At the risk of offending someone other than Blackmac, who we know will take offense, regardless, it sounds to me like we've got an 'apples to oranges' discussion going again, if not plain semantics problems. Surely no-one disputes that, with enough power, we can handle any damned thing and technique be damned. When we're marginal for power, however, (it does stilll happen once in a blue moon, doesn't it?) technique is certainly going to matter - 'little' things like avoiding vortex ring come to mind. Aren't we into the difference betweetn horseing a log off the hill and finessing it? B)