and ALPA under both the US Airways and America West Airlines, Inc.
contracts. Pursuant to the Railway Labor Act, 45 U.S.C. 152, Eleventh, and § 29 of both
contracts, as a “condition of continued employment,” Pilots are required to maintain union
“membership,” meaning that US Airways Pilots must either satisfy the obligations of
membership or satisfy the financial obligations lawfully imposed on non-members. (Section 29,
“Agency Shop And Dues Checkoff,” of both contracts is attached hereto as Appendix A).

§ 3) Pilots Who Decline Union Membership, Or Who Resign From It, Are Obligated To
Pay Agency Fees As A Condition Of Continued Employment:


Pilots covered by the labor agreements referenced in ¶ 2 herein above who decline union
membership or resign from it are required to pay monthly agency fees in lieu of membership
dues, pursuant to § 29 of each contract (See Appendix A), or under any newly ratified contract
containing an Agency Shop provision.

§ 4) Procedure For Non-Member Agency Fee Payers To File As An Objector:


Within the category of Agency Fee Payer is a subcategory of those non-members who wish to
object to certain expenses that the courts hold may not be chargeable over their objections.
These non-member Agency Fee payers are known as “objectors” who pay a reduced amount (the
“germane” or “chargeable” percentage) based on a detailed calculation in accordance with the
requirements of federal law. The procedure for filing as an objector can be found in the
“USAPA Agency Fee Policy” attached hereto as Appendix B.

The amount chargeable to objectors shall be according to federal law. For the period from the
start of Fiscal Year 2008 (July 1, 2008), through the end of the Fiscal Year (June 30, 2009), the
amount charged objectors shall be eighty-five percent (85%) of the monthly membership dues
amount, subject to adjustment, up or down, based on the first year an audit of germane and nongermane
expenses is possible, if adjusted after arbitration.

Agency fee payers may use dues checkoff authorization to pay Agency Fees automatically (but
are not required to).

§ 5) Procedure For Non-Member Objectors To Challenge Agency Fee Calculation:

USAPA has adopted a system to hear and resolve Objector challenges to USAPA’s calculation
of the chargeable (germane) percentage. The challenge procedures, and the method for resolving
these challenges, are set forth separately in the “USAPA Agency Fee Policy.” Attached hereto
as Appendix b.

Non-members remain responsible for keeping USAPA apprised of their current address.
 
Why hasn't your union issued any direction on this matter? What is Seaham saying? Silence says alot. Enjoy your contract.

Here's a little more direction for ya, prechilill, .....passed by your union today:

AI 08-17 Agency Fee Policy

Motion McKee/Dugstad:

WHEREAS it is in the best interest of the pilot group that all US Airways Pilots become members of the Association, and

WHEREAS notwithstanding their membership status, all US Airways Pilots are bound by the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement regarding the union security clause outlined in Section 29 of the US Airways and America West Collective Bargaining Agreements, and

WHEREAS USAPA desires to maintain a clear and unambiguous policy regarding the obligations of all Pilots in this regard,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Board of Pilot Representatives approves the attached Agency Fee Policy dated May 2008.
 
To summarize your position:

1. thru 5.

6. The jumpseat committee will get to the bottom of offline airlines refusing jumpseats to USAir pilots who do not posses an ALPA membership card with an AWA i.d.
The first 5 is simple flame baiting. Enough said.

For item 6. Yes the jumpseat committee is checking into this. I just hope we don't lose the other carriers to the approved JS lists. Once it gets changed in the FOM, oh well. It would be a shame wouldn't it?
 
Really!

All pilots must join? So you had no ALPA non members at USAir east. I know of several pilots who were not ALPA members for decades at HP. I guess America West just operated outside of the law that you know so well.

Just keep making stuff up and presenting it as fact. You keep undermining yourself. You have ZERO credibility.

Ouch, you're not holding back any punches there ableoneable. :down: I don't think that was necessary.

Those pilots you cite are objectors or non-member fee payers - they pay a reduced amount allowed under federal law. Don't confuse an objector or non-member agency fee payer with someone getting out of paying dues - it doesn't happen.

Procedure For Non-Member Agency Fee Payers To File As An Objector:

Within the category of Agency Fee Payer is a subcategory of those non-members who wish to
object to certain expenses that the courts hold may not be chargeable over their objections.
These non-member Agency Fee payers are known as “objectors” who pay a reduced amount (the
“germane” or “chargeable” percentage) based on a detailed calculation in accordance with the
requirements of federal law. The procedure for filing as an objector can be found in the
“USAPA Agency Fee Policy” attached hereto as Appendix B.

The amount chargeable to objectors shall be according to federal law. For the period from the
start of Fiscal Year 2008 (July 1, 2008), through the end of the Fiscal Year (June 30, 2009), the
amount charged objectors shall be eighty-five percent (85%) of the monthly membership dues
amount, subject to adjustment, up or down, based on the first year an audit of germane and nongermane
expenses is possible, if adjusted after arbitration.
 
The first 5 is simple flame baiting. Enough said.

For item 6. Yes the jumpseat committee is checking into this. I just hope we don't lose the other carriers to the approved JS lists. Once it gets changed in the FOM, oh well. It would be a shame wouldn't it?

1. How are they flame bait. Please educate me. USAPA seems to follow a complex formula for determining which parts of the agreements are inherited and which parts are discarded.

The bottom line appears to be; "If it's advantageous to USAPA we inherit it, if it is not we discard it and re-negotiate.

2. So you are saying that because pilots at UAL, AMR etc are refusing to allow USAPA pilots to jump USAPA is going to attempt and nullify their JS agreements?
 
Ummm, the seniority integration under ALPA is completed- it is called the Nicolau award. Maybe you can make something else up that is a little more realistic...

Prechilill, if the seniority integration was completed it would be implemented. What the list will look like and how it is implemented remains to be seen. But if you take a look at this resolution that was passed unanimously by your union today, specifically, the last Be It Further Resolved, you will note that the Merger Committee is now charged with compiling a seniority list with appropriate conditions and protections. I see no reference to the Nicolau award you so often refer to. If you want to know how they will arrive at the list I would suggest researching the USAPA Constitution and By-Laws.


AI 08-10 Merger Committee Charge


Motion Koseruba/Henriksson:

WHEREAS airline industry consolidation is a reasonable probability,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Board of Pilot Representatives directs the Officers and Merger Committee to research Merger Counsel candidates, and to bring a final selection to the Board for approval at their earliest opportunity, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Board of Pilot Representatives directs the Officers and Merger Committee to research any additional professional resources they deem necessary, and to bring such requirements to the President and the Board for approval at their earliest opportunity, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Merger Committee be charged with the compilation of a current certified seniority list including recommendations to the Board of Pilot Representatives for appropriate conditions and restrictions.

Motion passes unanimously
 
Non-members remain responsible for keeping USAPA apprised of their current address.

Oh please tell me what statute mandates this.

USAPA is really a bad joke isn't it. No wonder the company is laughing their asses off at you guys.

I hear you are up to six terminations so far.

How long is USAPA going to fight to get the BDL pilots' their jobs back before they give up and move on to "more pressing matters."
 
2. So you are saying that because pilots at UAL, AMR etc are refusing to allow USAPA pilots to jump USAPA is going to attempt and nullify their JS agreements?
This isn't happening. You can try to convince yourself all you want, but it's not. Adult, mature pilots understand that this is a PRIVELEGE not to be trifled with.

As for the rest, think what YOU want. The tsunami is coming. ALPA is not on the property any longer, nor do I see it's return for the foreseeable future. Even if a merger takes place, both groups will ahve to agree on integration before an NMB election can take place. The ONLY reason it happened here was that BOTH sides were represented by ALPA, hence the "single representative" decision by the NMB. It won't occur like that if LCC merges with another carrier.
 
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