USAPA/ALPA US Pilot Labor Thread 5/10-5/17

[ableoneable]

The company doesn't pick anything. Reread what I posted about dues. It says the union initiates the procedures. Failure by the company to follow up just opens the door for USAPA to collect via other avenues.

So it is your belief that USAPA can pick and choose whom among the non dues paying members to initiate termination proceedings against?

Selective enforcement is a sure fire way to get slammed with a damages award.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

1. So they gave you a complete briefing.

2. No spin, just the facts.

3. Gullible.

4.BTW when USAPA puts out BS like this:
masquerading as "fact" it is no wonder that they are considered idiots.

1. Once again, read the post. I said it may not be complete but it's more than what you have.

2. Who knows. I wasn't there. Were you? So it could be spin. But if it was coming from a leader and not factually correct, well there are avenues available to address the leader.

3. Not really. I do know what I am talking about with respect to the BDL pilots. Embarrassing, but not permanent.

4. Whose gullible now? You believe everything put out on a public forum? My heart goes out to you. Why is it that every west pilot attributes an east poster as a USAPA leader? Just for your edification, I know all the leaders, and they have not been on this web board posting since coming out in the open as a new union. When was that? Back in May of last year? To my knowledge only one even reads this forum. But, I guess you can say that is why I am here though.

 

[nycbusdriver]

With respect to the non-payment situation. Why would the company be motivated to pick a few "loudmouths" and who would they pick.

This is not their fight. It is in managements best interest to keep both sides fighting. Because of this I expect them to do nothing to tip the balance one way or the other.

I agree that this is not the company's fight. But since all pilots have the choice to pay dues or germane fees either through check-off or directly, the company has no way of really knowing who pays USAPA and who doesn't. So, USAPA merely has to turn in those names it comes up with first.

Watch management continue to go out of their way to keep the odds 50/50. If east is up, help the west, if west is up, help the east.

You might be right, but when was either side in actuality up vs. the other? There have been a lot of theoretical "ups," but nothing in actual operation so far. And what has the company done with these theoretical "ups" except watch us fight among ourselves? There is little question that we are our own worst enemy and the only way I can see to ameliorate the situation is with a radical rethink on how pilots are paid.

 

[ableoneable]

3. Not really. I do know what I am talking about with respect to the BDL pilots. Embarrassing, but not permanent.

Were you there?

I was not but I did have an eyewitness on the J.S.

Missing a turn is not career threatening.

Trying to beat another AC to the ramp area and block it and in the process missing a taxiway is dangerous to your livelihood.

Compounding the error by trying to power the airplane out of the dirt instead of shutting it down is likely the end of the road for these two clowns.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

So it is your belief that USAPA can pick and choose whom among the non dues paying members to initiate termination proceedings against?

Selective enforcement is a sure fire way to get slammed with a damages award.

So long as the policy is administered the same way to all. East and West. Believe this, there are some east pilots going to receive the same letters. Just less of them since most have signed up for dues check off.

 

[ableoneable]

I agree that this is not the company's fight. But since all pilots have the choice to pay dues or germane fees either through check-off or directly, the company has no way of really knowing who pays USAPA and who doesn't. So, USAPA merely has to turn in those names it comes up with first.



You might be right, but when was either side in actuality up vs. the other? There have been a lot of theoretical "ups," but nothing in actual operation so far. And what has the company done with these theoretical "ups" except watch us fight among ourselves? There is little question that we are our own worst enemy and the only way I can see to ameliorate the situation is with a radical rethink on how pilots are paid.

If you are talking about a pay scale based on nothing but DOH/LOS we in the west already have that.

I have no problem with this type of payscale but it has disadvantages as well.


If you have a lot of widebodies you can get the overall rates up. You will end up with a payscale that pays above average for narrowbody and below average for widebody flying.

The problem is that if the company goes the other way, i.e. they add a lot of 190s but very few 330s the overall pay must go down slightly.

Not a problem if you are in the middle of the pack but the senior guys won't like it.

 

[ableoneable]

So long as the policy is administered the same way to all. East and West. Believe this, there are some east pilots going to receive the same letters. Just less of them since most have signed up for dues check off.

Maybe you are not getting exactly what I am saying.

When I talk about selective enforcement I am not referencing east/west differences.

If 1800 west pilots refuse to pay dues and only twelve are threatened with termination, selective enforcement has occurred.

If I am one of the few I am certain that it is because I am black/female/Dominican and be prepared to get slammed hard in court.

The first thing management is going to ask USAPA is; "This list you gave us for dues termination is for everyone who is not paying, right? Because if you are only targeting some and not others we are way exposed to litigation."

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Compounding the error by trying to power the airplane out of the dirt instead of shutting it down is likely the end of the road for these two clowns.

Like I said embarrassing, not permanent. My best guess, time off for the both. Maybe even a downgrade for one. But what do I know? I have seen a lot worse than this. And those pilots are still working.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Maybe you are not getting exactly what I am saying.

When I talk about selective enforcement I am not referencing east/west differences.

If 1800 west pilots refuse to pay dues and only twelve are threatened with termination, selective enforcement has occurred.

If I am one of the few I am certain that it is because I am black/female/Dominican and be prepared to get slammed hard in court.

I get exactly what you're saying. You can only work through a list so fast. Say maybe one or two a day until all delinquencies are addressed. Not sure how it may start. How about a bingo cage and just randomly pull names? In reality, probably start with who owes the most and go from there. What do you think? Fair enough?

 

[ableoneable]

I get exactly what you're saying. You can only work through a list so fast. Say maybe one or two a day until all delinquencies are addressed. Not sure how it may start. How about a bingo cage and just randomly pull names? In reality, probably start with who owes the most and go from there. What do you think? Fair enough?

Since the clock started for everyone at the same time everyone is going to owe about the same amount.

The second the first guy is terminated and someone else is still working who has not paid dues both the company and USAPA are in deep coleslaw. USAPA is probably stupid enough to go there but I doubt management will join them on their march to Valhalla.

 

[ableoneable]

Like I said embarrassing, not permanent. My best guess, time off for the both. Maybe even a downgrade for one. But what do I know? I have seen a lot worse than this. And those pilots are still working.

Wow,

You have seen worse and they are still working. Confidence inspiring.

 

[700UW]

Gee, why wont any of you respond to the the established fact that if the West CBA is ALPA specific for DCO that they dont have to pay?

Case precedence all ready set by NW and PFAA, which Seeham represented the PFAA and LOST!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Since the clock started for everyone at the same time everyone is going to owe about the same amount.

Geez. Well then maybe a penny's difference then. Just so long as it applies to all.

The second the first guy is terminated and someone else is still working who has not paid dues both the company and USAPA are in deep coleslaw. USAPA is probably stupid enough to go there but I doubt management will join them on their march to Valhalla.

That's what I love about you guys. Never give up, never give in. OK OK You believe what you want and have fun in court. The methodology will not lead to your conclusions.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Wow,

You have seen worse and they are still working. Confidence inspiring.

It should be, they won't do it again.

 

[nostradamus]

Why hasn't your union issued any direction on this matter? What is Seaham saying? Silence says alot. Enjoy your contract.

prechilill
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Posted on: Sep 20 2007, 01:23 PM


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QUOTE(AAA73Pilot @ Sep 20 2007, 07:04 PM) *
Our only concern and plan of action is to seek a certification election. That is the only area in our scope and responsibility at the moment. BTW. Nice try. Next!


Your embryonic "union" should have quite a few concerns right now, not just one. Of course, most of you can't look past tomorrow, let alone execute a plan of birthing a new union so I can understand why you only think USAPA has one concern at the moment. Your statement is just another piece of evidence why your latest splinter group venture will never materialize.