Please explain how coming to work everyday and doing ones job for an agreed upon wage signed by both parties qualifies as an entitlement. Entitlement is a term you labeled unions with which is totally unjustified, unless you can explain why it isn't and why you are right and I am wrong. Please Explain, PLEASE.4merresrat said:
Us Airways Debt To Be Rated Junk Soon?
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4merresrat
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- Apr 3, 2003
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Cavalier, I was just adressing Too Much Time's rage against me. I don't necessarily believe anyone who is pro union is pro entitlement. I was just stating that anyone who is not FOR this seems to get a lot of anger directed at them from the posters. Of course I don't believe people who come to work and do the job for a fare wage are getting an entitlement. But, like I have said before, when I worked in res. I saw MAJOR FMLA abuse-up to 75% of the office and they used it as write your own VTO. I saw examples at the ATO, people who couldn't hold a clipboard because of carpal tunnel but then got caught wielding a week wacker at home. I could go on and on. I saw major abuse of the system, Im sorry but I did. And I do believe this, " how can we live on such and such a wage, we are at the poverty level etc etc." is ridiculous. When I worked in res, I KNEW I was being payed a lot, I will even say too much for what we did. I am not saying it was not an important job (so the attacks will not start) but I think we were VERY well compensated. And I know after people in MCO res were furloughed-life on the outside has not been easy-I know everyone says Oh, I have a masters degree, I will not have any problems if U goes under etc. But that has not been the reality I have seen, i have seen people facing the reality of 8-10 dollars an hour, and it's tough. I believe people that are making 20 an hour for customer service, even if they make 13 an hour, that is still a fair wage. I hope you respect my opinion.cavalier said:
USA320Pilot
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Piney:
I believe the comments in your last post are correct and valid.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
I believe the comments in your last post are correct and valid.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
Yes I respect your opinion and what you said made sense. But why were you using the term Entitlement in the first place, who is entitled, who were talking about?4merresrat said:
Maybe it was a poor choice of terminology.
As far as a Masters Degree. My son has one and he isn't looking at those kinds of wages, in his field anyway, more like starting at 60 to 70 grand yearly. So I don't know what kind of masters degree you were referring to.
But I do agree without a trade or college it's a tough world and #### making it.
People who have worked at U for years on end making those kinds of wages can't really be yelled at for not going to college, because there is a thing called human nature, and human nature dictates the path of least resistance, it's a natural thing to do unless one has a real pushy spouse or was raised and nurtured to improve and never stop improving, but how many kids are raised like that anymore!
That’s why foreigners make it in this country because they never had it easy, easy ruins a person, hence the U employees plight. They had it easy but now times have changed, and times change way easier than the person who lived those times.
I can’t stand the self righteous posters coming on here telling the U employees it’s all their fault and they should have gone to college. Example: I work with a guy like myself who doesn’t have 20 more years to go. He worked in the mills and made good money there and now here as utility making good money which is about to end. He worked and he worked his hind end off most of his life through two marriages, two houses, many kids on and on working tons of overtime. Now things have changed and he is no longer young. So how can someone say, oh just go to college, or a two year trade school. He is older with less energy looking at winding down and NOT up. He is looking at $8 an hour jobs and bitching. Does he have a right to bitching? Some righteous posters who never walked in those kinds of shoes sure think this is all his fault.
Then people wonder why I would like to choke a few airheads on here who don’t even know what life is about because they always lived a life of privilege with good health, never had to worry about a broken down car, just buy a new one. These are the people I despise, because of their ignorant condescending attitudes.
Anyway. Best of luck to you whatever you end up doing with the rest of your life, because life at U, IMO anyway, is over.
4merresrat
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Yes, chock it up to a poor use of the word. I totally agree about the human nature thing, and the path of least resistance. And, I sympathize with the Utility worker, I really do. But my thing is that when people assume it is their inherent right to make such and such a wage, and they believe the company (U) "owes" them a living, or owes them a certain lifestyle, well that is where I have issues.cavalier said:
ELP_WN_Psgr
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- Nov 29, 2003
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What the company owes the employees is what the company agreed to pay those employees in a contract.
Having shrewd lawyers who are really clever and crafty and able to find loopholes in contracts that enables the company to legally subvert them does not make it right.
Employee abuse of certain aspects of the contract (medical absence, for example) is equally wrong but it does not render the contract null and void nor does it make violating the terms of the contract morally justifiable.
There used to be such a thing as one's word being one's bond. People said what they meant, and meant what they said.
People expecting what the company previously agreed to is not a "I am entitled to such and such" attitude.
Now, business conditions change. Maybe the company is having a bad time meeting the payroll the way the contracts are structure. If that is the case, then what the employees ARE entitled to is an honest, complete, and accurate accounting of what the company proposes to do about it. This includes number of employees, what their wages will be, work kept in house, work to be outsourced. The "three players and a draft pick to be named later" type of disclosure is wrong.
I've said it before but if any of the CCY set ever drag themselves off the golf course or in from their fancy dress-ip parties long enough to check out what people are saying about them on the internet.....it bears repeating. Failure of the management here to rapidly and wholeheartedly restructure the airline, with or without labor concessions, to meet new market realities appears to constitute malfeasance, not to mention just really really bad judgment on their part.
Oh and one last thing...it's sort of a trite cliche, but I keep it in my mind in everything I do. Your management would do well to embrace it. "People who do the right thing never have to worry about doing things right."
I think what you’re misreading is the posters are screaming NOT about something owed, but something signed in good faith. As we all know they want our pensions, seniority, cut our wages in half, raise medical to sky scrapper heights, and at the same time give bonuses and golden parachutes to anyone that breathes in the executive echelon.4merresrat said:
I don’t think that what you are reading for the most part is out of line, the employees just want what they bargained for, and NO one bargained for what’s being shoved down our throats.
Even outsiders when they find out where I work say that what is happening to the U employees should be illegal, and that is boarders on criminal what management is doing to us. I hear it all the time.
Then to come on here and read posts that management obviously writes strikes a nerve in a normal sane employee, and if it doesn’t then that employee is obviously brain washed and beyond all hope
RowUnderDCA
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What makes a post 'valid' or 'invalid?'USA320Pilot said:
4merresrat
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Cavalier, you said something in your post about "obviously written by management" , I have a hard time believing management comes on this board and pretends to be an interested 3rd party and posts for the company. I don't doubt that they might from time to time come here and read what the rank and file are saying (but not as much as some assume) but I find it hard to believe they pose as employees etc. Is that what you are saying, and if so, do you have any proof? And I agree, employees have a right to get what there contract is written for, however, if the company is going to go belly up, and the choice is a lower salary or no salary at all then what say you???
4merresrat
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Hmm, I'll check it out, maybe look up "Hawks" posts.cavalier said:
This reporter is clueless. BBB- is the minimum that a company can be rated and still be investment grade. CCC+ is deep into junk territory. Here is _part_ of the rating scale from better to worse:usair_begins_with_u said:
A-
BBB+
BBB
BBB- Not junk
-------------
BB+ Junk
BB
BB-
B+
B
B-
CCC+
US Airways is already deep deep junk.
